Bigfoot : Hidden unproven lifeform or a World wide folktale

[ByGoneYrs]

Hello everyone, lets chat about the existence of Bigfoot (Sasquatch). What do you think, is it a real creature that has not yet been proven to actually exist? Or is it a world wide folktale that has many names in different regional areas and seems to be talked about around the world? Has anyone had any sightings or know anyone that has had a encounter. Is anyone involved in searching for the creature? Lets talk about it and see what we can come up with.

Now to start with I have never had a encounter where I could say I have had an encounter with Bigfoot. Now I have gone out with friends to look for it but we have never ever even found a foot print. In my case I was brought up in a very rural upbringing. I learned to Camp, Trapping, Hunting and Fishing in my youth. I was never a Boy Scout, but rather learned my skills from ex Seals, and ex Green Brete. I guess that is why I joined the army and became a US Army Airborne Ranger. Now I trained as both a Cavalry Scout & Forward Observer, and became a Sniper. I even took specialized winter survival and northern forest survival training courses. So I have the skills to hunt real well in north America forests and lands. Many of my friends that I also go out hunting with also, have many of the same skills or much better. None of us have ever encountered anything, but we keep trying.

Also let me point out that although I go out hunting with my friends, and I am armed like them. I do not shoot any animals. For me after being a Sniper and actually hunting humans that could shoot back, what is the fun with hunting a animal that can't shoot back. Now I can shoot and kill something, I just don't like it as a sport. Now I would only kill something to defend or for food. I will say though that if I did encounter a bigfoot, to prove it exist I would shoot to kill. The only way to prove that Bigfoot exists, would be to bring a body in.

I know this sounds rather harsh, but I have gotten into heated debates with others that are in the field of hunting Bigfoot. They mostly want to find a hair sample, catch a pic of it, getting audios and finding tracks. To a group of those that want to find Bigfoot, bringing in a body would be all the proof anyone could need. Once that first body is brought in and verified, then the world will change.

So what does everyone else think?

 

[Tom]

Its called Cryptozoology.
Darwin created a list of flora and fauna he encountered.
This is not about Darwin but it does drive the point that mankind has only been cataloging species for a very short time, relatively.
Since there are still parts of this planet that are unexplored, I'm sure there are flora and fauna that have not been cataloged and possibly never encountered by mankind to which an accounting survived.
But, this is not about the unencountered either.

This is about legendary cryptids and the tales told to illicit wonder, awe, amazement, fear or dread in other people. The legends initiate curiosity that spurs expeditions to verify them. Most find no proof where others, finding no proof, convey a tale to justify their expenditures of time, energy and resources.

The Nessie photo that caused so much attraction to find the Loch Ness Monster was revealed to be a hoax by a doctor. The famous Bigfoot photo was confessed to be a hoax.

While some people might have actually had an encounter with something, it is more likely it was an unknown to them or unconfirmed animal and their expectations were high enough to allow their minds to fill in the blanks with the legends.

Plus there is the complete lack of evidence despite an exhaustive search.
Even if ole Harry is super intelligent and on top of it all there will be evidence that can't be accounted for.
He would have to not only gather up all his people's spoor and fibers but he will have to hide all that, including their dead remains in a spot that humans can never find.

Plus, consider the fact that humans have satellites that can focus on infrared targets on the ground and track their movements. A discover of this magnitude would warrant a sweep of 'target' areas and any concentration of infrared signatures would warrant an investigation. All to that the popularity of drones and the ease of attaching sensors to them. Then you have the popular trail cameras and motion sensors.
Sorry, I just don't believe Harry is that smart.

 

[ByGoneYrs]

 

[ByGoneYrs]

As a strange happening that I had once as a 16 year old kid in Upstate New York, I and a friend went out trapping. A friend of both our fathers had a large dairy farm that was rather far out and remote. The farmer had a hunting open front lean-to that was located in the woods on his property in a small depression valley. It was a depression that had slopes up about six feet on three sides and the whole area was covered with white birch trees and low shrubs. The lean-to was built in a small clearing in the center. Now a lean-to was built of logs and had a elevated floor off the ground and had two sides and a rear wall with a peaked roof that extends farther out over the area that doesn't have a wall. It is big enough for 8 men to sleep side by side under the roof and stay out of the weather/elements. Usually a fire is built in the fire ring just outside and beyond the roof, so the smoke doesn't come into the structure. Now on either side is a storage bin, one has some camping supplies, and the other side is dry wood.

So it was me and a friend both 16, and we each had single shot bolt action 22s. We were out there to trap that weekend for Beaver, Muskrat, and Fox pelts. Well we walked in from the farmers house where our father's dropped us off, and it started to rain and it rained hard. We got to the lean-to and it was almost dark. Now we had to pull out all these sticks and debris that was in the lean-to, and then set up camp. We checked out the firewood bin and it was almost totally empty. We pulled the fire pit iron ring in under the roof so the water wouldn't rain on the fire. We broke up all the sticks and debris, and put the last of the wood into the fire rim and started our fire. We really didn't have much wood and everything around the lean-to was soaked. we started stripping Birch bark off the trees to help out if we needed light to look for more wood to burn.

After about 2-3 hours our fire started to die and we needed more wood, we started to scavenge for wood and things to burn to keep the fire burning. We started finding a few more logs to keep the fire going but not much. At about midnight it stopped raining. It was a moonless night and the clouds seem to blow off. At about 1am we started to hear noises like something circling the lean-to up in the high backs of the depression. We heard some noises that sounded like rocks/boulders rolling down hill. We kept tossing the birch bark in the fire to get the light bright for a short time. We even lit some flares to get more light. We fired our rifles off in the air hoping the noise would scare off what ever it was. The only thing we could think it was could be a bear, and a 22 would only piss off a bear if we hit it. So this dragged on till first light and we didn't sleep all night and it was rather cold and wet.

So the next morning we packed up our stuff and hiked back to the farmers home and told him and called our fathers to come get us. The next weekend our two fathers and the farmer along with us returned with rifles because we thought there was a bear in that area. Now all three of the adults were all ex military; my father was a Seabee, my friends dad was a Ex Seal, and the farmer was a Ex Green Beret. They were armed to hunt bear, we kids each had an Winchester rifle to defend ourselves incase we did find a bear. Now we got there and the adults walked around and found no tracks but did notice that a number of small boulders were pulled out of the ground and rolled down the sides around the lean-to. A bear could do that, but they were not known to do that. Thus we had no idea what circled the lean-to up on the hill about 100 feet away on all sides for 5-6 hours.

What was it, we have no idea. Something moved those bowling ball sized boulders out of the ground and down the hills all around the lean-to. There were about 7 boulders that were moved. There was no other evidence of anything. So unknown encounter, most likely a bear!

 

[sci-fi-dude]

I will take the route of the Jester, I have never seen one, its possible that one exists so one must have an open mind on that subject. If I'm not mistaken Shaq, aka, big diesel, aka Kazam is truly big foot....

 

[ByGoneYrs]

Now another related happening is one I got from a Great Uncle who has now since passed on, but one that he told to my parents and myself when they came to visit us. He owned a horse farm in Wisconsin, that was rather remote. Now he had owned the farm for over 30+ years, but he stated that he had never seen Bigfoot. He has reported that he has seen footprints and heard strange screams and calls in the night from the woods. He stated that he has no idea what makes these strange sounds, and that no animal that he knows of can make these noises. He has stated he's never seen anything a unknown creature but that those noises are enough to scare him. He stated that he had a pack of 5 beagles, but at night they all stayed inside the home and were always nervous when ever those screams would happen.

So once again we have a unknown happening, but no real evidence that proves anything.

 

[Tom]

I came across reference this morning about the film

The Beast of Bray Road (2005)
R | 1h 20min | Horror | 1 September 2005 (USA)

Based on actual accounts of werewolf sightings in Walworth County, Wisconsin, the film follows a local sheriff who is finally forced to accept that a string of horrifying deaths is linked to a predator which possesses DNA of both man and wolf.​

Wiki:
The Beast of Bray Road (or the Bray Road Beast) is a cryptid, or cryptozoological creature first reported in 1936 on a rural road outside of Elkhorn, Wisconsin. The same label has been applied well beyond the initial location, to any unknown creature from southern Wisconsin or northern Illinois. This paranormal report describes as having similar characteristics to those reported in the initial set of sightings.

Bray Road itself is a quiet country road near the community of Elkhorn. The rash of claimed sightings in the late 1980s and early 1990s prompted a local newspaper, the Walworth County Week, to assign reporter Linda Godfrey to cover the story. Godfrey was initially skeptical, but later became convinced of the sincerity of the witnesses. Her series of articles later became a book titled The Beast of Bray Road: Tailing Wisconsin's Werewolf.

The Beast of Bray Road is described by purported witnesses in several ways: as a bear-like creature, as a hairy biped resembling Bigfoot, and as an unusually large (2–4 feet tall on all fours, 7 feet tall standing up) intelligent wolf-like creature apt to walk on its hind legs and weighing 400-700 pounds. It also said that its fur is a brown gray color resembling a dog or bear.

Although the Beast of Bray Road has not been seen to transform from a human into a wolf in any of the sightings, it has been labeled a werewolf in newspaper articles.

A number of animal-based theories have been proposed. They include that the creature is an undiscovered variety of wild dog, a waheela (said to be a giant prehistoric wolf similar to Amarok), or a wolfdog or a coydog.

It is also possible that hoaxes and mass hysteria have caused some falsehoods and sightings of normal creatures to all be artificially lumped under the same label. Concurrently with the sightings in Wisconsin, there was a rash of similar encounters in the neighboring state of Michigan. Following the release of "The Legend", a popular song about the Michigan Dogman in 1987, author Steve Cook received dozens of reports, including photograph and film evidence of the creature. There is no known link between the sightings in adjoining states, other than the similarity of the creature described.

Real Wolfmen, Beast of Bray Road, Werewolves, Dogmen and Other Upright Canids

Free Download The Beast of Bray Road: Tailing Wisconsin's Werewolf PDF ePub

 

[Tom]

How likely is a Bear-Wolf?

Bears and dogs are not closely related enough to breed. Dogs have 78 chromosomes, bears have only 74. Dogs are closely related enough to breed with wolves, coyotes, and jackals.

How likely is a Man-Chimp?

In general, two types of changes prevent animals from interbreeding. ... The further apart two animals are in genetic terms, the less likely they are to produce viable offspring. At this point, humans seem to have been separate from other animals for far too long to interbreed.

The Mad Scientist Creature Feature

Given mankind's advances in gene manipulation, at sometime in the future, genetic cross-breeding could possibly be done in a lab. The product will likely not flourish and live long enough to breed naturally.
Cross-species mutations in the wild are mutations. Only the mutations that survive long enough to breed can pass the mutations along to the next generation. Evolutionary mutations are the driving force in creating a new species.

The anti-Darwin industry among fundamentalist Christians has produced thousands of pages of misinformation in their attempt to tar and feather the theory of evolution.

Scientific Ethics and Stalin's Ape-Man Superwarriors

in the human species the chromosomal abnormalities make humans totally different.

The mildest possible chromosomal abnormalities are 47, XYY.Triple X syndrome (47, XXX),Turner syndrome(45, X0) and Klinefelter syndrome( 47, XXY). They are in the sexual chromosomes, which are relatively small chromosomes, there is a high degree of infertility and low height, differences in social behavior, possible lower intelligence, increase in prevalence of renal diseases.

The mildest possible autossomic chromosomal abnormality is Down syndrome (most commonly 47, XX or XY + 21), which is highly associated with cognitive deficits, low height, highly prevalent heart defects, endocrine disorders, increased cancer chance. Edwards syndrome generates fetuses that almost always die in utero, and around 50% of the patients die in the first two weeks, around 90% die before 1 year of life, and almost all children that live more than that have severe cognitive impairment. Patau syndrome generates fetuses that almost always die in utero, and the ones that come to birth have a median survival of 7 days.

All these chromosomal abnormalities happens in the smallest chromosomes, so theoretically fewer things are altered, and have a really increased chance of diseases, decreased life expectancy and normally sterile. And just ONE chromosome is involved.

Can humans crossbreed with other primates? - Quora

The larger the difference in chromosomes the greater the unlikelihood of a natural cryptid.
The Mothman - Insect/human is extremely unlikely.

While movies (and some low-brow documentaries) may suggest the possibility of mutations like these, the actual science does not exist. Ever wonder why there isn't people with animal traits and abilities out there?
Its because even tho we know DNA gives us our traits we can't splice DNA from one species to another and have it survive.
No fish-men, no bird men, no ape men and no wolf men.
Those are fully in the realm of science fiction & fantasy.

This doesn't mean there are no mutations. Our world is full of mutations.
Thing is a mutation has to be viable to reproduce, not just once but over many generations.
This creates a population explosion. There are many of the new species to see. There are many more mutations that occur but don't flourish. These one-up, short-term mutations could be what we see as cryptids.

Genomic Background and Generation Time Influence Deleterious Mutation Rates in Daphnia

AS the ultimate source of all genetic variation, mutation is an important evolutionary force affecting the ability of natural populations to respond to selective pressures. Most spontaneous mutations are deleterious (Lynch et al. 1999; Eyre-Walker and Keightley 2007), which is thought to explain many evolutionary phenomena, including inbreeding depression, mating system evolution, senescence, and risk of extinction to small populations (Charlesworth and Charlesworth 1998; Lynch et al. 1999). Despite the importance of knowing mutation rates in both theoretical and applied biology, few empirical estimates exist other than those for classic genetic model organisms (Baer et al. 2007), and little is known about the factors influencing the rate of mutation among individuals, populations, and species (Lynch 2010).

All mutation data accumulation is gathered from divergent species.
Divergent species are species in similar chromosomal families.
There is no data on fish-bears or wolf-birds because they do not exist.
A Liger exists because the chromosomes of the Tiger and the Lion are closely matched.
The mutation is possible, resulting in an actual specimen.

 

[Tom]

Cryptids:
List of cryptids - Wikipedia
Cryptozoologist George M. Eberhart classifies ten types of mystery animals under the cryptozoological umbrella:

1. Distribution anomalies (known animals reported outside their normal range, e.g. the anomalous big cats of the U.K.);
2. Undescribed, unusual, or outsized variations of known species (e.g. the giant anacondas reported from Amazonia or the spotted lions of East Africa);
3. Survivals of recently extinct species (e.g. the ivory-billed woodpecker presumed extinct c. 1960, the Tasmanian tiger (thylacine), declared extinct in 1936, or the Steller's sea cow presumed extinct c. 1768, all of which are occasionally claimed to have survived to the present);
4. Survivals of species known only from the fossil record into modern times (e.g. the mokele-mbembe of central Africa, sometimes described as a living dinosaur);
5. Lingerlings, or survivals of species known from the fossil record much later into historical times than currently thought (e.g. the woolly mammoth, presumed extinct c. 12,000 BCE but occasionally purported to have survived into later eras);
6. Animals not known from the fossil record but related to known species (e.g. the Andean wolf or the striped manta-ray reported by William Beebe in the 1930s);
7. Animals not known from the fossil record nor related to any known species (e.g. North America's Bigfoot or most sea serpents);
8. Mythical animals with a zoological basis (e.g. the griffin, partly inspired by dinosaur fossils of Central Asia);
9. Seemingly paranormal or supernatural entities with some animal-like characteristics (e.g. Mothman, black dogs, vampires or some fairies from folklore);
10. Known hoaxes or probable misidentifications (e.g. the jackalope, an antlered rabbit, a popular hoax in taxidermy).

Additionally, Eberhart argues for six exclusions from classification as a cryptid:

1. Insignificance. "Cryptids must be big, weird, dangerous or significant to humans in some way."
2. Lack of controversy. "Someone needs to observe a mystery animal and someone else needs to discredit the sighting. Cryptozoologists function as interventionists between witnesses and skeptical scientists."
3. Erratics. "The out-of-place alligator […] that turns up in an odd spot, undoubtedly through human agency, is not a zoological mystery […] f someone discovers a new species of alligator that lives only in sewers, that is a different matter."
   [*]Bizarre humans (e.g. zombies)
   [*]Angels or demons […] "the paranormal or supernatural is admitted only if it has an animal shape (a werewolf sighting, which might involve a real dog or wolf, or a mystery canid)."
   [*]Aliens "[unless such extraterrestrials] arrived a long time ago and thus classify as residents."
   

Although Cryptozoology is not considered a real science, it is based on the sciences of Zoology and Paleontology. Many Cryptids probably don't exist, but there is a high possibility that others do. In fact, National Geographic proved that Hogzilla and the Congo Elephants, two Cryptids thought to be hoaxes or not real, did exist. If more Cryptids do exist, there are scientific evolutionary roots on to how these creatures possibly evolved.

Every animal or plant listed is marked as one of the following:
List of Cryptids

Unconfirmed - cryptids whose existence is alleged but not demonstrated.

Discredited; (explanation) - cryptids that have a body of evidence against their existence.

Proposed; (animal name) - cryptids with an alternative explanation accepted by the general scientific community.

Extinct - animals that are generally believed to be extinct, but which cryptozoologists believe may have an extant relict population.

Animals no longer considered as cryptids are marked:

Confirmed (animal name or cause) - animals once classified as cryptids but whose existence has now been confirmed.

Hoax - cryptids once thought to be real but later conclusively proven to be hoaxes..

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• Á Bao A Qu
• Adjule
  
  
  Adjule
  
  
• Afanc
• African Peacocks
  
  African Peacock (Congo Peacock)(Former)
• Agogwe
• Arragouset
• Ahizotoul
• Ahool
• Air Rods
• Akkorokamui
• Alicanto
• Alien Big Cats
• Aliens
• Almas
• Altamaha-ha

• Ameranthropoides loys

• American Hyena

• American Lions
• Araǵanaqlta’a
  
  Ahool
  

• Arabhar

• Atmospheric Beasts
• Auli
• Australian raptor

• Batsquatch

• Beach Walker
• Bear Dogs
• Bear Lake Monster
• Beast of Bears
• Beast of Bray Road

• Beast of Busco

• Beast of Gevaudan
• Beaver eater
• Beaver Run Snow Gator
• Bigfoot
• Black Demon

• Bloop

• Brownie
• Buggane

• Bukavac
• Bunyip

• Burrunjor

• Canvey Island Monster
• Carmel Area Creature
• Capelobo
• Champ

• Cherufe

• Chupacabra
• Con Rit
• Cressie
• Crocodile frog

• Cynocephali

• Devil Bird
• Devil monkeys
• Devouring Gourd
• Dey Loy's Ape
• Dingbat
• Dodo
• Dogigator (hoax)
• Dover Demon

• Dragons
• Drekavac
• Dundas island blackfly
• Duphon

• Dwarves

• Ebu Gogo
• El Cuero

• Elves

• Emela-ntouka
  

• Fear Liath Moor
• Flashlight frog

• Flatwoods beast

• Gajah Mina
• Gazeka

• Ghost Camel

• Giant Anaconda

• Giant Bats
• Giant Catfish
• Giant Dragonfish
• Giant Jellyfish
• Giant Rat

• Giglioli's Whale

• Goblins
• Greek Dolphin Monster

• Hawkman

• Hellhounds

• Hibagon
• Hoan Kiem Turtle (Former)

• Hodag (Hoax)
• Hrökkáll
• Huallepen

• Jersey Devil
• Jenglot

• Kaiaimunu
• Kappa

• Kasai rex
• Kawuk
• Kikiyaon
• Kongamato
• Kraken

• Lac Wood Screecher

• Lizard man

• Lone Pine Mountain Devil

• Madagascar tree

• Mahamba
• Man-Eating Lotus of Nubia
• Manipogo
• Manitou
• Mantis man
• Mamlambo

• Mapinguari
• Merman (The)
• Minogame

• Moa

• Mokele mbembe

• Montauk Monster

• Mothman
• Mora
• Morag
• Muhuru
• Murray
• Naga

• New Louisiana Swamp Monster
• Nessie (or Loch Ness Monster)
• Nahuelito

• Nightcrawler

• Nguma-monene
• Nightcrawler
• North Shore Monster
• Oldeani Monster
• Orang bati

• Orang pendek

• Owlman
• Orange Eyes
• Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus (hoax)
• Phantom kangaroo
• Peryton

• Po orangutan

• Popobawa

• Pterosaurs and Pterodactyls in Cryptozoology

• Puerto Rican Chupacabra

• Ratman of Southend
• Raystown Ray
• Riverside Monster
• Rhinoceros dolphin
• Roch Ness Monster (Explanation)

• Sapo De Loma

• Spring Heeled Jack
• Sasquatch
• Seliordsormen
• Sea Monk
• Sharlie
• Sheepsquatch
• Shell Monster
• Shore Laddie
• Sjómaður
• Skeljaskrímsli
• Skunk ape

• Sky Serpents

• South American Dinosaurs
• Storsjöoidiurit

• Swamp Stalker of Boggy Creak
• Šumske Dekle

• Teakettler
• The Buru, Giant Lizards and Giant Crocodiles
• Thunder Bird
• Tiddalik

• Tokoloshe
• Tsuchinoko
• Two-Towed Tom

• Ufiti

• Unicorn

• Vampire

• Vampire Beast
• Vatnagedda
• Voronezh Aliens

• Wendigo

• Werewolves

• White River Monster
• Wood Booger

• Xing-xing
• Xixi Zhi Yu
• Yamakachi

• Yeren

• Yeti
• Yowie
• Zaratan

 

[Tom]

Encyclopedia of Life

What is EOL? - Information and pictures of all species known to science

Our Vision: Global access to knowledge about life on Earth.

Our Mission: To increase awareness and understanding of living nature through an Encyclopedia of Life that gathers, generates, and shares knowledge in an open, freely accessible and trusted digital resource.

EOL is supported by the following institutions:

• Atlas of Living Australia
• La Comisión Nacional para el Conocimiento y Uso de la Biodiversidad (CONABIO)
• Harvard University
• Marine Biological Laboratory
• New Library of Alexandria
• Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of Natural History

EOL collaborates with the following global bioinformatics projects:

• Biodiversity Heritage Library (BHL)
• Barcode of Life (BOLD)
• Catalogue of Life (COL)
• Global Biodiversity Information Facility (GBIF)

Our knowledge of the many life-forms on Earth - of animals, plants, fungi, protists and bacteria - is scattered around the world in books, journals, databases, websites, specimen collections, and in the minds of people everywhere. Imagine what it would mean if this information could be gathered together and made available to everyone – anywhere – at a moment’s notice.

This dream is becoming a reality through the Encyclopedia of Life.

 

[ByGoneYrs]

Is bigfoot a Alien to each?

Is Bigfoot An Alien? UFO Conference Seeks The Truth

 

[Kevin]

While each passing year that verifiable proof isn't found means it reduces the possibility of "Bigfoot" existing I still like to think that there things in this world that we haven't discovered & killed off yet.

I know this sounds rather harsh, but I have gotten into heated debates with others that are in the field of hunting Bigfoot. They mostly want to find a hair sample, catch a pic of it, getting audios and finding tracks. To a group of those that want to find Bigfoot, bringing in a body would be all the proof anyone could need. Once that first body is brought in and verified, then the world will change.

I'd would hope that we, humans in general, have gotten past the point of needing a dead body of a new life form in order to prove its existence. "Shoot cameras, not guns" is an effort I believe in.

 

[ByGoneYrs]

A body would end the BS chatter for ever!