Politics Abortion
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mystery_chick
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again Adoption is NOT ALWAYS THE BEST OPTION! and again. It takes two people to get pregnant, why is the men always the bystander in all of this? Isn't men the one we should blame? Basically what you're stating is that Woman have to be more responsible then men or else they have to pay fo it. -_- *mutters* that's real fair.ALIAS_RULES said:
If it's time for men to be responsible why arn't they? I don't know maybe it's because you've never had a period but why dont' we all give men our uteruses and have them be the one to get pregnant. That would be REAL great there. -_-
--Mandy
SpongeBobSquarePants
Cadet
If you are addressing me as "ignorant" I would highly suggest that you look-up the terminology of that word. Ignorance pertains to a lack of knowledge and my opinions on abortion are based on factual evidence.alex said:
A lot of people look for "easy answers" when it comes to such topics. Their solution is "don't have sex or just give-it-up for adoption". Thesesolutions are very naive and, yes, they might work for you, but they might not for someone else. I live in the "real" world which, is harsh and full of problems that don't have easy solutions. When you start expressing feelings of hatred or/and the wanting to take away someone's right(s), it just causes arguments like this that don't go any where.
When we lose the right to make choices involing our own bodies than what's the point of living in a democratic country? Just move to the middle East if you feel that way.
:lol: Message from a Toronto Cracker :lol:
Princess Jeanie
Cadet
Okay, you have gone completely TOO far. I'm sorry, and I've found it interesting to debate this topic with you thus far, but I can't stand it when people make immature remarks just because you don't share the same view. Your view, fortunately for many unborn children, is NOT the only one. So if you can't debate your side without resorting to childish name calling, I wish you would just remove yourself from the debate.SpongeBobSquarePants said:
~Jeanie :king:
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AliasALIAS
Guest
This is moer directed to those who believe in God.
God didn't invent abortion--humans did. Yes, everything exists because of God, but it doesn't mean it was God's intention for certain things to be created. The more correct statement would be that all goodness comes from God. If literally everything came from God, then He would be responsible for murder, rape, weapons of mass destruction, depression, poverty, etc. These things are the result of human imperfection.
Yet she has the right to decide whether another person lives or not <_<
Again, he/she still gets to decide if another lives.
Most of the countries that have enough medical services to provide abortion aren't even overpopulated. The US, western Europe, Canada... are these countries blistering with kids without food, more so than Africa and other poor nations? No. So I don't see how abortion has anything to do with overpopulation. Even if this was the case, then abortions would become government-enforced if it was so important to kill children in order to keep the population controlled.
I'm not sure if you're necessarily calling us pro-life people here "fanatics." But what you're saying is that pro-lifers discriminate unfairly? How so? Because we want people to live?
So women should have the right to kill but men can't have the right to protect the life of his child? And you put pro-life "fanatics" on the same line as racists and homophobes when you don't believe in equal rights...
And mothers do decide if the child is circumsized
You're right. It's unrealistic. But we should at least try to aim for an idealistic society--one where I have no right to kill you, just as no one can decide whether another lives or dies.
Not sure if you have the same view as SpongeBob (men don't have a say in abortion), but assuming you do, is it fair for a father to see his child die against his will?
And yes, it's unfair that women have to spend nine months with the pregnancy. But guess what? That' natural part of life. You can't tell mother nature to change it
Unfortunately, women do have to be more careful about sex. Men don't have the risk of getting pregnant. It's not fair, but that's life, a part of life we can't control. However, what we can try to prevent is murder.Abstinence and protection aren't easy solutions. They're easy preventions. Abortion is the easy solution. Sure, it could leave an emotionl scar for the rest of your life. But it's also a way of escaping the responsibility of a child.
Graphic images of abortion
http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/pictures.html
(these next ones are after the first trimester and have a religious slant)
Freedom of Choice?
See the baby after an abortion.
Another
SpongeBobSquarePants
Cadet
The pic of the baby was atleast 5 months into the pregnancy. I do not agree with late tri-mester abortions. Early abortions are acceptable because it's just tissue.
-_- Message from a Toronto Cracker -_-
-_- Message from a Toronto Cracker -_-
SpongeBobSquarePants
Cadet
Notice how the VAST majority of people against abortion in this pic are men?:hmm:
Dirt-Bags/Women haters
:lol: Message from a Toronto Cracker :lol:
Dirt-Bags/Women haters
:lol: Message from a Toronto Cracker :lol:
Princess Jeanie
Cadet
And it is the results of God giving us the free will...but not to pretend to be Him.
I don't see these so much as morals, but as the essence of everyones natural understanding of right and wrong--in any culture, and any religion it is wrong to kill (but then exceptions are placed on these by others trying to push an agenda).
Again, this is going way too far. It is so imature to compare someone who is defending a valid belief to racists and homophobes.
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AliasALIAS
Guest
Like Princess Jeanie said, there is absolutely no need for name calling. It's both immature and disrespectful, intentional or not.SpongeBobSquarePants said:
The first link was pics from the first trimester, but the next links were after the first trimester, like I noted
And how can you call it "just tissue"? Was the soul suddenly drilled into the baby in the second trimester?
And you say that men are pro-life because they "hate women" and don't experience pregnancy. One, just because men support life doesn't mean they hate women. Two, just because men don't get pregnant doesn't mean they don't understand the pain of it. Men may not feel, but they know that it is painful. But that has nothing to do with abortion. If women get abortions just to escape the pain, that only proves that abortion is a quick-fix, a way of getting out of responsibility.
hard topic, the view my body so i'll just do what i want, i understand what you mean, you have freedom to make choices, but look why can't you just use contraception and try to prevent the pregnancy?
if we all made 'what we what choices" with absolutely no kinda regulations, if would be an insane, crazy world, maybe even mass chaotic.
I don't think that the men on this issue hate women, or that the vast majority of pro-life people are men, it maybe just one picture you saw, so to call them women haters, take into consideration the statistics can lie and can be very arbitrary men to women, age, people who are willing to voice their opinion.
if we all made 'what we what choices" with absolutely no kinda regulations, if would be an insane, crazy world, maybe even mass chaotic.
I don't think that the men on this issue hate women, or that the vast majority of pro-life people are men, it maybe just one picture you saw, so to call them women haters, take into consideration the statistics can lie and can be very arbitrary men to women, age, people who are willing to voice their opinion.
gurlygirl_89
Cadet
overpopulating the planet? How selfish is that? Would you like someone saying that about you when you were unborn. Oh let's kill them since there are too many people on the planet. That's insane. Anyways yeah I'm pro-life but i can see where pro-choice people are coming from. Especially if they consider being raped a valid decision to get an abortion. I' really had problems with that because i thought well it wasn't her choice to get pregnant and i wouldn't want to have some monster's baby. But then i realized reagardless of how they are created they shouldn't be killed. It's not theiur fault. Anyways that my thoughts.
~Dark One~
~Dark One~
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mystery_chick
Guest
You're right to assume that I think men have no say in the abortion. It's like forcing a woman to get a tattoo or get piercings when they didn't want to! If the man really would like a child, find another woman who wants a child and go knock her up.AliasALIAS said:Not sure if you have the same view as SpongeBob (men don't have a say in abortion), but assuming you do, is it fair for a father to see his child die against his will?mystery_chick Dec 17 2003 said:
And yes, it's unfair that women have to spend nine months with the pregnancy. But guess what? That' natural part of life. You can't tell mother nature to change it
Just because we can be pregnant doesn't mean we have to. Plus there are other more dangerous and more deadly ways of getting rid of a child. Over dosing on drugs, large amount of alcohol, which are FAR more dangerous than getting a proper sanitary abortion. Also you're saying that just because men can't get pregnant it lessens their responsibility, well that's great, that means all fathers can just pick up and leave their family, that they can go around screwing other people just because he doesn't have to worry about getting pregnant?
--Mandy
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AliasALIAS
Guest
I meant that women have to be more careful when having sex because they have the risk of getting pregnant. That doesn't mean that men have less responsibility, just that women have to be extra-cautious if they don't want to get pregnant. It's like if you have risk of a heart attack because you're obese, you have to watch your diet (like women have a chance of pregnancy). But if your not obese, you don't have to be as cautious about it, but it doesn't mean you could eat a lot of fats (men don't have the chance of pregnancy, but it doesn't take their responsibility away).mystery_chick said:Also you're saying that just because men can't get pregnant it lessens their responsibility, well that's great, that means all fathers can just pick up and leave their family, that they can go around screwing other people just because he doesn't have to worry about getting pregnant?
--Mandy
Sex is much much more than about knocking up. It's an act of love. I know that it's the woman who has to carry the womb for nine months, but it's horrible to think that she has "ownership rights" over the child that was produced from mutual love. Children are not objects! What you're saying is that since the woman carries the child, the father might as well not have any rights in the growth of the child. If he can't be the father when it's a fetus, then why should he be the father when the child's growing up? With that philosophy, it's no surprise that men abandon their wives and children! You seem to hate how men leave their partners after pregnancies. But with the way you put it, men shouldn't care about the child since the mother could say "It's mine mine mine!"
KateJones47
I need sleep
I agree with aA. And, if the woman has "ownership rights," if she chooses to keep the child, why should the men have to pay child support? Talk about a double standard. It's the woman's responsibility when it's not born, but as soon as it is, it's the man's!AliasALIAS said:
Azhria Lilu
Captain
As AliasALIAS said in the "Chivalry" topic, we've been (doing the right thing and) reforming and giving women equal rights, but haven't made women equal with men in the areas where women have an advantage. It's like women want the best of both worlds: equal rights where they didn't have them before, but special rights as they've always had.KateJones47 said:I agree with aA. And, if the woman has "ownership rights," if she chooses to keep the child, why should the men have to pay child support? Talk about a double standard. It's the woman's responsibility when it's not born, but as soon as it is, it's the man's!AliasALIAS said:
The issue of abortion is conflicting for me.
I think that abortions abstractly immoral, not because you are preventing a life, but because you are ending one that is, in many ways, already living.
It’s a very blurry line. Is holding off sperm like holding off air: holding off the resources baby needs to live? Without abortions, babies would likely go on to live a normal life, however the same is true for birth control, and birth control certainly isn’t immoral.
I am in favor of abortions being legal. This is from a realistic perspective: If we made abortions illegal, people would still have unprotected sex and would still have abortions, just not as safely.
My views on this keep changing and I’ve very open to other ideas because I’m still feeling extremely confused on this issue.
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mystery_chick
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I just have a question. are you for abortion to be outlawed?AliasALIAS said:I meant that women have to be more careful when having sex because they have the risk of getting pregnant. That doesn't mean that men have less responsibility, just that women have to be extra-cautious if they don't want to get pregnant. It's like if you have risk of a heart attack because you're obese, you have to watch your diet (like women have a chance of pregnancy). But if your not obese, you don't have to be as cautious about it, but it doesn't mean you could eat a lot of fats (men don't have the chance of pregnancy, but it doesn't take their responsibility away).mystery_chick said:Also you're saying that just because men can't get pregnant it lessens their responsibility, well that's great, that means all fathers can just pick up and leave their family, that they can go around screwing other people just because he doesn't have to worry about getting pregnant?
--Mandy
Sex is much much more than about knocking up. It's an act of love. I know that it's the woman who has to carry the womb for nine months, but it's horrible to think that she has "ownership rights" over the child that was produced from mutual love. Children are not objects! What you're saying is that since the woman carries the child, the father might as well not have any rights in the growth of the child. If he can't be the father when it's a fetus, then why should he be the father when the child's growing up? With that philosophy, it's no surprise that men abandon their wives and children! You seem to hate how men leave their partners after pregnancies. But with the way you put it, men shouldn't care about the child since the mother could say "It's mine mine mine!"
--Mandy
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AliasALIAS
Guest
For the most part, for the same reasons you and others have mentioned, abortions shouldn't be outlawed because people would have unsafe abortions. The choice should still be available. But it doesn't really justify abortions--it's like compromising something that shouldn't be compromised. As much as I am against abortion, I understand that I can't make choices for other people. Unless my partner, friends, or family is thinking about abortion, abortion won't affect me dramatically. It's a moral issue that I think it's a waste of time for politicians to spend time and money on debating abortion when there are other things to worry about. But if I am to discuss the hot topic, I'd go against it fiercely.
Like Charlie said, it's a blurry line. But to sum it up generally, are abortions moral? No. Should abortions be illegal? No. Should women have abortions? No.
Like Charlie said, it's a blurry line. But to sum it up generally, are abortions moral? No. Should abortions be illegal? No. Should women have abortions? No.
SpongeBobSquarePants
Cadet
That's all I care aboutAliasALIAS said:
You don't have to agree with them, but it's people who want them out-lawed that make me sick.
~~Spongy!
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mystery_chick
Guest
ditto on that. Of course on some levels abortion is not moral but on others it's probably more moral than most things we do in life. that's my two cents -_-SpongeBobSquarePants said:That's all I care aboutAliasALIAS said:
You don't have to agree with them, but it's people who want them out-lawed that make me sick.
~~Spongy!
--Mandy
Sorry if someone posted this before but I saw this pro-life poster once that I thought explained my view(s) on it. It read...
By 2 weeks you can hear its heart beat
By 4 weeks it can open its eyes
By 5 weeks it can suck its thumb
And through all this still be put to death by abortion
-_-
By 2 weeks you can hear its heart beat
By 4 weeks it can open its eyes
By 5 weeks it can suck its thumb
And through all this still be put to death by abortion
-_-