Politics Christianity

not that i was specifically responding to that post - but regardess of whether they ask for us to worry about them or not (which in itself is unlikely), believers of any religion are going to worry about non-believers of their religion. for example a friend of mine in high school had different beliefs to me. she was worried (or more strongly put, thought) that i would go to hell because i didnt believe in going to hell. i worry about non-believers of my religion as well. its just a human tendency to worry or be concerned about people when they dont share your thoughts, especially if you consider them true and strong.
 
sarks_princess said:
not that i was specifically responding to that post - but regardess of whether they ask for us to worry about them or not (which in itself is unlikely), believers of any religion are going to worry about non-believers of their religion. for example a friend of mine in high school had different beliefs to me. she was worried (or more strongly put, thought) that i would go to hell because i didnt believe in going to hell. i worry about non-believers of my religion as well. its just a human tendency to worry or be concerned about people when they dont share your thoughts, especially if you consider them true and strong.
Click to expand...
i dont think that's true for all. as a catholic, it doesnt really matter to me if people accept God. if they want to, great, if they dont, they're gonna end up in Purgatory like the rest of us, so it's all ok. in the end, God is loving and merciful, so it's really up to Him to decide.
 
Hello all! My name is Jessica, you can call me Jess. I am a Southern Baptist, and I find this thread really intriguing. I went to a Christian School for 10 years of my life, and I am now a freshman at a public university.

My belief is that Jesus came to earth as God in the form of a man. He was 100% God and 100% man. He was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, and died on the cross for everyone. He rose again three days later, conquered death, and brings us new life.

That said, I don't judge people with other beliefs. I try to understand them as much as I possibly can, and while I think its extremely important to belong to a body of believers AKA a church, I believe that religions aren't necessarily that important. If you believe that Jesus died for your sins and is the only way to heaven, then you'll go to heaven. I also believe that there is only a heaven and a hell. Nothing else. The reason that I believe these things, is because that is what the Bible says. The Bible has been proven historically accurate, scientifically accurate, and a lot of other things. God has never gone against his word. He has fulfilled every prophecy in the Bible except for returning again to gather up his people. And I believe that that is going to happen pretty soon actually.

I've read through this entire thread...not the one before this, but just these nine pages. And I just wanted to say that I think that God is a just God. He does forgive, but only to those who repent. I also believe that not everyone is going to heaven. The Bible says that the path that leads to heaven is narrow, but the path that leads to destruction is wide.

Anyways, I just wanted to drop in and say hey, and that I think that its really cool that this thread was started! No matter what religion you are, we are all God's children. And He loves every single one of us! And I like the fact that you guys aren't ashamed to step and talk about things that you believe in! Anyways, I hope everyone has a blessed day, and a great Christmas!!! Let's remember the real reason for the season!
 
sydsbiggestfan said:
Let's remember the real reason for the season!
Click to expand...

Hi jess, welcome to this interesting debate. Im a Christadelphian, so i have a few different beliefs to you, but like you and pretty much everyone in this forum i acknowledge that people have different beliefs and attitudes.

I just have one quick comment. Firstly i dont dispute celebrating Christmas, however do people realise that Christmas ie 25 December is not really Jesus birth. I would feel more comfortable celebrating it at the correct date. Im not playing down the celebration of Christmas, however i want to get across to people that Christmas currently is based on a pagan celebration surrounded by mass consumerism and hype.
 
Hi Essa, nice to meet you. Yes, I know that Christmas isn't the actual date of Christ's birth, and that a lot of Christmas is based on mass consumerism and hype. But I'm pretty sure that Christmas is based on Christ's birth. I would have to look up the history of Christmas, because I can't say much more about it. I believe that we celebrate it on the 25th simply because no one know exactly when Jesus was born. So we picked a day and we celebrate it on that day. I believe thats how it went down, but I could be totally off. I think I'm gonna go look up the history of Christmas and get back to you on that one. Whatever the reason for Christmas, it doesn't hurt to remember Jesus anytime of the year! Lol.
 
sydsbiggestfan said:
Hi Essa, nice to meet you. Yes, I know that Christmas isn't the actual date of Christ's birth, and that a lot of Christmas is based on mass consumerism and hype. But I'm pretty sure that Christmas is based on Christ's birth. I would have to look up the history of Christmas, because I can't say much more about it. I believe that we celebrate it on the 25th simply because no one know exactly when Jesus was born. So we picked a day and we celebrate it on that day. I believe thats how it went down, but I could be totally off. I think I'm gonna go look up the history of Christmas and get back to you on that one. Whatever the reason for Christmas, it doesn't hurt to remember Jesus anytime of the year! Lol.
Click to expand...


The 25th was picked not only because we don't know the exact date of Jesus' birth, but because it was already being used as a pagan holiday. Since it was already a relatively large holiday for pagans the church decided to go ahead and turn it into a Christian holiday. It's from the original pagan holiday that we get Christmas trees.
 
yeah i realise all that, its just a shame that people say they are celebrating the birth of Jesus when really the majority of people arent Christian, they are just getting in for the hype. I mean, in a newspaper over here, they asked a poll of who would be going to a church service at christmas -65% said no and those that did say yes indicated that Christmas was the only time they went to chuch. How bout going all year round?? i think its a bit hypocritical for people to only go to church at christmas time and still claim to be christian and celebrate jesus' birth.

Anyways i hope everyone has a fantastic and safe holiday whatever they are doing and wherever they are.
 
sarks_princess said:
yeah i realise all that, its just a shame that people say they are celebrating the birth of Jesus when really the majority of people arent Christian, they are just getting in for the hype. I mean, in a newspaper over here, they asked a poll of who would be going to a church service at christmas -65% said no and those that did say yes indicated that Christmas was the only time they went to chuch. How bout going all year round?? i think its a bit hypocritical for people to only go to church at christmas time and still claim to be christian and celebrate jesus' birth.

Anyways i hope everyone has a fantastic and safe holiday whatever they are doing and wherever they are.
Click to expand...


Well, I do believe that the majority of people who celebrate Christmas are Christans. I don't think it's a shame that non-Christians are celebrating though. To me Christmas is so much more than the supposed birth day of Jesus. It's a time to give back and spend time with family, and reflect on just how fortunate you are. Like I said in an earlier post this was originally a pagan holiday. It was only made into a Christian one by the church since it was conveinent (it was easier to keep their holiday as a holiday, just with a little tweeking, when they converted them to Christianity). I just fail to see anything wrong with a non-Christian taking part in the spirit of the season and choosing to celebrate Christmas in a manner that suits them, whether filled with religious conotations or not.

As for the church service thing, I can see why people may not be attending church this Christmas. For one thing Christmas is on a Sunday this year. In fact there are a number of churches in the US who will not even be open because of low attendence. People have many family obligations over the holiday and may not be able to fit church into their schedule. I know people who have to make half a dozen different stops on Christmas day along with doing their own thing and cooking dinner, they may not have time to fit in a church service. That doesn't make them bad people, just people who may rather choose to spend their time with family they rarely get to see then in a church.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with people who do only attend church on certain times in the year. I'm in the belief that you don't have to go to church everyday to be a good person or a good Christian. If there is a God I'm sure He would understand that it may not always be possible. I remember seeing a movie once (I forget which one) that says God is all around, He's the trees and the rocks and the river. The point being that you can look all around and see God (if you are in that belief) and don't have to go to church to discover Him. Look at my family (for an example, even though we don't attend church at all). Before we moved my mom worked every weekend and the only day off my dad had was on Sunday, so it was just him, my sister, and me on Sundays. He never got to see us during the week because of his very busy schedule. The last thing he wanted to do was to spend our day in church when we could be going on bike rides or to the park or do other father/daughter things. Now both my parents work most Sundays and it's quite impossible for them to make it to church. If they were Christian, this wouldn't make them bad Christians. It would make them people who were busy working to provide for their family. I feel certain that my situation isn't the only one of that kind. I agree that there are of course people who do only go to church on the major religious holidays and ignore the other days, just to look good. But there are also people who are unable to go on a regular Sunday and Christmas may be one of the only times in the year that they are able to.

Anyways, rather long winded, but just wanted to get my point across. Hope everyone has a good one. ^_^
 
I find it weird that people can't give up one hour of their life a week to worship their creator. Once, my friend told me that her family doesn't go to church cuz they are too busy. It just seems...iono. Some people can stand in line for hours for a movie or a ride at a theme park, but they can't give one hour to God. One of my bestfriends doesn't go to church cuz he said that the church is corrupt. I didn't know what to say to that; I love him but it just doesn't seem right to not worship Him because of the mistakes of some.

Of course, this is just me. And I say this cuz my family was brought up in a household that would attend church every Saturday evening, mandatory masses, and masses inbetween like first Friday. It makes me feel incomplete to not go to church and I have never missed one.
 
^^well said.

Me personally attend church or what Christadelphians call the "memorial meeting" every Sunday, the first day of the week to commerate and remember Jesus' sacrifice for us. I wouldn't ever think of missing it, because i truly believe my faith and that is part of it. (of course there are times when i have missed, like was travelling and there wasnt a church of mine nearby).

This is just me. Of course other people have their beliefs, but like nancee said i cannot comprehend how some people dont seem to be able to find time. There is a poem called Priorities which goes like this
(i found it on a website a few years ago, so i dont know who wrote it, apologies to the author for not being able to mention you :blush:)

Priorities

Funny how a $20 bill looks so big when we take it to church, and so small when we take it to the store
Funny how big an hour serving GOD looks, and how small 60 minutes are when spent playing golf, fishing etc
Funny how laborious it is to read a chapter in the Bible, and how easy it is to read 3,000 pages of a best selling novel
Funny how we believe what newspapers say, but question what the Bible says
Funny how we cant think of anything to say when we pray, and dont have difficulty thinking of things to talk about to a friend
Funny how we need 2 or 3 weeks to fit a church event into our schedule, but can adjust it for a social event at the last minute
Funny how folks want to sit on the front row at a ball game or concert, but scramble to get a back seat at church services
Funny how difficult to memorise scripture to share the simple gospel message, but how easy to hear and repeat gossip

Funny isnt it? OR IS IT?

Makes you think.
 
Nancee, I agree. I think an hour of someones time isn't asking that much. I attend church every Sunday morning, and I do other stuff the rest of the day. I have plenty of time to do other things throughout the day.

Essa...I really like that poem, I think I've heard other versions of it before, but it really does make you think, and I like that. It puts me back in my place, you know?
 
I think people, in many cases, have legitimate reasons for why they can't attend church. People no longer get Sundays off from work. Sometimes Sunday is the only day they have time to get things done around the house or spend time with their families. If there is a God, like I said earlier, I think he'd rather people spend time with their families if they never see them, then spend all day in church.


Anyways, on another note, here's something about the exact origins of Christmas and how it wasn't originally a Christian holiday, and infact a holiday that they wanted all religions to take part in and feel included in.

Taken from snopes.com:

The biblical narrative of Jesus' birth gives no date for the event, though it more likely occurred in spring than in winter. Saint Luke tells us that shepherds were "abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flocks by night" — shepherds guarded their flocks day and night only at lambing time, in the spring; in winter, the animals were kept in corrals, unwatched.

It is important to note that for two centuries after Christ's birth, no one knew, and few people cared, exactly when he was born. Birthdays were unimportant; death days counted. Besides, Christ was divine and his natural birth was deliberately played down. In fact, the Church even announced at one point that it was sinful to contemplate observing Christ's birthday "as though He were a King Pharoah."

The idea of celebrating the Nativity on December 25 was first suggested early in the fourth century CE, a clever move on the part of Church fathers who wished to eclipse the December 25 festivities of a rival pagan religion, Mithraism, which threatened the existence of Christianity.

On December 25 (the date of the winter solstice) pagan Romans, still in the majority, celebrated Natalis Solis Invincti, "Birthday of the Invincible Sun God," Mithras. The Mithras cult originated in Persia and rooted itself in the Roman world in the first century BCE, but by the early 300s CE the rising religion of Christianity was posing a formidable challenge to the sun worshipers, especially after the Edict of Milan issued by the Roman emperor Constantine I in 313 CE allowed Christians to practice their faith in the Roman Empire.

In those tenuous early days of Christianity, however, Church fathers debated strategies for supplanting the Mithras cult with their own religion. Since it was well known that Roman patricians and plebians alike enjoyed festivals of a protracted nature, Christians recognized that they needed an alternative to the December celebration of Natalis Solis Invincti. They needed a celebration in which all participants — Mithraists, Christians, and those in between — could take part with pride. Accordingly, the Church officially recognized Christ's birth, and to offer head-on competition to the sun worshipers' popular feast, the Church located the Nativity on December 25. The mode of observance would be characteristically prayerful: a Mass. In fact, Christs' Mass. As one theologian wrote around 320 CE:

We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but because of him who made it.

Although centuries later, social scientists would write of the psychological power of group celebrations — the unification of ranks, the solidification of collective identity, the reinforcement of common objectives — the principle had long been intuitively obvious. Christianity took permanent hold in the Western world in 337 CE when Constantine I was baptized on his deathbed, uniting for the first time the Crown and the Church.
Click to expand...
 
God commanded people to remember Jesus' birth, not his death. (Just a thought)

Jamison, if people really wanted to attend a church service on Sunday (or Saturday for some religions, like Seventh Day Adventists), they would make the effort, and say to whoever, like work, "i cant work on sundays". however having said that, i know from personal experience that some sundays that is unavoidable like shift work, which my dad does. However he makes every effort to get to the sundays he can, and to other mtgs we have such as a bible class on wednesday and sunday nights. you mentioned spending all day in church, that is not really the case. my memorial mtg takes 1 hour maybe 1.5 hours tops, it starts at 11 usually, (some of our churches start earlier depending on where they are around the world), so you have basically the whole day.


Sydsbiggestfan, i know what you mean. God really doesnt ask that much of us, so it reminds us of the important things.
 
sarks_princess said:
God commanded people to remember Jesus' birth, not his death. (Just a thought)

Jamison, if people really wanted to attend a church service on Sunday (or Saturday for some religions, like Seventh Day Adventists), they would make the effort, and say to whoever, like work, "i cant work on sundays". however having said that, i know from personal experience that some sundays that is unavoidable like shift work, which my dad does. However he makes every effort to get to the sundays he can, and to other mtgs we have such as a bible class on wednesday and sunday nights. you mentioned spending all day in church, that is not really the case. my memorial mtg takes 1 hour maybe 1.5 hours tops, it starts at 11 usually, (some of our churches start earlier depending on where they are around the world), so you have basically the whole day.
Sydsbiggestfan, i know what you mean. God really doesnt ask that much of us, so it reminds us of the important things.
Click to expand...


Using my family as an example asking off work really isn't a possibility. My mother is a nurse and can't just refuse to work on Sundays. It's not fair to her patients, and it's not fair to her co-workers when her job requires her to work days she may rather stay at home (like tonight for instance). My father is in charge of a Mercedes dealership that is opened on Sundays. He doesn't have a choice in being able to stay home when he runs the place. It would especially look bad if he made his employees show up, but he didn't make an effort.

All I'm saying is that I can see why people may not be able to make it to church on most Sundays. I believe, and this may be because I'm not religious, that there are much more important things out there then having perfect attendence at church. If someone is a Christian and lives their life as a good Christian should I think that God (if there is one) would let them gain admittance into heaven regardless of their church attendence. I think one's actions would speak louder, because let's be honest there are many people who have near perfect church attendence but do not live their lives as one should.
 
Popular misconception: Christmas is the most important day in the liturgical year.

In fact, Easter is the most important day of the Christian year. Any human being is born, but how many humans are able to resurrect themselves from the dead? That is why the Tirduum is such a big deal and all of Lent. Sure Christmas is hyped up in Christianity and Advent is a time to prepare for the coming of baby Jesus, but it's much more important to recognize that Jesus died for all our sins and because of that, the gates to heaven are opened up.
 
Jamison said:
I believe, and this may be because I'm not religious, that there are much more important things out there then having perfect attendence at church. If someone is a Christian and lives their life as a good Christian should I think that God (if there is one) would let them gain admittance into heaven regardless of their church attendence. I think one's actions would speak louder, because let's be honest there are many people who have near perfect church attendence but do not live their lives as one should.
Click to expand...

Of course a perfect church record isnt enough, i wasnt saying that at all. (i know people who arent very nice that still attend church, but lets not dwell on that). Furthermore a lot of people in my religion live in very remote areas (especially in Australia, which im sure you can appreciate). Therefore they can't neccessarily get to an organised church meeting, and often meet by themselves in their home. However they do set aside at least an hour a week (maybe not nessarily sundays) to remember the Lord. We are commanded to do so in the Bible, so this makes sense. Im not saying you must attend a church on a Sunday, however then again, if you can make the opportunity to do so and it is convenient (for example you live in a city where there are several churches) then i think people should make an effort. I understand the some professions don't allow this (such as the emergency services, due to shift work) but then again if such a job detracts from your worship too much (like every week) maybe its time to find a new job. before any one gets all annoyed about that, that is the reality of it. God has commanded us to remember the sacrifice of His son and to live according to the commandments in the Bible. Some jobs dont allow people to do that. Thats all.

I'm hoping people arent annoyed by my posts, but i'm just telling it like it is. :blush:
 

Similar threads

S
  • Locked
Politics Christianity
136 137 138
Replies
3K
Views
39K
the_alliance
T
J
  • Poll
Politics Christianity + Rock
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
cdd91
C
S
Christian Kane
Replies
0
Views
841
sydandvaughn4evr
S
Back
Top