Lemon-Krumpitz
Cadet
Yeah. My mom jokes about it to. She says since she goes on all these Democratic websites they're probably watching her. Maybe they are...
AliasHombre
Cadet
Contrary to popular belief, to read things like e-mails or to tap phone lines, the government still needs a warrent from a judge.
Any hacker can see where you have been on the internet anyways, also, your ISP knows where you've been.
Several things also fall under the public domain under the freedom of information act.
Any hacker can see where you have been on the internet anyways, also, your ISP knows where you've been.
Several things also fall under the public domain under the freedom of information act.
the_alliance
Cadet
who the f*** cares? it's about time Americans are given a wake up call that our government is fascist! they have to ability to moniter everything we do. but that's doesn't really frighten me because that's what they want you to think.
Jamison
Cadet
AliasHombre said:
Umm...we were both joking (ie our moms joke about it). But just because something is 'illegal' doesn't mean they aren't doing it.
But they can pull library records and search your house without a warrant, under the Patriot Act...which is scary. And searching your house without a warrant is un-Constitutional...yet, they still do it.
AliasHombre
Cadet
Please provide an example.Jamison said:
Jamison
Cadet
AliasHombre said:
An example of what? Of someone being subject to one of these searches without a warrant? You can't find them. Why? Because the Patriot Act criminalizes such speech. Under the Patriot Act you can be thrown in jail for talking about what happened to you.
The FBI and Alberto Gonzales have readily admitted that they have used the controversial provisions to aprehend suspects. But you don't hear about the people who were wrongly accused, because they are not allowed to talk (and if they do the government flatly denies all claims...or could throw them in jail).
Here are the provisions (that have come under the most scrutiny) though...in case you don't think they exist.
-Section 213: Permits judges to delay notifying a person whose home or property has been searched by federal agents, when delayed notification is necessary to prevent destruction of evidence, intimidation of witnesses, or escape of suspects.
-Section 215: Which empowers a special court, under the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), to issue secret orders requiring businesses or institutions to turn over records concerning terrorists or foreign agents.
-Section 218: Which expands the number of cases in which intelligence data can be given to prosecutors investigating foreign intelligence activities.
-Section 505: Which expanded FBI agents’ powers to seize certain records using a “national security letter,” a kind of subpoena, without getting permission from a judge.
-Section 802: Which defines domestic terrorism.
The Patriot Act has also been used to justify 'outsourcing torture'. Which is when our government takes a person of interest into custody and sends them to another country (many of which actively promote torture) to get information out of them. A man this happened to, had no terrorist ties and was gone for several years.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/...ss_link?pg=full
AliasHombre
Cadet
Most of those expand the powers of judges, not rogue agents.
Besides, they aren't gonna come down your street.
Besides, they aren't gonna come down your street.
But thats exactly the point, now I understand exactly why governments want to extend anti-terrorism legislation, but things like this don't stop at terrorists. People get their identies taken or mixed up or its a mistake.
Look at the British guy who's name escapes me but I will try to find it, who was arrested by the FBI because they thought he was on their 10 most wanted list because the criminals alias was the same as his name. They held him for three weeks and even now refuse to apologise. And he was a British citizen not an American.
Or Yusef Islam, now he might have links with charities that have links with Hamas, but he's hardly a terrorist.
The point at which you allow your government to pass and use this kind of legislation is a slippery slope.
Why we need it in Britain I've know idea, we got through 30 years of IRA bombing campaigns and all of a sudden we need to hold people without trial?
rach
Look at the British guy who's name escapes me but I will try to find it, who was arrested by the FBI because they thought he was on their 10 most wanted list because the criminals alias was the same as his name. They held him for three weeks and even now refuse to apologise. And he was a British citizen not an American.
Or Yusef Islam, now he might have links with charities that have links with Hamas, but he's hardly a terrorist.
The point at which you allow your government to pass and use this kind of legislation is a slippery slope.
Why we need it in Britain I've know idea, we got through 30 years of IRA bombing campaigns and all of a sudden we need to hold people without trial?
rach
the_alliance
Cadet
there's this lady who was liberal in NC. she had anti-Bush posters such as "Bush, You're Fired!" on her lawn. one day, after she came back from the movies, her signs were vandalized. then as she was taking a nap, the Secret Service came to her house and claimed that she wanted to kill the President. She said that this was a false accusation and they forced her to allow them to search her house WITHOUT A WARRENT! if that's not the gov't reaching into people's lives, then what is?
Moonlite Star
Cadet
awful and scary.
has it been renewed? i haven't had time to check...i heard there was speculation about renewing it since it would expire, but not sure if it has been. anyone know?
has it been renewed? i haven't had time to check...i heard there was speculation about renewing it since it would expire, but not sure if it has been. anyone know?
Jamison
Cadet
Moonlite Star said:
I don't think it has to be renewed until the end of the year. But it's getting strong Republican backing in the House and Senate and since they are the majority, I'd imagine the provisions that are up for review (only 2 on the list I gave are up for review, I believe) will be renewed for another length of time.
the_alliance
Cadet
yeah and under the "No Child Left Behind" bill, the government can distribute student's home addresses and phone numbers to their affiliates. aka the military. i've had friends who have gotten calls from the military trying to recruit them. needless to say, some parents were a bit more than enraged.
Lemon-Krumpitz
Cadet
Man. I had no idea that was happening...
I cant believe the government can do that. Wait.... yes I can
AliasHombre
Cadet
I have gotten called by several branches of the Military and i told them to all take a hike becasu im going to college this fall. I dont know what the big deal is.
I dont think people know the extent of information avaliable w/o the patriot act. For example, in the county where i live in i can get on a website and look at who owns what property and what they paid for it and for a dollar i can find out even more information.
I dont think people know the extent of information avaliable w/o the patriot act. For example, in the county where i live in i can get on a website and look at who owns what property and what they paid for it and for a dollar i can find out even more information.
Jamison
Cadet
AliasHombre said:
You can do that in my county as well (as I would imagine in most counties across the country)...but I hardly find that scary. That's public record, you can go to city hall and find out the exact same information. And I doubt someone would use how much you paid for your house against you.
Something that is scary is typing your phone number (home phone) into a search engine (like googled) and see that it pulls up your parents names (or whoever owns the home) and a map with directions to your house (but then again you can look up a number in the phonebook and get that information...minus the maps).
The main point about the patriot act is that it allows for things that go against our constitution, that are sadly not only targeting terrorists.
the_alliance
Cadet
can it be? are you finding a fault with something that the Bush Administration was responsible for?AliasHombre said:
