Season 2 irina and elsa
- Thread starter crazy spinster
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Did anyone notice Jacks reference to them as prostitutes.... i guess thats a little insight on what he thinks of his loving wife... but in a sense if he slept with Irina just to plant the tracker and the scientist guy was NSA and he knew about the spy thing and slept with his wife/married her so as not to blow his cover (at least at first before they fell in love) didnt they both prostitute themselves at one time or another....
The actor who played Elsa was excellent, but she, husband and child are in protective custody up in a safe house in Washington. She knows about Derevko, but not in person since Derevko has been out of sight for so many years. So there would be no reason for her to interact again.
However, having said that...no one knows the "evil" the writers can think of and do to us.
However, having said that...no one knows the "evil" the writers can think of and do to us.
onedizneefreek
Cadet
I liked the parallel. Pretty clever of the writers.
aliasjgfanaticmv
Cadet
I think the actress who played Elsa was great. And I guess Irina and Elsa are different and the same...I mean, besides the fact that they had the same type of mission and the both worked for SRV (SVR?) they also ended up loving their husband and their kid. But they are different because Elsa didn't betray them for Rambaldi, neither did she start her own crime orginization...I think Irina is much more in control of her emotions than Elsa is, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, Elsa reacting so badly when Jack threatened to never let her see her son again just proved she ultimately loves her family! Now Irina on the other hand....well, I think she's used her last chance to get on Jack's good side, LMAO!
It was also interesting how Jack implied that Irina's pregnancy was an accident by talking about Elsa's life and describing her pregnancy as an accident. Does he think that Irina felt that Sydney in some way redeemed her for her past actions, which is what he accused Elsa of feeling? I wonder...
crazy spinster
Cadet
couldn't agree with you more, jo!!aliasjgfanaticmv said:
and as for the irina and elsa's pregnancies - i don't think anything on alias is ever an "accident."
i think there's a reason behind everything...aliasjgfanaticmv
Cadet
Yeah, it would hurt. In fact, it DOES hurt! It would really hurt her because she's already been through a lot...
aliasjgfanaticmv
Cadet
How can Irina really be Elsa? Unless those people meant it in some other way.
V
verdantheart
Guest
I thought the parallel turned out to be a really strange one because it turned out that Neil Caplan was an NSA agent who knew all along who his wife was. Therefore, in the sense of who had the advantage of knowledge, the situation was not the same as the Bristows at all. In fact, Elsa Caplan is more in Jack's position in the sense that she is in the position of having less knowledge of her situation, and also of putting first priority on her family (not to say that Neil Caplan does not also do this). To say that Jack is "more stupid" than Caplan when Caplan was informed of his wife's affiliation is rather unfair to Jack.
Jack's story about the spy-wife: how much of this is what he believes about his own situation and Irina? That's a good question. He meant to be hard on Elsa because he wanted to push her hard enough to get a true reaction out of her. He probably pushed her a little harder than he meant to. But choosing the harshest of terms is part of the game. Does he also believe what he said? Maybe. It's hard to tell where the game leaves off and the truth begins. Where does the interrogator leave off and the injured spouse begin? I don't think we've seen a fraction of the injured spouse yet. Jack hides that man too assiduously. But we saw a glimpse of him.
As I've said, I hardly think that Jack could imagine that Elsa or any woman could "be Irina Derevko." Irina is too . . . Irina--too unique. Is anyone else so poised, subtle, charming, manipulative, dangerous?
Was Sydney "an accident"--as in, did Irina's birth control fail? Perhaps that is what Jack believes. He probably wanted children. As to Irina, who knows? It's possible her birth control did fail and she decided to keep her child, either because she felt, as Jack suggests, that a child would redeem the evil that she does for the sake of her job, or because she loved Jack and wanted something good to come out of the marriage, something that was theirs, lasting, and symbolic of the love that existed between them. Or maybe she decided to "let" the birth control "fail" (so she told her handler) for the same reasons. Even if Sydney is "an accident," or, worse yet, "part of her cover" (as Sydney suggested last season), it seems clear that Irina has some love for her daughter, for she wants to preserve her life and seems anxious to reunite with her in time ("the truth takes time"), but it also seems possible that Irina would sacrifice Sydney in service of her quest for Rambaldi's truth.
Dang, this turned out to be long!
Jack's story about the spy-wife: how much of this is what he believes about his own situation and Irina? That's a good question. He meant to be hard on Elsa because he wanted to push her hard enough to get a true reaction out of her. He probably pushed her a little harder than he meant to. But choosing the harshest of terms is part of the game. Does he also believe what he said? Maybe. It's hard to tell where the game leaves off and the truth begins. Where does the interrogator leave off and the injured spouse begin? I don't think we've seen a fraction of the injured spouse yet. Jack hides that man too assiduously. But we saw a glimpse of him.
As I've said, I hardly think that Jack could imagine that Elsa or any woman could "be Irina Derevko." Irina is too . . . Irina--too unique. Is anyone else so poised, subtle, charming, manipulative, dangerous?
Was Sydney "an accident"--as in, did Irina's birth control fail? Perhaps that is what Jack believes. He probably wanted children. As to Irina, who knows? It's possible her birth control did fail and she decided to keep her child, either because she felt, as Jack suggests, that a child would redeem the evil that she does for the sake of her job, or because she loved Jack and wanted something good to come out of the marriage, something that was theirs, lasting, and symbolic of the love that existed between them. Or maybe she decided to "let" the birth control "fail" (so she told her handler) for the same reasons. Even if Sydney is "an accident," or, worse yet, "part of her cover" (as Sydney suggested last season), it seems clear that Irina has some love for her daughter, for she wants to preserve her life and seems anxious to reunite with her in time ("the truth takes time"), but it also seems possible that Irina would sacrifice Sydney in service of her quest for Rambaldi's truth.
Dang, this turned out to be long!
Manu Posted on Apr 3 2003, 02:15 PM
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No, it depends on what this quest of her is...but that's really, I think, not happening on the story boards. She's gone too far out of her way to connect with Sydney. "I wanted you to know, Sydney, I love you!" Then the earrings as a parting gift...but with something added a way to communicate. (Sydney, darn it, gave them to the CIA when she should hang onto them.After all, it could mean a way to re-connect whether to recapture her mother, or again to find out more about one of the most interesting women in fiction. h34r:
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No, it depends on what this quest of her is...but that's really, I think, not happening on the story boards. She's gone too far out of her way to connect with Sydney. "I wanted you to know, Sydney, I love you!" Then the earrings as a parting gift...but with something added a way to communicate. (Sydney, darn it, gave them to the CIA when she should hang onto them.After all, it could mean a way to re-connect whether to recapture her mother, or again to find out more about one of the most interesting women in fiction. h34r:
V
verdantheart
Guest
She's worked hard to move Sydney out of a position where she might have to be sacrificed. I don't think Irina wants to face that choice. However, I wouldn't want to hazard a guess (at this time) of what choice she'd make if forced to choose. I'd like to think she wouldn't sacrifice Sydney (I know Jack never would, for anything), but Irina? I couldn't say for certain. It wasn't that long ago that Irina nearly got Sydney killed going up against Sark (under the ice and up on the rocket). She knew how dangerous he was . . . later on she began sounding a little more hesitant and emphasizing that fact, but still . . . how far has it gone?
verdantheart Posted on Apr 3 2003, 06:47 PM
I believe Irina decoded the four names on the paper that would help the CIA to break the code in the music and as she did so said, "You wouldn't be needing this if you didn't know where the music box was. Sark will kill you and I don't want to lose the opportunity to explain myself to you." or something similar. So she didn't send Sydney, SD6 did with CIA hanging onto the action etc....and the same with the rocket..SD6 sent her.
You know we just don't know enough about Irina and WHY
she is willing to give up so much (Jack and SYdney).
She is another reason I think this season Rocks more than last.
I believe Irina decoded the four names on the paper that would help the CIA to break the code in the music and as she did so said, "You wouldn't be needing this if you didn't know where the music box was. Sark will kill you and I don't want to lose the opportunity to explain myself to you." or something similar. So she didn't send Sydney, SD6 did with CIA hanging onto the action etc....and the same with the rocket..SD6 sent her.
You know we just don't know enough about Irina and WHY
she is willing to give up so much (Jack and SYdney).
She is another reason I think this season Rocks more than last.
