Epic One of a Kind

Rics

Cadet
I know there are unique, rare, and epic items in every MMO out there, but don't they use that term just a little too loosely? In every other MMO unique, rare, and epic simply means "takes a long time to get". But people always take the time, and eventually many people have this so-called unique, rare, and epic item.

So, will there ever actually be a true rare/epic item? Will there every be an item that is a one-and-only...an item that doesn't have a twin laying around somewhere? I mean really, King Arthur found Excalibur...It's not like he ever wondered through his years "Gee, I really hope nobody else finds another Excalibur." No, there has always, will always, only be ONE Excalibur...period. Sure, maybe other swords can look alike, work the same, do as much, but there will never be more than one sword named Excalibur. There is only one Holy Grail. There is only one Ark. There is only one Mona Lisa. There is only one Declaration of Independence.

Honestly, will there ever be a game where a player can have an item, look at it in awe, and say, "Wow, nobody else will ever have this...ever". Will we ever be able to truly possess a priceless item? Will we ever have something we can call a heirloom?

I long for a time that the thrill and excitement of finding an "epic" item lasts a lifetime; a time where the honor and pride in owning such an item doesn't just last until the next person completes the quest. Why must MMO's continue to devalue our hard work and dedication by snapping their godly magic fingers and cloning our "epic" finds? How do you think the proud owner of the original Mona Lisa would feel if it was suddenly discovered there were actually 10 Mona Lisa painted by da Vinci? "Oh, I do apologize, but your rare painting is now not worth much at all. Don't get me wrong, at least you're still one of the 9 people that have it." How crushing would that feel?

An item doesn't have to be "uber" to be epic, it just has to be a one-and-only. It doesn't matter if that one-and-only is a rock with a name. It doesn't have to do amazing damage, it doesn't have to grant me spells or skills, and it doesn't have to make me smarter...it just has to be one only one of its kind.

I leave you, dear Hero's Hall community, with a poem so that you may ponder on just how important a simple, little, worthless item can be, as long as it is one of a kind. And I implore you, Simu, to give us this tiny request and be the first MMO to have a true rare priceless item.

The Reason For An Item
A simple book with simple words whose only purpose servers
to share a thought, or memory, simply longing to be heard
Or perhaps an old cross amulet stained with blood and tears
Or an ancient sturdy gnarled staff that has witnessed many years
The history of a family can be shared through tales of old
But it's in a family heirloom that the true stories are told
When the end is near and you look back on all the things you've done
You'll smile at the thing you found knowing that it's the only one
You'll pass it down to sons and daughters as your legacy moves on
In it you're spirit will reside even when the flesh has gone
So please, give an item for what it means not what it does
And my only reason for seeking it should be a simple "Just because"
 
Originally posted by Rics@May 24 2006, 11:33 AM
Honestly, will there ever be a game where a player can have an item, look at it in awe, and say, "Wow, nobody else will ever have this...ever". Will we ever be able to truly possess a priceless item? Will we ever have something we can call a heirloom?

This suggestion would pretty much work if every character was destined to find one truly unique item in their career. However there was only one Arthur, King, and hundreds of nameless (and not-so-nameless) knights who didn't have the phat loot.

How does the company pick who gets to have these relics? How do they justify picking one character over any other? And how do they deal with allegations of favouritism?

And how unique is unique? Is a different appearance sufficient? Arthur's bling was some seriously powerful stuff: hell, his tabared made him invulnerable!

Despite all those difficulties Simultronics have, historically, had unique or extremely rare (like less than 10 in the entire game), of which Shapeshifter's Armor is the first one to spring to mind.

I wouldn't mind these being in the game, but can you convince the community as a whole that having this content that is only available to a few characters ever is a fair thing?

I think this idea would work along the lines of what I suggested in another thread: having unique items as a special quest reward. When you die, if the item is not picked up within say... 10 seconds, the item disappears, and the special quest goes back in the random pool of quests anyone can get.

This way everyone has a chance to wield the item, having it for long periods of time would gain reputation for the character, PvP has a lot more meaning and game provides a starting point within the mechanics for legends to spread among the player base.

The problem then is with people storing these items, or leaving the game while having them.
 
Actually, EQ had unique items and by unique I mean only 1 per server. These were always the result of some major storyline GM quest event and usually around the release of a major expansion.

The items you got were ok but for the level you usually needed to be to get them they were nothing special. Mainly they were something to brag about. Even so there was usually an uproar on the forums shortly after they were handed out because everyone wanted one, it wasn't fair, yadda, yadda, yadda and I think they finally gave up on them because they were a CR nightmare.

As Crisisfox said, everyone wants the unique item so you basically have to give each character their own. In a way HJ is doing this except instead of the GM's creating that unique item and giving it to you as a result of a quest we're allowing you to create it over the life of your character. The Wyr system is going to allow you to tailor your equipment and make it as unique as you want.
 
Add that and if you are allowed to "name" your weapons, then I think that will take care of it. Maybe not right off the bat, but after a cumalative quest where you finally defeat your nemesis (for good this time). You get a coronation, and the abilty to name your weapons, and possibly get to spice up their apperance (runes added, ect). That to me would be really cool, make your weapons unique and have ti really mean something to you. :smiley:
 
*sigh* Why does everyone think a rare--or one of a kind item--has to be anything usefull at all? Everyone automatically assumes it has to be a sword, or helm, or dagger, or amulet. You get the CR hell and all the piss and moans from people because the item has vaule. I'm not asking for a Powerword Kill Ultra Uberstriker Leet Sword of Impending Doom...just take a regular water flask and change the name to "Ol' Dodgy's Canteen" or something. Hell, take the smallest slot backpack in the game and name it "Rotten Worm-eaten Sack". I'm not talking about a ridiculous change in game balance or forcing GMs to reward people with something the player feels will be of worth to them. I just don't think people will throw a huge fuss over things as simple as a crappy backpack or a dirty sock with a one of a kind name. Hell, let a char pick an useless item and name it themselves when they create their char. HJ uses a family system so why not let a family come with a heirloom.

Never was I expecting a game to provide a one of a kind weapon or armor. In fact, the emphasis of my post was on simple, useless, mundane, items. Of all the examples of one-and-only items I gave only 1 was a weapon. None of the others would have any in-game benefit to a player besides sentimental value. The purpose of my post was not to whine about wanting an uber stat-filled rare weapon I could brag to people about, but to share with others how a simple, useless item, that is meaningless to everyone else, can be truly valued. It was more an open sentiment and a pondering on a society as a whole, who places far too much emphasis on possessions.

Honestly, will there ever be a game where a player can have an item, look at it in awe, and say, "Wow, nobody else will ever have this...ever". Will we ever be able to truly possess a priceless item? Will we ever have something we can call a heirloom?
That reaction is that of one I would have to something as stupid as a rock...as long as it was my rock, or I was the first one to find that rock. I apologize if my post gave the impression that I meant rare epic weapons or armor. Perhaps I should have given an other example rather than Excalibur.

And how unique is unique? Is a different appearance sufficient?
Well, to be honest, just a simple changing of the name would suffice. I couldn't pick the Holy Grail out of a lineup of cups...but it's not the look that makes the Holy Grail different, it's the name.

I think this idea would work along the lines of what I suggested in another thread: having unique items as a special quest reward. When you die, if the item is not picked up within say... 10 seconds, the item disappears, and the special quest goes back in the random pool of quests anyone can get.

This way everyone has a chance to wield the item, having it for long periods of time would gain reputation for the character, PvP has a lot more meaning and game provides a starting point within the mechanics for legends to spread among the player base.

Now, if we're talking specifically about a weapon, armor, or any other item that provides an in-game advantage to a player, then I absolutely LOVE this idea. It makes perfect sense RP wise, and game balance wise. You see someone running across the battlefield and are able to indentify them by the legendary weapon they carry. It would also be realistic for treasure hunters to hunt down people with rare relics.
It's hard for people to whine about this.
"Awww, it's not fair! He has that item!"
Response from CS: "So go get it"
 
I don't think there will really be any unique ultmate weapons. Just unique ultimate wyr to make your weapon as ultimate as it can be.
 
Originally posted by Rics@May 24 2006, 04:51 PM
just take a regular water flask and change the name to "Ol' Dodgy's Canteen" or something. Hell, take the smallest slot backpack in the game and name it "Rotten Worm-eaten Sack". I'm not talking about a ridiculous change in game balance or forcing GMs to reward people with something the player feels will be of worth to them.
I guess the only problem I see with this is on the server-side. Now, I'm not a programer (I did take some in school, but not much) and I think that things like that would need to be given a different inventory # and would increase the server inventory. Possibly the datastream could increaseby a large amount if there were a large # and might result in more lag. If I'm totally wrong (and like I said, I'm only guessing) I think that kind of thing would be pretty cool. A family herloom that only means something to you would be pretty neat. Especially if you could give it a written history that could show up if did your typical "information" or "delve" on that item.
 
Originally posted by Morneblade@May 24 2006, 02:56 PM
A family herloom that only means something to you would be pretty neat. Especially if you could give it a written history that could show up if did your typical "information" or "delve" on that item.
Or if a Bard used Loresing on it. ;)
 
Originally posted by Korama+May 24 2006, 06:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Korama @ May 24 2006, 06:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Morneblade@May 24 2006, 02:56 PM
A family herloom that only means something to you would be pretty neat. Especially if you could give it a written history that could show up if did your typical "information" or "delve" on that item.
Or if a Bard used Loresing on it. ;) [/b][/quote]
Yep! ;)
 
Originally posted by Morneblade+May 24 2006, 06:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Morneblade @ May 24 2006, 06:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rics@May 24 2006, 04:51 PM
just take a regular water flask and change the name to "Ol' Dodgy's Canteen" or something. Hell, take the smallest slot backpack in the game and name it "Rotten Worm-eaten Sack". I'm not talking about a ridiculous change in game balance or forcing GMs to reward people with something the player feels will be of worth to them.
I guess the only problem I see with this is on the server-side. Now, I'm not a programer (I did take some in school, but not much) and I think that things like that would need to be given a different inventory # and would increase the server inventory. Possibly the datastream could increaseby a large amount if there were a large # and might result in more lag. If I'm totally wrong (and like I said, I'm only guessing) I think that kind of thing would be pretty cool. A family herloom that only means something to you would be pretty neat. Especially if you could give it a written history that could show up if did your typical "information" or "delve" on that item. [/b][/quote]
This questions of "lag" resources has come up before and while I don't remember the details, a dev had stated it would not be noticable resource hog.

S.
 
Probably right. I just remember in Horizons with all the crafting that was going on how bad invendory lag was. With alot of "unique" items (and possibly seperate invetory tags for each one) I was afraid that kind of thing could happen.

I really like the idea though.
 
Originally posted by Morneblade@May 24 2006, 09:36 PM
Probably right. I just remember in Horizons with all the crafting that was going on how bad invendory lag was. With alot of "unique" items (and possibly seperate invetory tags for each one) I was afraid that kind of thing could happen.

I really like the idea though.
I could see where a large enough dataset of these might cause a noticable stutter when opening inventory for the first time or someone looking at your item. As you said each one of these would require a unique record in the items table of the database so, with enough players, that table would get huge. If you had 100's or 1000's of people hitting the items table at once it could create some lag.

I'm no expert coder and I'm certainly no expert on databases, thats my wife's area but she's not working on HJ, so there might be some optimization stuff they could do to minimize the effect. Personally I like the idea of allowing you an heirloom type of item that's unique to you, something that was given to you by your family or a sweetheart before you embarked on the life of a Hero.
 
Aye, this was brought up in the "Naming Your Weapons" thread and HJ-Royce responded with this:

Hrm... I'll dispute this (at this time).

Most weapons are just that... a Type/Class of weapon. with each one of those having different names and values. (Sword = Broadsword, Cutlass, Scimitar... etc)

Changing the name of the thing shouldn't cause too much hassle since that weapon would "still" be in it's class of weapons.

Each weapon will be tracked separatly already due to mod's from the attached Wyr. So changing the name shouldn't hurt things "that" much. Just a piece of code to get the name of it... which already exists.

Did that make sense?

Not saying it's going to happen or anything... but it's possible and shouldn't affect things that much.

So, if each weapon will be tracked separately due to Wry, there is obviously a way to deal with the inv lag. Of course he also sayd "at this time" so all of this could change.

Regarding mundane items (or non wyr-attachable items)...from what I understand of how this works is that an item placed in a players inv is already being tracked separately. The item is duped from the base item in the database. A command to change the name of that item would not change the ID of the base item in the database it was pulled from, but just that instance of the item in your inventory. Of course I'm not a coder in the least, lol, and I could be 100% wrong in everything I just said. Again, this is just how it's been explained to me.
 
I just remembered something that would be awsome to add to weapons, although impossible and at the same time annoying.

In the game Dark Cloud for the PS2 you could "make" weapons mostly by combining other weapons you found and by leveling them up by fighting monsters ( I think been a long time and I don't have the game anymore). Anyway there was one weapon, a sling shot, the female character in the game had that blew me away. The weapon could talk ! It not only could talk but it was a smart ass. Sure it would occasionally give some help advice but most times it was either taunting the monsters or you for missing them.

That would be an epic weapon in my book. Of course having gm's litterally following characters around with a talking weapon would be boring...for the gm hehe but having a set few phrases it would say during x condition might be fun.


Or course this would lead to quest in itself...to find the magic sock to stuff inside the weapons "mouth" hehe. (suddenly remembers an episode of Muppet Babies with a singing sword they kept quite with a sock in it's mouth :lol: .....god I'm old :( )
 
"Unique" items cause a major problem in games. It drives everyone to grind until they get the same item. Also, as it was pointed out, how do you assign "one unique item per person" on the server? As long as they all have different stats, that would make for either a very difficult balancing act or a very ponderous quest.

I think that since your items will be able to grow with you through various paths + wyr that almost every item in the game will be somewhat unique and tailored towards your needs. What I want to know is, if you have a higher level character who wants to "retrain" an item, can you? And can you do it in a shorter period of time?
 
In Gemstone, Thalior (highest level sorcerer for years) had hidden amongst all his ub3r-fluff something like:

"A plain little lump that doesn't seem to do anything."

And well, people knew not to ask him what it did.

There are lots of extremely rare items in Gemstone that could never be found via the trasure system, so the quantity is limited to what GMs hand out. There are lots of "God auction" items that have numbers <10, and I'm sure quite a wealth of one-of-a-kinds. Occasionally there's a raffle for a one of a kind piece of equipment.

As always, can't make promises for HJ, but the HJ staff is made up heavily of people who were exposed to such ideas.

Goat
 
Originally posted by GOAT@May 26 2006, 08:37 PM
In Gemstone, Thalior (highest level sorcerer for years) had hidden amongst all his ub3r-fluff something like:

"A plain little lump that doesn't seem to do anything."

And well, people knew not to ask him what it did.

There are lots of extremely rare items in Gemstone that could never be found via the trasure system, so the quantity is limited to what GMs hand out. There are lots of "God auction" items that have numbers <10, and I'm sure quite a wealth of one-of-a-kinds. Occasionally there's a raffle for a one of a kind piece of equipment.

As always, can't make promises for HJ, but the HJ staff is made up heavily of people who were exposed to such ideas.

Goat
Er yeah, that was me.
 
I think that Rics was looking for more mudane items (heirlooms, pictures) than uber stuff, but "Epic one of a kind" items makes you think "1337". Don't really want 1337 stuff in the game, but more RPing stuff like personal pics, heirlooms, ect would be cool, if the database allows for alot of items.
 
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