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Wow, Jack's a jerk.

Discussion in 'Characters, Cast and Crew' started by Sydney421, Apr 4, 2003.

  1. Sydney421

    Sydney421 Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2003
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I was in total shock when Jack starting comparing that Elsa lady to Irina. That was really kinda mean of him. I mean, he made the woman cry. I think the fact that he really did love Irina and then she betrayed him still hurts him deep down and he takes it out on anyone who might pose that kind of a threat to him or Sydney. I wish he would get over it and move on with his life.
     
  2. Chanel

    Chanel Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    he was such a jerk, but i think i felt sorta bad for him, not when he said the whole thing about the child, but later, because he has no clu who to trust and is basiacally very worried that elsa will do the ame thing that irina did to him
     
  3. verdantheart

    verdantheart Guest

    My interpretation is that, given no other way of corroborating her story, Jack felt that he had to push her to get an emotional reaction out of her, but that he carried it perhaps a little farther than he wanted to and felt bad about what he had to do. He needed to know whether he could trust the intel that she gave them--I think that had he determined that she wasn't being truthful, he would have tracked Vaughn to Sydney's location and interfered with her plans. Yes, he has lasting wounds from his contact with Irina, but he isn't going to go to a third party simply to put them on display--he is reluctant to do that with anyone.
    ;)
     
  4. Sydney421

    Sydney421 Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2003
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I agree, somewhat, but I don't think that his real intent was to make her cry. I felt kinda bad cuz you could see in his eyes how hurt he was when she started crying. :( But still, it was not cool of him to attack her like that emotionally, especially after all she had gone through with being kidnapped by Sloane and stuff. I give him a thumbs down on that. (n)
     
  5. Long Tall Texan

    Long Tall Texan Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2003
    I think Jack is a super huge jerk most of the time. Especially about the "Project Christmas" thing, and then not telling Syd that she had been brainwashed. He doesn't make good decisions about Irena either. First he wouldn't let her out, then when he did he removed her tracking device! Not so smark Jack! If only he would smile once in a while and not act like the whole world is on his shoulders, I think he would seem like a better guy. He shouldn't treat Elsa like Irena either. They are so not the same person, but since he doesn't even trust his own daughter, he wouldn't know...
     
  6. verdantheart

    verdantheart Guest

    Take a moment to scratch the surface. Jack started out as a warm human being, much as Sydney is now, and much of what he does is aimed at ensuring that Sydney does not become what he has become. So, because of that priority, he makes mistakes. "Don't Trust people because they're nice . . . Meanwhile, a total jerk might risk everything for you." Think about that when you think about Jack. Jack has gone through a lot and become hardened as a result. He doesn't do things so that people will like him. He does them to get results.

    On to Elsa Caplan. Ever hear the phrase "cruel to be kind"? Not only did Jack get the verification he needed from her in a short period of time, one brief but unpleasant experience allowed her to forego a lengthy separation from her family while the US govt determined whether she should be treated as a defector or enemy. And let's look a little deeper. Mrs. Caplan was playing it both ways, wasn't she? She fell in love with the American she was spying on, yet she kept on betraying his trust and working for her government. She wasn't willing to choose. What did she expect? That she could just go on pretending and eventually she'd be allowed to retire?! Sooner or later it was going to blow up in her face, but she was too much of a coward to make her choice and come clean. Instead, she waited until the endgame, when it was too late and she doomed her husband to death. She should get down on her knees to Sydney in thanks for her husband's life. Sure, I have some sympathy for her, but, come on! Swallows play a very dirty game. The fact that her husband was aware of what she was doing and forgave her was not her fault but her good fortune.

    Sure, I'll go that Jack has his jerk side. But, then, again, Elsa Caplan was no angel and deserved to be forced to take stock of her life. Seeing the situation from the perspective of someone who was in a situation like her own husband was probably a valuable eye-opener for her.
    ;)
     
  7. kylo4

    kylo4 Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Location:
    Canada
    He just thought that no Russian people like her and his wife are good.
     
  8. syd_spy47

    syd_spy47 Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Location:
    Indiana
    I don't think he's a jerk at all. He's been hurt and it still hurts him. Because Elsa and Irina have similarities, he jumped to conclusions and he let out some things he was feeling towards Irina. I don't think you can really blame him for his actions on a higher level. So I don't believe he's a jerk.
     
  9. verdantheart

    verdantheart Guest

    Gotta disagree with you there. But I'd think that he believes that anyone who uses sex and someone's love for them as a tool to get the job done has questionable morals. And I'll go on to say that I agree (with Jack) to the point that I'd suggest that such a person might want to examine his or her morals. It's not a job that I personally could do. My country would just have to get the intel some other way. And maybe that's one reason US intelligence doesn't do as well in that department, as a matter of fact.
    ;)
     
  10. Ophelia

    Ophelia Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    When I was doing some research about Russia for a novel about Irina I'm writing, I ran across an interesting little tidbit: During the Cold War, the Russians did tend to rely more on human intelligence gathering, while the US went more with electronic intelligence gathering.

    A while back, I also saw a documentary on the History Channel about human intelligence gathering during World War II, where diplomats and military officers on both sides were victimized in the same way Jack was. As I recall, the documentary also said that both sides found such methods relatively inefficient, because the intel gathered that way was not always reliable, there was too much risk of being discovered, and it was very time consuming -- even if it was less costly in monetary terms. Just a bit of trivia for a Thursday evening.

    BTW, I really don't think Jack was just being a jerk with Elsa Caplan. What she had done was eerily like what Irina had done, and he had every reason to be suspicious of her. I think he would have been suspicious even if he had never heard of Irina Derevko. I think he did go further than he had intended, though. Once he got started, he just had difficulty putting on the brakes, that's all. At least he had the grace to realize that she was telling the truth when she screamed at him, "I am NOT Irina Derevko!"
     
  11. verdantheart

    verdantheart Guest

    I think we're in agreement, Ophelia.
    ;)
     
  12. alisydas

    alisydas Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    U.K, where I dont know!
    hmmm russia big country!
     
  13. Ophelia

    Ophelia Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    It's the biggest on the planet, covering 11 different time zones. It's also a lot more diverse than most of us Americans realize. Who says "Alias" isn't educational? :)
     
  14. verdantheart

    verdantheart Guest

    Remember, it used to include Alaska . . .
     
  15. turnipcouch134

    turnipcouch134 Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Location:
    California
    It did???? WOw! I didn't know that. Allalias is educational to ;)
     
  16. Angel_dj

    Angel_dj Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    Arizona
    Jack is a bit mean, but he has good intentions.
     
  17. Sydney421

    Sydney421 Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2003
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Yes, but the way he expresses those good intentions isn't always the best.
     
  18. Ophelia

    Ophelia Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    ITA, Sydney421. But in this instance, he was using his pent-up anger for a purpose. He just let it go too far, that's all. And at least he realized what he had done -- after all, he did arrange defector status for her. He's no monster.
     
  19. Angel_dj

    Angel_dj Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Location:
    Arizona
    I agree.
     
  20. Sydney421

    Sydney421 Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2003
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Good point.
     

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