Politics Abortion

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mystery_chick

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xdancer said:
ok, this paper is pretty good. you've brought in many different supporting points for your argument. but what kind of paper is this? is it an opinion paper or a thesis paper? iuf it's the latter, you need to take personal pronouns like "I" out and take out the opinions. however, if it's not a thesis paper, completely ignore that ;)

i personally hate the argument that no life is better than a possible bad childhood, because no one knows the future. i think that is one of your weaker arguments anyway. also, i think that the whole God not being a woman thing should be taken out. (don't even get me started on that, i just read a book about the divine feminine). also, the whole leaders are rarely women thing isn't that great of an argument. legislators sometimes are women, and men have just as much right to their opinion as women do, especially if it is their unborn child.

ok, i'm done, and for the most part, it's a really good paper. hope you get an A!
Ya it is an opinion paper, i should've said that earilier...


yes yes, i know i know, but you know there's only so much i can write ;) -_- anyways it's gonna go through some editing process. ;) thanx though!
--Mandy :angelic:
 

kiki81ny

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Mystery, I think your paper is EXCELLENT. You have presented your ideas in a clear, cohesive manner and also very intelligently. I agree with all of the issues and reasons that you have presented. You have a few gramatical/spelling errors, but you can just spell-check those. You have gotten your opinion across very strongly using well thought out arguments, and I think that's probably what your teacher wants to see. I hope you get an A, you deserve it! I actually wrote a similar paper for my English class last year, and I received some flack from pro-life classmates for my opinion. If that happens to you, don't let it bother you, just stick by your opinion.
 
M

mystery_chick

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thanks Kiki. we're not presenting it, it's just a final paper, that's worth 15% of our final mark so ya ;) I'm gonna go back and edit it again.
--Mandy :angelic:
 

SydneyFan

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Despite that, I think babies should not be a punishment for a naïve teenage mother, nor should the child come to harm because of the mother‘s lack of experience. All other issues aside the baby will develop emotions as it gets older and in that case the mother is not only hurting herself but also another. Looking at it selfishly on the mother’s perspective, going through pregnancy could potentially ruin her life. Having a baby in high school could not only endanger a girl’s academic achievements but also her social success and I don’t believe that something like sex should wreck someone’s life
There is plenty of help to be had for teenage mothers without them shirking any responsibility. They need to own up to what they do and take care of their kids. They can still get their education and they'll have more handouts made ready to them than they know what to do with. This sex ruining their life stuff is a bunch of malarkey. It's time for them to grow up and do what's right.
 

xdancer

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SydneyFan said:
Despite that, I think babies should not be a punishment for a naïve teenage mother, nor should the child come to harm because of the mother‘s lack of experience. All other issues aside the baby will develop emotions as it gets older and in that case the mother is not only hurting herself but also another. Looking at it selfishly on the mother’s perspective, going through pregnancy could potentially ruin her life. Having a baby in high school could not only endanger a girl’s academic achievements but also her social success and I don’t believe that something like sex should wreck someone’s life
There is plenty of help to be had for teenage mothers without them shirking any responsibility. They need to own up to what they do and take care of their kids. They can still get their education and they'll have more handouts made ready to them than they know what to do with. This sex ruining their life stuff is a bunch of malarkey. It's time for them to grow up and do what's right.
what's "right"...hmm, well what's right for one person may not be what's right for another. morals are not absolute, they're relative. and sometimes, there's not plenty of help for teen mothers.
 

SydneyFan

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what's "right"...hmm, well what's right for one person may not be what's right for another. morals are not absolute, they're relative. and sometimes, there's not plenty of help for teen mothers.
If you're living in america I'm going to have to disagree with you and say you are definetly wrong there. There is always help for teenage mothers. Perhaps you just don't know where to look. And any body that can fit it into their morals not to take care of their child can justify just about anything and I daresay not even call themselves human. County services has or will point you in the right direction for all the help you need for unwed mothers. Even pay for you to go to school and watch your kid while you do it. They make it so easy you don't have any excuses. The help is there for everyone all you have to do is look. If you're going to murder your child the reason should be better than because you want to sit next to that cute guy in study hall next semester. Or is that a moral decision too? Has it really gotten that bad? I'm refering of course to the paper's explanation that a girls gotta have a social life and shouldn't have her life ruined by mere sex.
 
M

mystery_chick

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SydneyFan said:
what's "right"...hmm, well what's right for one person may not be what's right for another. morals are not absolute, they're relative. and sometimes, there's not plenty of help for teen mothers.
If you're living in america I'm going to have to disagree with you and say you are definetly wrong there. There is always help for teenage mothers. Perhaps you just don't know where to look. And any body that can fit it into their morals not to take care of their child can justify just about anything and I daresay not even call themselves human. County services has or will point you in the right direction for all the help you need for unwed mothers. Even pay for you to go to school and watch your kid while you do it. They make it so easy you don't have any excuses. The help is there for everyone all you have to do is look. If you're going to murder your child the reason should be better than because you want to sit next to that cute guy in study hall next semester. Or is that a moral decision too? Has it really gotten that bad? I'm refering of course to the paper's explanation that a girls gotta have a social life and shouldn't have her life ruined by mere sex.
Well first of all, sex ruining a girl's social life is not necessarily fair is My opinion. you dont' necessarily have to agree with it.

Also if you read the paper in its full entity you would have seen me say

Approximately 46 million abortions are performed each year, 78% of which are performed in developing countries and 22% in developed countries.
Which means that those who are living in America and Canada and developed European Countries are getting the help and they're only making up 22% of the abortion. Some people don't have the luxury of getting aid. Others might be forced to do it because of pressure from parents and etc. Anyways I highly doubt the government is willing to pay for an education at Harvard or any 'big league' school... but then that's my opinion. ;)
--mandy :angelic:
 

SydneyFan

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and my opinion was refering to only those that chose to get abortions because it interfered with there there social life or even there acacdemic schedule. ;) I'm saying to xdancer that if you live in America there is no excuse. You have more programs available to help teenage mothers than are even needed right now which I believe is a good thing. They should be put to use. That's what they're there there for. A teenage pregnancy need be nothing more than a bump in the road. And who's going to Harvard to begin with. I don't see anybody using getting pregnant as the reason they didn't go to Harvard. Do you know how small the percentage is of people that go to Harvard? Let's be real. The government provides the type of person who gets pregnant and can't take care of themselves with a better education than they could ever get on their own and gives them skills they could never acquire anywhere else.
And I did read your entire paper. Are people in underdeveloped countries really worried about a social life. Or are they worried about getting something to eat and having another mouth to feed which would be a sound reason for an abortion. Do you see how the two don't mix? And maybe your papers talking like there should be one law for the whole world when that is clearly impossible since conditions are extremely different the world over. Don't get me wrong I think you have a good paper I just wanted to point out a few things I thought needed saying. And you really shouldn't be pushy and insinuate that I haven't read your entire paper when I haven't given you reason to think that ling ling.
 

SydneyFan

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In a country like America, rich in resources and filled with alternatives to abortion, except in extreme cases such as rape and incest a woman should still be given what can only be declared a very very selfish, needless , choice. It is after all her body (even though the government actually has more claim to it I think) to make the mistake with and not anybody elses. The government needs to keep there noses out of our business and start worrying about making peoples lives easier not harder. We all know that killing is wrong but if it's our own child then it's ok. I'ts our choice to kill. Just do it before it comes out of your vagina or you'll go to jail. And forget about the father. He shouldn't have any say so in the matter because it's not his body. Just make him pay for everything if you decide to keep the baby.
 
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mystery_chick

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SydneyFan said:
In a country like America, rich in resources and filled with alternatives to abortion, except in extreme cases such as rape and incest a woman should still be given what can only be declared a very very selfish, needless , choice. It is after all her body (even though the government actually has more claim to it I think) to make the mistake with and not anybody elses. The government needs to keep there noses out of our business and start worrying about making peoples lives easier not harder. We all know that killing is wrong but if it's our own child then it's ok. I'ts our choice to kill. Just do it before it comes out of your vagina or you'll go to jail. And forget about the father. He shouldn't have any say so in the matter because it's not his body. Just make him pay for everything if you decide to keep the baby.
Sure, but help doesn't get to everyone. As well off as America is, it simply doesn't have the capital to help with every child and ever single mother. Now here's the thing. according to http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/

Reasons Women Choose Abortion (U.S.)
Wants to postpone childbearing: 25.5%
Wants no (more) children: 7.9%
Cannot afford a baby: 21.3%
Having a child will disrupt education or job: 10.8%
Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy: 14.1%
Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy: 12.2%
Risk to maternal health: 2.8%
Risk to fetal health: 3.3%
Other: 2.1%

now 46 million abortions are performed around the world each year. 22% in developed countries that's 10,120,000 in developed countries. Say the United states has about 1/8 of it. that's 1,265,000
Those who would need help would fall under. Cannot afford a baby, has relationship problems or partner does not want pregnancy, Too young; parent or others object to pregnancy, and maybe even Want to postpone childbearing. That's 602,140. Now imagine all those kids are born. That's over half a MILLION. I'm sorry, but as optimistic as i can be sometimes i just dont' see half a million mothers with child on aid.

And why is it always called killing? sometimes the fetus can't even live on its own outside the womb how is it still alive? if a woman miscarriages then she killed her baby?! And yes sometimes the decision is selfish but what if you were born with your mother hating you all the time? how would that feel?
--Mandy :angelic:
 

Andy_dj

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SydneyFan said:
And why is it always called killing? sometimes the fetus can't even live on its own outside the womb how is it still alive?
Thats like saying, oh why can't humans live on the surface of the sun? Does that mean their not living because they can't live there? A baby needs to develop in the womb..that doesn't mean its not alive.
 

SydneyFan

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Sure, but help doesn't get to everyone. As well off as America is, it simply doesn't have the capital to help with every child and ever single mother. Now here's the thing. according to
And why is it always called killing? sometimes the fetus can't even live on its own outside the womb how is it still alive? if a woman miscarriages then she killed her baby?! And yes sometimes the decision is selfish but what if you were born with your mother hating you all the time? how would that feel?

--Mandy

How would I feel if my mother hated me all the time. Better than if I was dead. There is always hope if your alive. That's like saying suicide is a better option for those with clinical depression. It's not. There's always hope.

as far as America not being able to afford every single child, I'm afraid you're just making things up now. You may be able to get away with that in your highshchool class but I've lived in the real world and I've seen that the system takes care of everybody in this country no matter how poor, no matter how many children no matter what. We can more than afford that. The US doesn't cop out on it's children.

I don't know why you're so set on killing babies but more power to you. There are just plenty of resources in this country if that's an excuse out that you're looking for. And as far as over population the US isn't even close to being full. We have tons of undeveloped land left. And as far as adoption as an option it's a good one for white babies because they are always in demand and still leaves a chance for minority babies which would be better than ending their lives, but I do believe the choice should be left to the mother. But hopefully she will be better informed than you are. A bunch of statistics don't mean anything if you haven't got real world experience to back it up. They obviously don't tell the whole story.

And another thing I believe is if people can't afford a baby, don't want a baby,relationship problems,too young, or postpone a pregnancy then they shoud have used some sort of birth control and not use an abortion as a form of birth control. Otherwise, If you have an unwanted pregnancy , you do what millions of americans do every year, you stand up and be an adult about it and raise your child the best you can. You don't just give up and quit. It's not supposed to be disposable.
 
M

mystery_chick

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Andy said:
SydneyFan said:
And why is it always called killing? sometimes the fetus can't even live on its own outside the womb how is it still alive?
Thats like saying, oh why can't humans live on the surface of the sun? Does that mean their not living because they can't live there? A baby needs to develop in the womb..that doesn't mean its not alive.
Uhhhh. :blink: uhhhh..... ya.... We make the choice of not living on the sun because we can't phsically do it. If we do then we'd be dead..... :confused:

How would I feel if my mother hated me all the time. Better than if I was dead. There is always hope if your alive. That's like saying suicide is a better option for those with clinical depression. It's not. There's always hope.

as far as America not being able to afford every single child, I'm afraid you're just making things up now. You may be able to get away with that in your highshchool class but I've lived in the real world and I've seen that the system takes care of everybody in this country no matter how poor, no matter how many children no matter what. We can more than afford that. The US doesn't cop out on it's children.

I don't know why you're so set on killing babies but more power to you. There are just plenty of resources in this country if that's an excuse out that you're looking for. And as far as over population the US isn't even close to being full. We have tons of undeveloped land left. And as far as adoption as an option it's a good one for white babies because they are always in demand and still leaves a chance for minority babies which would be better than ending their lives, but I do believe the choice should be left to the mother. But hopefully she will be better informed than you are. A bunch of statistics don't mean anything if you haven't got real world experience to back it up. They obviously don't tell the whole story.

And another thing I believe is if people can't afford a baby, don't want a baby,relationship problems,too young, or postpone a pregnancy then they shoud have used some sort of birth control and not use an abortion as a form of birth control. Otherwise, If you have an unwanted pregnancy , you do what millions of americans do every year, you stand up and be an adult about it and raise your child the best you can. You don't just give up and quit. It's not supposed to be disposable.
Well I guess you can live with the fact that your mother never wanted you in the first place. But you know what, a three year old kid will wonder why his or her mommy doesnt' love them. Why they never get a kiss good night or a hug every morning. When you're that young and your mother isn't there to take care of you and you have no idea who your father is, you're all alone in the world. and then what are you going to do?!

I'm sorry, but where do you live? Cause in some places there are sure as hell not enough help. Where do you think gangs come from? Do you really think the US does everything only for children and sacrifice everything else? The US spent $276.7 billion a year in military. (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html#Military ) In 2003 the pentagon spent $355.5 billion. (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Features/agenda_defense.cfm ) I dont' know about you and where you live and how your living conditions are. But where i live there are always news about how schools are not functioning properly because of old age or lack of text book. You cant' just pop a baby out of the womb and say, hey let's let the government help because they have all the money that we need because that's NEVER going to be true. Welcome to reality, nothing is going to be perfect. Life is never going to be fair. Not everyone is going to get the same amount. What happens when these kids grow up, and need money for cars, good clothes, go to the movies, go to universities?

I"m not set out on killing babies. I've giving a choice to the woman who's pregnant. There are plenty of resources? Well I dont' think you realize that it takes space to have all those resources and that's the space you need for all the extra people to live on. What then? all the lands will be populated. Wow you really think 46 million babies will be adopted every year? I really can't comment on that. I can't believe you really believe that. And you know what, statistics do mean something, just beause they're numbers doesn't mean they're real. You wanna know about real life? real life is hard. It's NEVER going to be fair and not everyone will get the fair chance to live. Ever think about children in Africa? where birth control is rare? Ever imagine yourself lying on a dirt road dying because you're so hungry?

We've already been through the birth control issue. Raise the child the best you can? ya, because if you're a lousy parent it doesn't matter, because at least you tried. becaues your kid is not going to look at you and never be able to see someone that they can look after. And you look down and them and see someone that you can never truely love because you never wanted them in the first place.

--Mandy :angelic:
 

SydneyFan

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Well I guess you can live with the fact that your mother never wanted you in the first place. But you know what, a three year old kid will wonder why his or her mommy doesnt' love them. Why they never get a kiss good night or a hug every morning. When you're that young and your mother isn't there to take care of you and you have no idea who your father is, you're all alone in the world. and then what are you going to do?!
Ok I get it now , we kill the babies because the mothers don't love them and the government does have enough money(so you still think) and it's better to be dead than go with out a good night kiss. And oh yeah I forgot we should kill the babies because they might grow up to be murders and drug addicts. Hey , why not get to the root of the problem and just sterilize all of the minorities. There are your statistics. We know their mothers don't love them and they all grow up to be on drugs and in gangs and on welfare and murderers. Skip the abortions and just sterilize all minorities. Black brown and yellow. Just leave good old white people. The back bone of America who all love all their babies. That's who only grows up to be president anyway right? whitepeople . That's what the statistics show anyway. That should free things up for you nicely. Then everyone can be happy. Even you. Cause their will still be a white baby to kill now and then. You have to remember that a happy childhood isn't everything. There is still plenty of life to live after your an adult and anybody can overcome a tough childhood. Being given the opportunity is often the hard part. And don't we like to call this the land of opportunity?

and here's your lack of experience again. you think that gangs come from lack of money? Every gang in LA comes from a family that has enough money to feed and cloth itself and buy the necessary items required to live in LA if they want it. The gangs come from being young and wild and impoverished in relation to the rest of society and then beaten on by everyone around you. That's what creates gangs. and a little greed. The money for schools is never their because in reality the schools are good enough the way they are. now your going to whine, but most people don't benefit one way or the other if they have a new text book or not and your government knows this. Good students are going to learn with the materials they have. It's always been that way. Students will almost always get what they "need", not what they want. Although in california the schools have really improved the last 10 years and are like Castles or big estates now. You can't believe everything you hear on the news which it sounds like you're obviously too young to know that yet as I can see you still like to sensationalize everything. Well it's wasted on me.
 
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I know someone who cries themselves to sleep almost every night because their mother didn't want them. Her mother got pregnant when she was still in her teens. Her mother was going to go to college or at least was planning to until she got pregnant. The girl I know, Ashley, her mother doesn't love her and Ashley knows it too. We're not friends but I know that Ashely is seriously depressed. She's in 9th grade. She is supposed to be in 12th. She's 17.. Normal 9th graders are 14. That's how many times she's failed. Her father drinks too much, he smokes, is abusive, and is almost never home. Her mother and father don't even live together. They didn't divorce though, because they were never marrried. Ashley comes to school everyday and she smells of smoke. I think she drinks but I'm not sure. Let me just say this though: she hates her life. She wants to die. She wishes she was never born. She has no clothes, no supplies for school, she's extremly over weight. Her life is a living hell and she wouldn't be here today if her mother got an abortion. I don't know why her mother couldn't get an abortion but her mother regrets having Ashely. I know Ashley must feel guilty about being alive herself because her life was truly a mistake. I'm surprised she hasn't killed herself yet.

If abortions were illegal, cases like these would become more and more common which is just awful. I don't think abortions are always right, but they are an essential to prevent things like this from happening. I've been reading a lot of people's replies and I do think that abortions should be a womans choice because it's her body. The men don't have to deal with being pregnant for 9 months. Sex always seems to be the womans fault. If she gets pregnant it's her problem and she should of thought about that before she decided to have sex. Well what about the men? Shouldn't they of thought of that too or is it only the woman's responsibility?

-betha
 

SydneyFan

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know someone who cries themselves to sleep almost every night because their mother didn't want them. Her mother got pregnant when she was still in her teens. Her mother was going to go to college or at least was planning to until she got pregnant. The girl I know, Ashley, her mother doesn't love her and Ashley knows it too. We're not friends but I know that Ashely is seriously depressed. She's in 9th grade. She is supposed to be in 12th. She's 17.. Normal 9th graders are 14. That's how many times she's failed. Her father drinks too much, he smokes, is abusive, and is almost never home. Her mother and father don't even live together. They didn't divorce though, because they were never marrried. Ashley comes to school everyday and she smells of smoke. I think she drinks but I'm not sure. Let me just say this though: she hates her life. She wants to die. She wishes she was never born. She has no clothes, no supplies for school, she's extremly over weight. Her life is a living hell and she wouldn't be here today if her mother got an abortion. I don't know why her mother couldn't get an abortion but her mother regrets having Ashely. I know Ashley must feel guilty about being alive herself because her life was truly a mistake. I'm surprised she hasn't killed herself yet.
If you wanted to be a good friend and cared about your friend ashley you would call child protective services (CPS) and county mental health and get her some help. It's free and it's there just for people like your friend Ashley. They exist just for those situations and know just what to do to help your friend.
 

xdancer

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Betha, that's really sad about Ashley, but can you honestly say it would be better if she were never born? i'm most certainly pro-choice (not pro-abortion, pro-choice. there's a difference) but i abhor using this argument.
 

SydneyFan

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Betha, that's really sad about Ashley, but can you honestly say it would be better if she were never born? i'm most certainly pro-choice (not pro-abortion, pro-choice. there's a difference) but i abhor using this argument.
If you're using abortion for this arguement now, as a valid option, then suicide would have to be just as valid. If her life could have been ended back then, why not now?
 
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