T
tasoli
Guest
It's amazing to me some people don't believe in it. Post a simple do or don't please, I'd just like to get a feel for the percentages.
T
tasoli
Guest
Actually it is. Surprisingly, there are people who don't believe the CO2 we blow out everyday is damaging the environment. My simple poll is, do you?
No the question is not simple.
The key is "we blow out". Forest fires are a major source of CO2. In addition you have the loss of the plant life that removes CO2 from the air. We manage forest fires that used to burn out of control, perhaps for an entire season. Balance the control of the fires with the man made emissions and you find that the net impact is not a crisis issue.
Does CO2 cause global warming, yes.
Should we strive to reduce emissions, yes but the biggest problem is third world countries.
Are we at a crisis point, no.
Forest fire control
Now combine CO2 with other effects like global dimming and you will see it is not simple at all. Nature is not as easy to unbalance as we think and our demise will be caused by nature, not us.
T
tasoli
Guest
No the question is not simple.
The key is "we blow out". Forest fires are a major source of CO2. In addition you have the loss of the plant life that removes CO2 from the air. We manage forest fires that used to burn out of control, perhaps for an entire season. Balance the control of the fires with the man made emissions and you find that the net impact is not a crisis issue.
Does CO2 cause global warming, yes.
Should we strive to reduce emissions, yes but the biggest problem is third world countries.
Are we at a crisis point, no.
Forest fire control
Now combine CO2 with other effects like global dimming and you will see it is not simple at all. Nature is not as easy to unbalance as we think and our demise will be caused by nature, not us. [/b][/quote]
Sylvado, it's very simple, either you believe this is happening or you don't. You obviously do, I've met people who don't believe forest fires or emissions do ANYTHING to the environment. They think it's all libral propaganda.
Go to Buffalo, NY and measure the amount of O3 in the air... it's baffling. According to quite a few scientific resources, the Ozone layer is actually almost repaired. THe issue though, is that people need something other than themselves, a single thing to blame, as to global warming.
1. Solar radiation is getting more powerful. Watch news on the Aurora Borealis lately? It's getting easier to see across the globe. With solar radiation and solar storms causing havoc on wireless, radio, and satellite transmissions, it is also increasing the amount of heat retained in our atmosphere.
2. The earth is, supposedly, slowing down it's rotation. I haven't really taken the time to verify this, but I've heard it on so many different levels and by so many different people, it's not something I am dismissing with a wave of the hand.
3. Ozone. This is still an issue... But, now with so few CFC's being leaked into the air to destroy it, we're now producing ozone and in some cases, harboring it closer within our cities due to smog and other pollution and contaminents.
4. Pollution. Not just ozone depletion, but general atmospheric pollution is holding all kinds of crud in our atmosphere, which is holding in the heat. Take a look at Phoenix, AZ during winter... almost every day there is a Pollution Advisory warning people to stay indoors and carpool. I'm sure L.A. and NYC are in similar situations... though being in a valley like Phoenix, you tend to see what happens globally on a much smaller scale.
5. Deforestation. I won't get into this... but we all know what happens when we strip the world of plant life. Less regular O2.
As Sylvado said, this is not a simple yes or no. Ozone depletion/correction is not the only cause of global warming.
oh... and whoever it is, stop leaving your trash in my desert! Or I'll wrap you up in a plastic bag and through you out with your trash
~ Jaraeth
1. Solar radiation is getting more powerful. Watch news on the Aurora Borealis lately? It's getting easier to see across the globe. With solar radiation and solar storms causing havoc on wireless, radio, and satellite transmissions, it is also increasing the amount of heat retained in our atmosphere.
2. The earth is, supposedly, slowing down it's rotation. I haven't really taken the time to verify this, but I've heard it on so many different levels and by so many different people, it's not something I am dismissing with a wave of the hand.
3. Ozone. This is still an issue... But, now with so few CFC's being leaked into the air to destroy it, we're now producing ozone and in some cases, harboring it closer within our cities due to smog and other pollution and contaminents.
4. Pollution. Not just ozone depletion, but general atmospheric pollution is holding all kinds of crud in our atmosphere, which is holding in the heat. Take a look at Phoenix, AZ during winter... almost every day there is a Pollution Advisory warning people to stay indoors and carpool. I'm sure L.A. and NYC are in similar situations... though being in a valley like Phoenix, you tend to see what happens globally on a much smaller scale.
5. Deforestation. I won't get into this... but we all know what happens when we strip the world of plant life. Less regular O2.
As Sylvado said, this is not a simple yes or no. Ozone depletion/correction is not the only cause of global warming.
oh... and whoever it is, stop leaving your trash in my desert! Or I'll wrap you up in a plastic bag and through you out with your trash
~ Jaraeth
Karetyr
Cadet
This is not a simple "yes or no" question, boyo.
The concept of global warming is real, yes. However, the human impact is actually relatively small, no matter what Gore says (no, I'm not a Republican, before you ask). We still haven't come close to the average global temperature during the Climactic Optimum which occurred roughly around 100-200 C.E. Global warming (and cooling) moves in cycles, and we're simply on an upswing right now.
The concept of global warming is real, yes. However, the human impact is actually relatively small, no matter what Gore says (no, I'm not a Republican, before you ask). We still haven't come close to the average global temperature during the Climactic Optimum which occurred roughly around 100-200 C.E. Global warming (and cooling) moves in cycles, and we're simply on an upswing right now.
Pietoro
Cadet
Thing is, humans have only been monitoring weather cycles for a few hundred years, if that. There is no way we even know if there is a natural cycle of freezes and warmings every hundred thousand years or whatever. Science is about observable and recordable data, most of what we know about natural cycles of the planet are based on very tiny collections of data, that we just -assume- are universal constants over milennia. It may not be the case at all.
My vote is its a natural phenomenon, since as its already been said, human emissions are only a small portion of the overall amounts released into the atmosphere. Even if it is our fault, its gone too far for anything we do now to reverse it, imo.
My vote is its a natural phenomenon, since as its already been said, human emissions are only a small portion of the overall amounts released into the atmosphere. Even if it is our fault, its gone too far for anything we do now to reverse it, imo.
HJ-Diviana
Cadet
I um, think the Earth is more "alive" than people realize, and it's currently trying to remove the parasites hurting it.
I mean, come on, if you have lice, you try to get rid of them right?
Besides that, I feel that we're starting to tread on thin ice with Global Warming. It is dangerous, but not only by itself, but along with Global Dimming (among other things).
We could completely ruin the Earth in a matter of ten years, just because we can't walk anywhere.
Anyway, maybe we'll have a Cascadia Earthquake, and then it will set off the Super Volcano, and we can have something to blame besides ourselves.
I mean, come on, if you have lice, you try to get rid of them right?
Besides that, I feel that we're starting to tread on thin ice with Global Warming. It is dangerous, but not only by itself, but along with Global Dimming (among other things).
We could completely ruin the Earth in a matter of ten years, just because we can't walk anywhere.
Anyway, maybe we'll have a Cascadia Earthquake, and then it will set off the Super Volcano, and we can have something to blame besides ourselves.
Eve_CinVin
Cadet
That's the way I look at it. Maybe the Earth is getting ready to spew off it's human inhabitants who cause nothing but trouble. Perhaps not all of them, but enough to make the remaining ones rethink their survivability options a little better. Unfortunately, the survivors will probably be the very ones that have caused the most damage to the environment.
Every entity on Earth, fauna or flora, has it's rightful role in the environment and needs to be respected for that.
T
tasoli
Guest
Sadly I'll have to laugh in the face of the people who said it wasn't us causing the earth to die when the felgercarb hits the fan in a couple of years; that is to say, if I'm not dead.
This poll is boith ridiculously incomplete and one-sided.
It's like saying: "Let us determine the truth on Santa Clause.
Presents _____ placed under the tree at Christmas.
I - are
II - are not."
I am going to take this oportunity to avoid voting, but am interested in the possibility of debate on the subject between those on this forum who have researched it and formed educated opinion (I am not claiming to have done either, finding it very difficult to care about global warming at the moment (and yes, I live in a coastal area)).
It's like saying: "Let us determine the truth on Santa Clause.
Presents _____ placed under the tree at Christmas.
I - are
II - are not."
I am going to take this oportunity to avoid voting, but am interested in the possibility of debate on the subject between those on this forum who have researched it and formed educated opinion (I am not claiming to have done either, finding it very difficult to care about global warming at the moment (and yes, I live in a coastal area)).
Karetyr
Cadet
The global warming issue seems to be divided into three camps.
The first is the YOU DUMB ****S YOU ****ED UP THE PLANET AND NOW IT'S GONNA KILL US ALL camp, which seems to have a couple members in this thread.
The second is the OMFG YOU CRAZY LIBERALS ARE N00BS LOL camp, of which there are many members, but none that I can see in this thread.
The third is the HMM.....THERE'S MORE TO THIS THAN MERE APOCALYPTIC PROPHECY OR COMPLETE FALSEHOOD camp, of which there are at least two members from this thread.
Personally, every time I see someone predicting the end of the world, I laugh at them. Unless, of course, they actually have undeniable proof of an ELE. The world was supposed to end in 999, 1000, 2000, and by most accounts, we're still here.
Humanity is not so powerful that it can kill a planet, nuclear weapons not withstanding. Nature is far more resilient than you give Her credit for.
Moreover, there IS evidence of climactic shifts that is readily available - any good glaciologist can tell you this. Hell, there's a whole FIELD devoted to the study - paleoclimatology. Here's a link to a page that offers good evidence against the SKY IS FALLING theory:
http://www.aetherometry.com/global_warming/Section_I_5.html
The first is the YOU DUMB ****S YOU ****ED UP THE PLANET AND NOW IT'S GONNA KILL US ALL camp, which seems to have a couple members in this thread.
The second is the OMFG YOU CRAZY LIBERALS ARE N00BS LOL camp, of which there are many members, but none that I can see in this thread.
The third is the HMM.....THERE'S MORE TO THIS THAN MERE APOCALYPTIC PROPHECY OR COMPLETE FALSEHOOD camp, of which there are at least two members from this thread.
Personally, every time I see someone predicting the end of the world, I laugh at them. Unless, of course, they actually have undeniable proof of an ELE. The world was supposed to end in 999, 1000, 2000, and by most accounts, we're still here.
Humanity is not so powerful that it can kill a planet, nuclear weapons not withstanding. Nature is far more resilient than you give Her credit for.
Moreover, there IS evidence of climactic shifts that is readily available - any good glaciologist can tell you this. Hell, there's a whole FIELD devoted to the study - paleoclimatology. Here's a link to a page that offers good evidence against the SKY IS FALLING theory:
http://www.aetherometry.com/global_warming/Section_I_5.html
Morneblade
Cadet
Eve_CinVin
Cadet
If you want to find knowledgeable experts in the field of climatology, be prepared even there for a variety of opinions. There are "experts" on both sides of this debate.
T
tasoli
Guest
How exactly is that one sided? Either you do or you don't believe in global warming. Either you believe the globe is heating up, or you deny the fact that it is doing so. Explain to me how that's one sided please.
See there is nothing to believe in global warming. It *is* getting warmer. It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of being able to read the thermometer, and maybe record a few annual figures.
Global Warming as the buzz topic people seem to be fascinated with this month is the whole theory that the rising temperatures are detrimental to the planet, it also tends to include a finger to point the blame at humans for this rising temperature, and some wisened old man wearing egg cartons to tell us how gruesome our deaths will be.
So:
"Do you believe that human action is actively destroying this planet through global warming and can only be stopped through concerted and conscious sacrifice by humanity as a race?"
is an open question, whereas
"Has it been getting warmer the last few years?"
is one sided, especially when you are attempting to ascribe additional conclusions to the results of the latter.
Global Warming as the buzz topic people seem to be fascinated with this month is the whole theory that the rising temperatures are detrimental to the planet, it also tends to include a finger to point the blame at humans for this rising temperature, and some wisened old man wearing egg cartons to tell us how gruesome our deaths will be.
So:
"Do you believe that human action is actively destroying this planet through global warming and can only be stopped through concerted and conscious sacrifice by humanity as a race?"
is an open question, whereas
"Has it been getting warmer the last few years?"
is one sided, especially when you are attempting to ascribe additional conclusions to the results of the latter.
