Game Design vs. Player Culture

[Shaduu]

One thing that has fascinated me with the growth of MMORPGs is the interplay between the world that the designers create, and how activity within that environment shapes the player experience.

By way of example, I'll offer an observation from DR. In the early days, the square outside of the bank in Crossing was just that...a square outside of a bank. You went through it to get to the bank, nothing more.

But the urban rangers are active and avaricious folks, and money disappeared from unwary pockets. So business transactions began to happen right outside the bank, to minimize the window of vulnerability when carrying cash. Get your money and RUN to the bank. The square got a little more crowded on a regular basis.

Then the player economy grew enough that a whole new entrepreneurial class began to grow. The Indiana Jones types who searched for and found, sometimes at great peril, rare artifacts or weapons evolved. Then they'd want to sell their booty. Rare item brokers came into being. Or our adventurers just sold them themselves. Where to find a likely customer base? You guessed it...the square outside the bank. Eventually, this little piece of real estate became a roaring, tumbling crowd of buyers and sellers, and pickpockets, and just those who wanted a crowd to practice hiding and perception..and...

So here's my question...do you think that the original game designers anticipated just where the "heart" of the city would grow? Was it merely a product of how the population chose to interact in their world? A little of both?

And should game designers be reacting to the evolution of the society and culture, or just let it evolve?

I'm reminded of the design of a new university campus a few years back. There was great debate over where to put the paths so as to best accommodate student use. The architects worried and aged and argued. Finally, somebody, whose wisdom I am forced to really admire, ordered that NO paths would be put in. Just grass. Then they turned the students loose. After three months, the tracks in the grass, and the width and depth of the worn spots provided a practical analysis of where traffic would naturally flow. And they built paths where the students had voted with their feet.

Can game designers do something like that? Do they? Should they?

 

[Dirk Gently]

I'm reminded of the design of a new university campus a few years back. There was great debate over where to put the paths so as to best accommodate student use. The architects worried and aged and argued. Finally, somebody, whose wisdom I am forced to really admire, ordered that NO paths would be put in. Just grass. Then they turned the students loose. After three months, the tracks in the grass, and the width and depth of the worn spots provided a practical analysis of where traffic would naturally flow. And they built paths where the students had voted with their feet.

Can game designers do something like that? Do they? Should they?

We did this at a themepark that I used to work for, many years ago. Plus I have seen ot done at two other Universities as well. USM in Mississippi and WKU here in Kentucky.

And actually, I think that game designers should have mechanisms in place to adapt the game to developing trends within a game. Be it economic evolution, or PvP styles or what have you.

What should not be messed with is the over all premise of the game, such as Star Wars as an example. Star Wars Galaxy Devs eventually caved to the "let everybody be Jedi" crowd, combined with those in that company that obviously thought that Jedi = greater player base. So in effect this was adapting to what was percieved as a popular demand by their gaming public. Unfortunately they ruined the game by doing this because they actually destroyed some of the mechanisms that were working very well and had a solid player base.
Crafters, for example, or our much beloved Creature Handlers, or effective multiclassing.

 

[Docmdnite]

i think in today's designer thought process they do consider it. look at IF in WoW for example. the area outside the AH in IF is an enormous open space with the bank AND a vendor directly across from it. PLUS that bridge directly in front of the AH is a significant land mark.

ME: where are you

Seller of Lewt: on the AH Bridge

i dont know about EQ2 but i am willing to bet something similiar exists.

what i dont think the WoW devs realized was HOW active that spot would be in IF. it got so bad that Ironforge became known as Lagforge which eventually led to the linked AH concept. for you non-WoWers they put an AH(Auction House) in each major city and they were linked. they also made chat in these 3 cities linked as well.

also, lets look at SWG. when you went to the bank, the public vendors were in the same location as the bank. and when you went to Lagonet, sorry Coronet the area just outside the spaceport was a huge open area. i think they expected people to stand just outside the spaceport spamming their wares. again, i dont think they expected everyone to do it all in Coronet. i think they thought it would be dispersed more around the galaxy but they should have known better.

so yeah i think they take this idea into consideration but i dont think they forsee how enormous these areas will become. but i dont blame them for that, i have yet to see anyone named Nostrodamus in credits of a game i play.

 

[Nnem]

I also think its something that game designers think about, however I dont think they expect it to turn out so popular.

I.E In DAoC theres a small area that has a bridge, a hill and an open area. Right next to all of this is a place to re after you have died. It didnt take much time for this small region to become come of the top PvP areas.

Game designers, I assume, do one of the ... "Hey, this would be convienant..."
and after that, the whole thing kinda blows up

Then there are the "What do you think would happen if...", things that happen too, which is what I think your bank scenerio would be.

IMO

 

[Luciro]

You know what bit of game design I miss from EQ 1? You don't? Okay then I'll share. Places like the Hole and the Arena zones. Just so off the wall it'd take a player months to find them, days to check it out, then just a moment to say.. "Well f't what does this do?"
I don't think enough MMOs take advantage of easter eggs like this to drive player culture anymore.

 

[blur]

I think devs can certainly create areas where they want to channel players to do certain things... indeed, if they provide banks and vendors and all sorts of good stuff, it becomes hard for players NOT to use those areas for that purpose. So, in some games, I think it's clear that the devs can do this... in other games, if the devs don't deliberately create areas, then the player base WILL find its own places to congregate for whatever reason. Ultimately, the most power rests with the devs.

 

[HJ-Diviana]

I really miss being able to lock perception at the bank. Now I have to juggle those damn dragons all day long, compared to two or three searches at the bank. :/

 

[Daax]

I think the devs should observe common player patterns and travel areas, and then use that info to better help the players.

 

[Nnem]

I think the devs should observe common player patterns and travel areas, and then use that info to better help the players.

What do you mean?

 

[blur]

I guess he means look at where people congregate and, perhaps, offer services there.

 

[Nnem]

I guess he means look at where people congregate and, perhaps, offer services there.

But are people gonna be haning out on the hill if there arent any services?

 

[Evran]

That little example of the DR Crossing Bank Square goes a bit further.... Once the area became THE place to hang out in the central province, people could train various skills incredibly easily... often with little or even no effort. Thus the GMs got together and decided that no one could sell items or mention stealing, and set the town guards to arrest anyone who attempted to partake in such activities in a blatant fashion. Now the area is a ghost town, because no one wants to hang out there anymore.

So to anwer your question in a way... Simu GMs did very much react to a game balance issue (people were able to learn astronomical amounts of perception just by sitting in the room AFK) which had a major side effect on a player created culture. Sometimes the two are inseparable.

I think the GMs should absoulutely follow player's lead once the game is live. There's a blurb I've heard before that says once the game goes live it belongs to the players not the GMS, they are simply its caretakers. An example where this happened was in FFXI... Ninjas were designed as another damage dealing class, but the players took it in a completely different direction as a tank. The GMs, rather than changing the abilities to force players to play as a damage dealer, created new items that better reflected the tanking style of play.

That's not to say that every player culture creation is a good thing. A situation that affects gameplay in a negative or unbalancing way should very much be squashed, even if it is unpopular. Case in point, the DR Bank Square. Maybe not everyone agreed with the method, but a solutino was needed. (Yeah, I miss the bank too Div... though I know its for the best )

 

[blur]

But are people gonna be haning out on the hill if there arent any services?

As discussed earlier, sometimes a location will have a very distinctive feature - like a bridge - which means people will sometimes meet there because it's easy for people to find.

 

[Daax]

I guess he means look at where people congregate and, perhaps, offer services there.

Yes. Hook a brother up with a McHerohut and a restroom out near that crowd by the bridge. Get some economy goin.

 

[blur]

Lol...

 

[WatchMaker]

I think players are drawn to places that are the most familiar to them.

 

[blur]

And that often involves some kind of visual cue, yes?

 

[WatchMaker]

Not always, but yes.

 

[blur]

So in a visual game, what else would they be working from?