Art and Ingame Graphics : Weapon/Armor Realism

[deserttfoxx]

I have seen this talked about on the official forums, but since that place is so difficult to maintain a discussion, i decided i would start here.

What do you guys think about weapons and armor bending realism. Having a sword too big it looks difficult to swing, or armor so ornate and fancy it looks like its more appealing to the eye then protective to your body.

Personally, i am an anime fan, so i like seeing those crazy looking weapons. Massive 2 hand swords like Cloud, Gatz, and Ichigo. Huge bows, real long sword, scythes, etc. Im actually dissapointed sometimes when i dont see the use of cool weapons.

Same goes for armor, im not swayed either way by armor looking to skimpy or it covering everything up. Im not really a fan of the heavy plate armor thing, but i also dont like going down in one swing like a mage.

The biggest issue with unrealistic armor and weapons is functionality. Some people say it breaks immersion is some one has armor that looks to skimpy or swings a sword too big or bla bla bla.

What do you guys think?

 

[Luciro]

I'm an anime fan, but it doesn't really reflect my choice of weaponry. As discussed elsewhere I'd like to see a variety out there. I'd like to see actually unique weapons rather than just over sized ones tho'.

 

[deserttfoxx]

Im not just refereing to oversized weapons, I mean all types. Realistic weapons arent usually unique though, since they are based on functionality instead of making a statement to have your character stand out from some other two-bit grunt soildier.

Unique weapons is what my Original thread is revolving around, may not be worded clearly, but its early. Its hard to stay unique without breaking realism. So, i guess my poll would make more sense with that in mind.

 

[Daax]

Who's to say a giant sword isn't practical?! >

 

[z80]

i chose the 2nd one. i like giant swords

 

[Jaxtron]

I have no problem with the ornately detailed armor or some flashy spiked weapon but the extreme does somewhat distract me. Seeing a sword that is so long you lose half the blade in the ground just doesn't make sense to me. Yea, I know, this is fantasy and throwing fireballs isn't logical but there is fantasy and then the complete removal of reality and physics. I don't care how strong you are, can you effectively use a weapon that is as long as you are tall and three feet wide?

I guess it all comes down to taste. We all suspend belief enough by playing a game with firebreathing dragons, lightning calling druids, flying wizards, etc. so if you want a really large sword, more power to ya. I prefer something a bit more realistic.

 

[HJ-Navarre]

I'm alone at the top. :rolleyes2:

Cloud makes me cringe.

In my humble opinion, If you have a giant two handed blade and can manage to lift and wield it, it should be heavy, slow to swing, slow to block, and you should tire quickly.

Someone attacking you with a light rapier or similar should be able to maneuver circles around you, hit you more often, but do less damage. When that giant Zweihander does hit, it should do apocolyptic, bone crushing damage.

Same goes for armour. You shouldn't be able to swim or climb in full plate and manuevering should be hindered. Those in cloth or leather should be nimble and agile, but should die quickly when any blade strike cuts easily to the bone.

 

[frostydf2]

I think realism is exactly what Simutronics isn't going for. You get to dress your character the way you want, and not be hindered by the old sterotypes. If I am in plad armor, I should behave as if I am in a silk robe. Isn't that ultimately what Simutronics is trying to accomplish?

'Everyone is Unique'

 

[deserttfoxx]

I'm alone at the top. :rolleyes2:

Cloud makes me cringe.

In my humble opinion, If you have a giant two handed blade and can manage to lift and wield it, it should be heavy, slow to swing, slow to block, and you should tire quickly.

Someone attacking you with a light rapier or similar should be able to maneuver circles around you, hit you more often, but do less damage. When that giant Zweihander does hit, it should do apocolyptic, bone crushing damage.

Same goes for armour. You shouldn't be able to swim or climb in full plate and manuevering should be hindered. Those in cloth or leather should be nimble and agile, but should die quickly when any blade strike cuts easily to the bone.

Gotta keep in mind we arent talking about normal people here. If your character is a hero, then he/she wouldnt be bound by trivial things such as weight. If he decides he wants to wear heavy armor, but as well move faster then most eyes can see, gottta assume he has trained his body manage the armor so it is at the point were he doesnt even notice he has it on. Same with the swords.

You should see cloud fight in advent children, simply amazing , though he spend the majority of his fight in the air, probably because he cant swing a sword like that standing with 2 feet planted on the ground, but his battle style is adjusted so it doesnt look out of place.

I think the whole arguement of functionality comes with the idea that most mmos have imbedded into the system today, that our so called heros are zeros. When you play mmos today nothing about our character feels heroic, especially when you add raids into the mix. So we start binding our character to silly rules like, objects being to heavy, or not being able to move as fast, armor providing defense based on looks.

I think lineage would be the best example about armor, armor in that game looked ornate, but unprotective. I seen a lot of people talk about how certain items provide little or no defense. Which is again, thinking as if the hero is a normal soldier, whos to say that hero wears skimpy armor because he or she rarely gets hit.

Now, i agree, weapons cliping through the enviroment and terrian is too big, but im assuming that the weapons would adjust to the sizeof the character. If a guy is 3ft, he isnt gonna swing a 7ft axe, he would just look like a pendulium. I dont wanna see swords going through the floor or walls, but im fairly certain HJ wont be bound by realism when it comes to armor and weapons.

 

[ThatRickGuy]

But would you really want to run into a elf wearing naught but his skivies with an armour rating as high as the tin can sitting next to him with full plate and a shield the size of a bar table?

-Rick

 

[frostydf2]

But would you really want to run into a elf wearing naught but his skivies with an armour rating as high as the tin can sitting next to him with full plate and a shield the size of a bar table?

-Rick

Honestly, yes. I would rather wear exactly what I desire, and have the same stats as another than have to wear chain mail to get the 'extra defense'. This game wont revolve around armor, or the looks of your armor. It'll depend mostly on the Wyr that you have socketed into that armor. It was hard for me when I first joined the Hero's Council to get over the fact that someone wearing plate mail could have as little defense as someone wearing a skirt. However, best thing to do is just accept it, and embrace it. It's going to change the way gamers want to play.

 

[HJ-Navarre]

...If your character is a hero, then he/she wouldnt be bound by trivial things such as weight. If he decides he wants to wear heavy armor, but as well move faster then most eyes can see, gottta assume he has trained his body manage the armor so it is at the point were he doesnt even notice he has it on. Same with the swords.

You should see cloud fight in advent children, simply amazing , though he spend the majority of his fight in the air, probably because he cant swing a sword like that standing with 2 feet planted on the ground, but his battle style is adjusted so it doesnt look out of place.

I think the whole arguement of functionality comes with the idea that most mmos have imbedded into the system today, that our so called heros are zeros. When you play mmos today nothing about our character feels heroic, especially when you add raids into the mix. So we start binding our character to silly rules like, objects being to heavy, or not being able to move as fast, armor providing defense based on looks.

I think lineage would be the best example about armor, armor in that game looked ornate, but unprotective. I seen a lot of people talk about how certain items provide little or no defense. Which is again, thinking as if the hero is a normal soldier, whos to say that hero wears skimpy armor because he or she rarely gets hit.

Now, i agree, weapons cliping through the enviroment and terrian is too big, but im assuming that the weapons would adjust to the sizeof the character. If a guy is 3ft, he isnt gonna swing a 7ft axe, he would just look like a pendulium. I dont wanna see swords going through the floor or walls, but im fairly certain HJ wont be bound by realism when it comes to armor and weapons.

I hear ya, although I think a 'hero' is defined more by his/her actions than by their abilities (Frodo, et al).

Anyway.. I like the realistic choices of equiping different armour and weapon types based on the advantages and disadvantages of the item. If I have a butterknife and a loincloth and you have full plate and 2 giant battleaxes and both armour/weapon combinations are essentially equally matched, I don't think it adds to the fun, it takes away from it.

I have seen the trailer for Advent Children and I look forward to seeing the movie. That stuff, like Aeon Flux too (toon, not movie), is fun to watch.. I just think it is more appropriate in an arcade game like Mortal Combat, than in a deep, character building/evolving MMORPG.

Simu is concentrating on FUN. We know this. I am sure I will enjoy whatever balanced solution they ultimately release with.

 

[HJ-Navarre]

But would you really want to run into a elf wearing naught but his skivies with an armour rating as high as the tin can sitting next to him with full plate and a shield the size of a bar table? -Rick

Right.. The elf might be a better fighter than the tin can and might waste him in a David and Goliath type fight, but I wince at the thought of a sword 'bouncing off' of the elf's un-enchanted shirt or skin, without some sort of magical wyr creating a shield or some such effect. ... whatever.

 

[ThatRickGuy]

"It was hard for me when I first joined the Hero's Council to get over the fact that someone wearing plate mail could have as little defense as someone wearing a skirt."

Now, I'm a complete newb here, but when they were talking about changing the way items determine your appearance, I thought that they meant the bonuses and effects. For example, I could have a plane set of plate mail armour that gave me very good defence, but no "magical" bonuses. If I did a quest or went on a raid I could get a set of plate mail armour that had the same defence, but great "magical" bonuses. The result is that everyone works at getting that one set of plate mail and everyone looks alike. Like in DAoC before any of the expansions. Everyone completed their Epic quests and had the exact same armour.

Later, when enchanting was added to the game, this changed radically. People could get what ever type of armor they wanted crafted, and imbue it with what ever type of bonuses they wanted. Plate mail would protect better than Leather, but both could be imbued to give great bonuses.

That is the kind of separation that I thought they were talking about. The Wyr is the separation of magical benefits from items. So with no Wyr, a naked elf is completely unprotected compared to a sword and board tank, but with Wyr, the elf could be very well protected, just like the tank with out. More importantly though, a player could chose from any number of armour styles that gave them the best defence, and apply Wyr to get their max benefits. I would go on to assume that instead of having one style of armour for each level of defence, you would have multiple. So there could be 5 different sets of plate mail armour that all gave the same level of defence. You could wear and customize any of those 5 sets.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it would seem silly to remove all sense of realism by making armour effectively moot.

-Rick

 

[Luciro]

Actually, there's a lot of arguments against what some of you think is realistic as I've stated elsewhere. About armor, the use of two handed swords, and the materials used.
So in the end it should be ability over looks.

 

[Thaos Nightwind]

I'd prefer weapons were in proportion to body size i.e. realism.

 

[Daax]

iggijgipjgi

I hear ya, although I think a 'hero' is defined more by his/her actions than by their abilities (Frodo, et al).QUOTE]

Frodo was not a hero. All he did was cry with his --- lover, Sam, and then got his finger bitten off by some freaky heroin addict in a loincloth.

 

[Evran]

Lol, I'm gonna go out on a limb here Daax and guess that you've only seen the movie and not read the book? If any two people in the book are lovers (aside from the obvious het couples) its Merry and Pippin. Heck one of them went on to become a life long bachelor and the two of them would often go off on 'adventures' together all alone. But seriously, in order to understand the definite --- overtones in both relationships (and Gimli and Legolas's for that matter too) you have to realise that it was written in the earlier part of the 20th century in England and platonic male relationships in that setting weren't as bogged down by ----phobic notions as they are today.

As for Frodo not being a hero, its more that he is a hero in the sense of continuing on despite his fear and the adversity. There's a nifty phrase about courage meaning going on despite being afraid as opposed to instead of being afraid, but I don't remember exactly how it goes.

Edit: Silly language filters. How can anyone carry on a decent conversation when basic words are edited out. Word to the wise: g-a-y and h-o-m-o-phobic are not bad words. :rolleyes2:

 

[deserttfoxx]

If any of my characters ever devolved into soemthing as pathetic as frodo or sam i would concider myself a failure.

To me Heroic is defined by looks as much as abilities. Who wants a hero that looks mediocre. Imagine your favorite hero, power and all, but hes not wearing his cool attire, instead he has a tired look in his face, and tattered crusty looking rags. Would you respect/fear/look up to a guy like that?

If the guy cant look cool, he isnt a hero, and if he is bound by stupid laws, he cant be a hero. Thats just how i look at it, interms of my character anyway.

 

[Daax]

wow desert, that is a little...shallow.....