From MMORPG.com

[blur]

Your both swinging blind. The level cap means a great deal. If the cap was 100, then you can easily say that any bonus on leveling up will be boring. If it was 10, then most likely in between levels would be a very large timescale and very humdrum.

Let me know which part of that I didn't already address, yet you answer me like your words are profoundly different or something. I've already said ALL of that.

But until we actually get a feel for what this MEANS (like, what does it MEAN to go from L12 to L13 or L43 to L44 or L16 to L17 or L34 to L35 or... well you get the picture?), it remains largely intangible. No ifs, buts or maybes. Currently, "Level 50" is just a number; just a concept. No more, no less.

 

[WatchMaker]

Unless you have the ability to hide your posts from me, you missed a good bit. What you said was very true, the numbers themselves dont' mean much, since it really comes down to XP ratios ect. But that's all you said. If that's what you meant, then don't get your feathers ruffled at me for re-saying it. :-?

 

[blur]

Yes, but you said that I, among others, was "swinging blind" on this topic. Clearly, I wasn't.

So I went into bat for that. I can't stand by and be told I am, essentially, wrong, when I'm actually spot-on.

 

[Gate]

Hmm, actually Blur, at the risk of ruffling a few more feathers, I really think the numbers do say a fair amount just by themselves. I mean, yes the actual effects of the level to level increases are unknown, but the simple quantity of levels can have a very real impact on people's enjoyment of the game. The act of leveling itself, regardless of other bonuses, has become engrained in gaming culture as something significant.

The entire level system is designed to provide a sense of fulfillment to the player and thus, fulfillment needs to be doled out in proper proportions as there is frequently a sense of diminshing returns. Also, levels give a sense of how powerful a character is- a meter we don't have in real life. Ten levels would really mean the sense of reward was spread too thinly and probably would represent vast jumps in power or even an innacurate scale of how powerful a character was (depending on whether levels provided more power or were just indications of it). 100 levels would result in each level being seemingly insignificant and the power differences being fairly trite. Hence, we see many games going for the 50-60ish mark- because it represents a happy point in the law of diminishing returns.

The cap already tells me a few things without having seen the game- they want a sense of real diversity in character power levels. A level 1 can seem more pitiful to a level 50 than it can to a level 10 just because of the nature of human perception. However, a 100-level span can seem unreachable and godly (regardless of actual effort spent in achieving it) which is also not what they are going for.

Big or small numbers, in and of themselves have a very real impact on our perception and enjoyment of things.

 

[blur]

Yeah, I understand all that... but even L50 isn't to be sneezed at. Even if we take EQ2 as an example, where you can level to L70, the grind to L50 isn't insignificant. And, if anything, you'd imagine that if the games were comparable in trying to keep people's interests, that grinding to L50 in EQ2 is actually faster than what it will be in HJ, simply because there's still another 20 levels to go AFTER the fact. But this is, of course, getting into the territory I am advising cauion about; the area where we just don't know what the levelling between levels will be like and what games, if any, it could be compared to. For example, is it quicker to get to L50 on EQ2 because there's no many more levels to go, or will the grind be the same, suggesting HJ will be a harder game to level in? Etc, etc, etc. This is the whole point I'm raising - namely, to say, "We can be L50! Whoop-dee-doo!" doesn't mean so much, to me at least, until I know what that grind to 50 is actually LIKE.

 

[Jaraeth]

I have a level 35 character in Anarchy Online. About halfway in EQ, or more than halfway in some games. But I've stopped with that particular character is getting a pain, *at level 35*. But why the big deal? There's 220 levels. So there, I can see the numbers mean something.

To me, where the numbers "don't always" mean a big deal, they mean steps or advantages where I am able to spend a few more points in a skill, and having more skill makes me happier. That's about all the numbers mean, until they become too painful of a grind, then I start counting... only 5,298,097 more mobs till ding... only 5,298,096 more mobs till ding...

 

[blur]

Yes, the numbers mean a big deal to you because the game is feeling like a grind at L35 for you... but what if it wasn't? There is nothing to stop a game with stacks of levels from being a relative breeze through the first 20, 30 or even 40 levels, either. So, again, until we know what the HJ grind is actually LIKE, L50 is just a number. For example, let's take the flipside... let's say HJ starts to feel like a total grind around L8... and you'll think, "My god, there's another 42 levels to go!" There's a prime example of how having a lower level cap than other games really means jack if the actually levelling is different to other titles and starts to feel like more of a grind earlier in the process. Which has been my whole point all along. We need to wait and see.

 

[Jaraeth]

.... We need to wait and see.

Basically. Yes.

 

[Farwalker]

I thought it was an interesting read and perhaps we could begin discussing this if it has not been already. I apologize if it has.

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/1028

I read the linked article. I agree with it.

I played WoW for about a year. WoW came to mean World of Waiting for me. I leveled up 4 level 60 characters and 1 level 59 by the time that I quit in frustration and anger at the time wasted tryng to get a a group together to do the "End-Game" raids.

Additionally, I was frustrated in the lack of rewards (gear) that I got for dozens of "runs" in a particular instance for the chance of a piece of gear to drop, for the chance to roll on it against other raid party members. This resulted in hundred of hours of play time with absolutely no gear to show for it.

In the final week of my WoW play I went on a few raids to try to get a few differnet items. Three times I had the items "stolen" from me by a pick-up raid member.
By "stolen" I mean that the party member ignored the agreed upon rules to allow those who wanted a chance at an item if it dropped, or a member rolled on an item that his class could not use merely to take and sell for gold.
It became clear that I was not going to get the gear that I wanted in the time frame that I was willing to invest, even though I was playing WoW at least 40 hours per week sometimes much more . . . for about a year.

If Heros Journey can construct a game which does away with the gear and level oriented game play; but instead makes it a game that values the character's skill and accomplishments at all levels; as well as, include the ability to play solo through a rich game content that seems new and fresh, so as to do away with the waiting to assemble groups and raiding. I would like to try the game.

A multi-faceted game that can appeal to various types of gamers is probably difficult to design and balance. I hope that this game turns out to be one that I can play without having to invest a majority of my waking hours to it to experience most of the game.