Figure Skating

Michelle Kwan definitely deserved gold, I'm not a big fan of Sarah Hughes!

But I am a huge fan of :: Timothy Goeble...mmmm! I even got to meet him and the others from Champions on Ice...what a great day that was!
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I'm not too big a fan of Sarah Hughes either... I like Michelle Kwan... I like Sasha Cohen too, but she needs to be more consistant.

Timothy Goebel! He is a really good skater! I adore him... when you met him, was he nice? His name is interesting to me... 'cause I have an ex boyfriend named Timothy and his best friend's last name was Goebel!
 
I didn't think she really would be.

My friend skated in nationals a few years back... she met Michelle Kwan and Tara Lipinski... she said that Michelle was really nice, but Tara was a brat. Go figure! LoL
 
woohoo! i totally agree with you two! i LOVE michelle but despise sarah and tara (funny how their names rhyme).

it doesn't really matter anyway. because tara really was just a blip on the figure skating radar screen and i suspect sarah will be as well. michelle is here to stay. ^_^
 
i know, tara i think knows she is good and she seems very arrogant in that matter which would be just annoying! i love michelle kwan and someone posted earlier, sale and pelltier! it is a shame they went pro!

okay yes i love figure skating, i dont follow it obsessively but when i see it will be on i either watch it or tape it! its just gorgeous to watch and i tried it once for three years when i was in middle school but i had to choose between dance or figure skating and i chose dance!
but i can still do a couple simple moves i like to pull out when i go the rink!LOL!! which is basically a small turn, backwards skating and an arabasque!

and im not a big fan of sarah hughes either, i was rooting for michelle and still am!
 
i have a sort of funny michelle kwan story. so freshman year of college (i think, not sure), when michelle kwan was still attending ucla, i heard a story about one of the guys in my high school. he was the class clown and ended up attending ucla. i heard this story from my best friend who said that he ran into michelle kwan on campus (or had her in one of his classes, i can't remember which) and tried to hit on her with this pick-up line: "hey there... you know, i went to the same high school as kristi yamaguchi. ;)"

:lol: i just thought it was hilarious because i knew the guy and i know what a cheeseball he is.

(and, yes, it's true - kristi yamaguchi did go to our high school. although, not at the same time, of course. ;))
 
Existentialist said:
My favorite is pairs skating... though after the Olympics last year, I'm kinda sick of it. My favorite pairs team is actually the Russians who "unfairly" finished first. The Canadian team was really good... but they made it seem like they were out there just for the gold, that that's all that mattered. And that's not right, in my opinion. I mean, it's good to want to win and all that... but they skated beautifully and they knew it and most everyone else knew it too (including the Russians), so they should have just left it at that and not marred it by seeming "greedy" to the casual observer. Winning isn't everything... I believe it has more to do with personal satisfaction. If they know they did the best, why not just leave it at that?
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I totally disagree with you. :angry: Sorry. The Sale and Pelletier NEVER complained about the silver medal. They took it and smiled. The Canadian people were not even the ones who started the whole ball rolling re: the two gold medals... the American people were. I've met Jamie and David and they are the most gracious and kind skaters I've met (and I've met my share... I was competitive for 14 years :smiley:). They skated better than the Russians and were expecting to win because of that. They knew going into the program that the Russians had made a few mistakes, so when they skated a beautiful, clean program, they DID expect to win. That's why they were dismayed that they did not. They were never "greedy"!!!!!!! They never ever said that they wanted/neeeded/deserved the gold medal! Clearly, however, given the history of block judging and other forms of cheating in the sport, there was reason to be suspicious and to fight for the medal. And guess who faught? The americans. The candians. In fact, every country who sent a skater to the olympics was fighting for the Canadians except, of course, the Russians and the French - the two countries knee deep in the scandal. The Russians pair were very gracious, I must say, and didn't complain about having to share the gold medal... until they got back to Russia. They were quoted in a reliable russian paper as saying that they were the "true gold medalists" and that Jamie and David only won because of "sympathy and anger from the bitter Canadian and American people." I used to have so much respect for Anton and Elena, but I lost it all after reading that. One of my coaches (who is russian) confirmed what the paper had said; he was there to hear it with his own ears.

I am soo tired of scandals in figure skating. You see it in every competition, all the way down to pre-preliminary skaters. I've seen parents and coaches give judges flowers or baked goods or even money just to see their child come out on top. What's the point in competing if the results are predetermined?? I can't believe that ShaeLynn Bourne and Victor Kratz are still skating, given the number of times they've been shafted. Again... more block judging. :angry: EVen the freakin' ISU is crooked. (n) And apparently the French mafia are now invovled. I dunno why... but I find that amusing!

Anyway, that's my rant. I love skating, but I hate biased/fake judging. Until we can develop a system that prevents block judging, figure skating will never be a true sport and a great athlete can never truly win a gold medal, untainted.
 
QUOTE (Existentialist @ Jan 10 2003, 06:46 PM)

My favorite is pairs skating... though after the Olympics last year, I'm kinda sick of it. My favorite pairs team is actually the Russians who "unfairly" finished first. The Canadian team was really good... but they made it seem like they were out there just for the gold, that that's all that mattered. And that's not right, in my opinion. I mean, it's good to want to win and all that... but they skated beautifully and they knew it and most everyone else knew it too (including the Russians), so they should have just left it at that and not marred it by seeming "greedy" to the casual observer. Winning isn't everything... I believe it has more to do with personal satisfaction. If they know they did the best, why not just leave it at that? 

I totally disagree with you.  Sorry. The Sale and Pelletier NEVER complained about the silver medal. They took it and smiled. The Canadian people were not even the ones who started the whole ball rolling re: the two gold medals... the American people were. I've met Jamie and David and they are the most gracious and kind skaters I've met (and I've met my share... I was competitive for 14 years ). They skated better than the Russians and were expecting to win because of that. They knew going into the program that the Russians had made a few mistakes, so when they skated a beautiful, clean program, they DID expect to win. That's why they were dismayed that they did not. They were never "greedy"!!!!!!! They never ever said that they wanted/neeeded/deserved the gold medal! Clearly, however, given the history of block judging and other forms of cheating in the sport, there was reason to be suspicious and to fight for the medal. And guess who faught? The americans. The candians. In fact, every country who sent a skater to the olympics was fighting for the Canadians except, of course, the Russians and the French - the two countries knee deep in the scandal. The Russians pair were very gracious, I must say, and didn't complain about having to share the gold medal... until they got back to Russia. They were quoted in a reliable russian paper as saying that they were the "true gold medalists" and that Jamie and David only won because of "sympathy and anger from the bitter Canadian and American people." I used to have so much respect for Anton and Elena, but I lost it all after reading that. One of my coaches (who is russian) confirmed what the paper had said; he was there to hear it with his own ears.
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It's okay to disagree with me. But I do think that you kind of misread what I was trying to say. I didn't say that Sale and Pelletier actually complained about the silver metal... but, to the casual observer (ex: my sister, and lots of girls in my dorm), it seemed like they were greedy. Of course, in truth, those who actually took care and followed the whole judge scandal know that the canadian team was not greedy. I knew it. And it's not like I like biased/unfair/fake judging... in any sport ("my" sport is actually horseback riding... and it has it's share of biased judging too). Who does, really? Except those who benefit from it, of course... But it's so sick and gives the sports a bad name. Some people are so greedy and it's just disgusting. And PARENTS. Don't even get me started on some parents I've seen, both in equestrian and ice skating. They so ruin the sport for their kids. Ick. I mean, I placed 10th in a horse show class of 25 once... and my riding instructor told me to see it as a 5th place ribbon, 'cause she knew for a fact that the first five places were bribed, to win points to go on to other bigger shows.

Until we can develop a system that prevents block judging, figure skating will never be a true sport and a great athlete can never truly win a gold medal, untainted.
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I think that Michelle Kwan won her most recent Worlds tital untainted. Though her short program wasn't up to par, her long program was INCREDIBLE and I think she was heads above everyone else. The sad thing is, it doesn't happen very often. And people will always find ways to cheat in competition.
 
I agree that Michelle Kwan skated an amazing long program... and she did deserve to win; however, even in situations where it seems that the best person won, how can you be sure that they won because of the way they skated, or because the judges decided she would before the event? :thinking: I agree that women's and men's figure skating is RELATIVELY unbiased; however, pairs and dance is full of lying, cheating judges, skaters and unions.
Anyway, that's all I meant about the whole tainted medal thing. I've just seen soooo much cheating and lying in my sport, and I've become completely cynical because of it. Sorry if I offended you at all. That was not my intention. :blush:
 
well, i think every sport has their ugly side. it's just unfortunate that since figure skating is primarily viewed as such a beautiful, pure sport, the ugly side just seems ten times worse.

personally, i thought the canadians had been gypped (sp?) at the olympics with their silver medal. i remember im-ing with one of my friends while we were watching it and we just couldn't stop screaming. ;) i agree that the media hype didn't help them much. however, i think that jamie and david handled all of it brilliantly and with such grace.

and i remember watching some news footage a while later where they had interviewed each judge separately and asked them why they had chosen who they had chosen. it seemed that the main reason the judges that chose bereznaya/sikharudlize (okay, those names are too hard to spell) was because they believed that jamie and david's program was too "old." they had seen it before and anton and elena's (that's MUCH easier to spell) program was more fresh, so to speak.

but i completely disagree with that. yes, jamie and david's program wasn't new. but they skated it CLEANLY. i realize that having a clean performance shouldn't be the ONLY thing that determines whether you win a gold medal or not, but it should count for quite a lot, especially when the opposing pair skates a not-so-clean performance. and on top of that, their program had real fire and passion to it (in my opinion).

i think one of the biggest problems with this whole thing though is that figure skating is such a subjective sport. it's not like speed skating where you have a clock to measure your performance. you have real, live, completely fallible and biased people judging. and to the majority of people watching the olympics who weren't big figure skating fans, it seemed more intuitive that the team that messed up shouldn't win. (and it probably also helped that the canadians came off as more charming and friendly to the general north american population than the russians.)

ohmygod, this was a long post. i totally didn't mean for it to get this long. :blink:

anyway, i'm just glad everything worked out in the end. although i wish jamie and david would have stayed in competitive skating a bit longer. now that they AND anton and elena are gone, i don't really have much interest in pairs skating anymore. the only pair left that i really like are the chinese.
 
crazy spinster said:
and i remember watching some news footage a while later where they had interviewed each judge separately and asked them why they had chosen who they had chosen. it seemed that the main reason the judges that chose bereznaya/sikharudlize (okay, those names are too hard to spell) was because they believed that jamie and david's program was too "old." they had seen it before and anton and elena's (that's MUCH easier to spell) program was more fresh, so to speak.
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Actually, that was not the reason they chose the Russians. That's the reason they told the media, but it wasn't the true reason. Later, it was discovered that the french and russian figure skating federations had made a deal with respect to the outcomes of both the pairs and dance competition. Basically, if the Russian judge put the French ice dance team above the russian team in ice dance (thereby securing the French team a gold medal - and sadly the woman from the French team was involved in the scandal) then the French judge would put the Russians ahead of the Canadians in the pair, which would secure the gold medal for the Russian pair prior to the event. Very solid evidence of the entire scandal has been documented. There used to be a link to the case file from the ISU website... I'm not sure if it's still there.
Because of this scandal, the heads of the French and Russian federation were suspended for several years, and the French judge (who was at the centre of the scandal) in no longer eligable to judge in amateur competition.
Really then, it wouldn't matter what program Jamie and David had perfomed: old or new, they still would have got the silver medal.
 
but was this the reason that the OTHER judges (i.e., the non-french and non-russian judges) chose the russian pair? i don't think all the judges that voted for the russians were involved in this scandal. i could be mistaken though. so i was just saying that i disagreed with some of the other judges' reasons for choosing the russian pair. although i agree with you too, i think it was probably a scapegoat reason they gave the media.

and it was really unfortunate that anissina and peizerat (the french ice dance couple) had to get dragged into this whole ugly mess. because i think they won their medal fair and square but everyone was suspicious of them and it really wasn't their fault at all. in fact, THEY were also victims of a judging scandal during the '99 world championships. (at least, i THINK it was '99). they're my favorite ice dance couple so i just thought that was so unfair for them. -_-
 
crazy spinster said:
and it was really unfortunate that anissina and peizerat (the french ice dance couple) had to get dragged into this whole ugly mess. because i think they won their medal fair and square but everyone was suspicious of them and it really wasn't their fault at all. in fact, THEY were also victims of a judging scandal during the '99 world championships. (at least, i THINK it was '99). they're my favorite ice dance couple so i just thought that was so unfair for them. -_-
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I hate to burst your bubble... but they weren't totally innocent. Marina anissina was actually involved in the whole scandal!!! :eek: Plus, I've met them, and trust me... they are NOT nice people. :( I must say, though, Marina has GREAT hair!!!!

As for the other thing... we still don't know if the other europian judges were bribed or not. There is some evidence that they were. Sorry if I misunderstood you. :smiley:
 
how were they involved? is it just because marina is a russian on the french team? (the "worst" of both worlds, i guess you could say)

well, i can't say that i'm too shocked though since ice dancing is the area where most of the scandals take place. it's pretty impossible to move up the ranks in ice dancing without a little "help."

and, nice or not, i still think they were the best ice dancing pair. :smiley: their programs were always so passionate and original. i mean, what other team would even think about the woman lifting the man? ;) and i LOVED their man in the iron mask program.

i guess when all is said and done, the judging just needs a MAJOR overhaul. they've started changing it somewhat with the scores being anonymous and the computer just randomly choosing scores to use. but i still don't think that's going to do it. i think judges shouldn't be from countries. hmm...that doesn't sound right. but you know what i mean? i don't think there should be a "canadian" judge or a "japanese" judge. they just need to be judges, period. with no bias whatsoever. maybe they could just create a team of judges or something.
 
Gah. Ice dancing is the worst with the judging scandals. When they stopped doing figures competitively, my friend thought about switching to ice dancing briefly... and then she remembered all the bad stuff... and she just retired.

And yes, I also enjoyed the woman lifting the man in the french dancers' program.
 
when i am up at my bros hockey games or practices i just go to the other rink to watch the ice skaters and here and there i will watch it on tv when there is nothing to do but its fun to watch tho
~Kay~
 
I love watching figure skating! uts the highlight of my winter lol...i pursued figure skating for a couple of years but it got annoying having to drivean hour to a skating rink everyday to practice...
 

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