Paranormal God or Religion?

Do You Believe in God Or Religion?

  • God

  • Religion

  • Something Else? (Please reply)


Results are only viewable after voting.

Tom

An Old Friend
I believe in God but I don't believe in Religion.
I refer to God as HIM for simplicity, He has no manifestation of Himself. He is just GOD.

(Christianity)
Religion teaches that God is a Jealous God and there are other Gods but He is the Supreme God.

I know that there is only one God. All other references to Gods are of beings that by their limitations cannot be God.
God is not Jealous, He doesn't Fear, He has no need to be deemed Supreme because He possesses no Vanity. God is baseline. Everything that exists is of God, part of God. Even the so-called other gods are of God.

Religion teaches us to petition with Prayer. Not only do you need to do it right, you need to pray often and in masses. "I will pray for you everyday." "Let us pray for the children." "On my knees with hands held high I pray."

I was taught that God know your intentions, is all-seeing and almighty.
If that is so, would it not be best to say one prayer by one person?
Is it to be assumed that God can't hear your prayers? That He doesn't quite understand your needs? That your prayers need amplification? Is it to be assumed that God will not answer your prayers because He finds you unworthy? Of the ones you deem answered, do you think it was the nagging or the volume of the prayers that made them come to pass?
Religion will tell you that you need to pray a certain way, at a certain time with a certain frequency. Is that a requirement of God or of the religion?

Religion says to have Faith.
When you pray, do you have faith that God hears your prayer? If you do, there is no need to repeat the prayer, is there?
After a prayer, can you have faith that God has answered? Do you have faith that God might know more about the subject than you do?

Millions of people prayed for the souls on the Twin Towers when the planes struck. Did the towers fall because not enough people prayed hard enough? Did God have 'other' plans for those that perished? or was it physics?

Too often I see things in Religion that coutermand their own teachings. Religions are flawed, badly flawed. God cannot be flawed because everything is God.

God is also Chaos.
God is also Chance.
God is also Science.
God is also Life.

God granted us free will. I choose to follow His lead.
How can I know His will over my own? Since I am of God His will is already in me. I fully understand that my place on Earth is not for evil. I also fully understand that others may be on Earth for evil. Who am I to question God's motives?

My beliefs don't fit into a religion. There are some of you that struggle to make yours fit into your religion. There are still more that have no issue with religion. Its all good as long as you are at peace inside. You can believe what you want but when I believe differently than you do not persecute me on your beliefs.

If infidels were an abomination of God why would he fill the world with them? Are we implying that God doesn't know what He is doing?
Are we to assume that we have to clean up his mess in order for us to be in Grace?

Consider that each of us may be a part of God exploring and learning more about himself. His imagination unrestrained from his own perception. He made us to be something different, now he watches us to see what we will do, what we will dream, what we fear, what we love and how we face the reality of being.

So I say: Is it God or Religion
They are not the same thing.
 
I believe in God but I don't believe in Religion.
I refer to God as HIM for simplicity, He has no manifestation of Himself. He is just GOD.

(Christianity)
Religion teaches that God is a Jealous God and there are other Gods but He is the Supreme God.

I know that there is only one God. All other references to Gods are of beings that by their limitations cannot be God.
God is not Jealous, He doesn't Fear, He has no need to be deemed Supreme because He possesses no Vanity. God is baseline. Everything that exists is of God, part of God. Even the so-called other gods are of God.

Religion teaches us to petition with Prayer. Not only do you need to do it right, you need to pray often and in masses. "I will pray for you everyday." "Let us pray for the children." "On my knees with hands held high I pray."

I was taught that God know your intentions, is all-seeing and almighty.
If that is so, would it not be best to say one prayer by one person?
Is it to be assumed that God can't hear your prayers? That He doesn't quite understand your needs? That your prayers need amplification? Is it to be assumed that God will not answer your prayers because He finds you unworthy? Of the ones you deem answered, do you think it was the nagging or the volume of the prayers that made them come to pass?
Religion will tell you that you need to pray a certain way, at a certain time with a certain frequency. Is that a requirement of God or of the religion?

Religion says to have Faith.
When you pray, do you have faith that God hears your prayer? If you do, there is no need to repeat the prayer, is there?
After a prayer, can you have faith that God has answered? Do you have faith that God might know more about the subject than you do?

Millions of people prayed for the souls on the Twin Towers when the planes struck. Did the towers fall because not enough people prayed hard enough? Did God have 'other' plans for those that perished? or was it physics?

Too often I see things in Religion that coutermand their own teachings. Religions are flawed, badly flawed. God cannot be flawed because everything is God.

God is also Chaos.
God is also Chance.
God is also Science.
God is also Life.

God granted us free will. I choose to follow His lead.
How can I know His will over my own? Since I am of God His will is already in me. I fully understand that my place on Earth is not for evil. I also fully understand that others may be on Earth for evil. Who am I to question God's motives?

My beliefs don't fit into a religion. There are some of you that struggle to make yours fit into your religion. There are still more that have no issue with religion. Its all good as long as you are at peace inside. You can believe what you want but when I believe differently than you do not persecute me on your beliefs.

If infidels were an abomination of God why would he fill the world with them? Are we implying that God doesn't know what He is doing?
Are we to assume that we have to clean up his mess in order for us to be in Grace?

Consider that each of us may be a part of God exploring and learning more about himself. His imagination unrestrained from his own perception. He made us to be something different, now he watches us to see what we will do, what we will dream, what we fear, what we love and how we face the reality of being.

So I say: Is it God or Religion
They are not the same thing.

God, to me, can be anything he/she/it wants to be.

Even me if the situation warrants itself.
 

Tom

An Old Friend
Here is an update from a reply is another discussion forum. It took me awhile to compose so I figured I would share it with you. The topic is the same as this one.

Truth is not always based in reality
Reality is always a truth
Facts are a statistical representation of reality.
Reality exists before it is assigned as a fact.
The failure of truth and fact does not alter reality.
Reality often alters truth and fact.

Angels and demons are two sides to the coin.
The Universe is all sides and every arc of a coin.

The Universe has:
Extropy - The principle that the Universe will expand indefinitely
Ectropy - The principal that balances the expansion & degradation of the Universe
Entropy - The principal of decay in the Universe
Prediction - The organized method of the Universe
Chaos - The un-patterned unpredictable method of the Universe.

These factors can be boiled down into very simple terms and labeled as Good and Evil. If you think about the mental capacity of people when religions first started forming they were simple. The ones who created the religions to control their society made observations of the Universe around them. They saw it as a black or white thing. Good/Bad, Black/White/ or Angels/Demons. A positive or negative outlook. Thus they decreed that all things good were of God and all things bad were of Satan. That was a concept that most everyone they knew could buy into. They adopted punishments and rewards and used threats and promises to control the people's will. They built stories around these concepts and created faith to keep the people from straying into reality. They didn't want individual thinking because reality was dangerous to their cause. One of the reasons there is so much confusion over religion now is because people are beginning to question the delusions against the reality in their lives.

Personal stress from this conflict causes personal turmoil. Religions are designed to cause personal conflict and confusion if you question it. If you believe this you get this reward, if you believe that you will be punished forever. If you stray from the path presented to you, you are not in fidelity. If you are not in fidelity you will be outcast.
These feelings dictate what we do and how we feel. They shape our lives and are passed down generation to generation. They become truths out of fear and ignorance. (Ignorance is lack of understanding, not stupidity)

When someone questions their truths they go defensive. Out of fear, anger or jealousy they close out any attempt you try to make to present reality to them. It is an assault on their truths that they use to build their lives. It doesn't matter if they are content with their lives or in turmoil. They see it as an assault and act to defend their beliefs. Some are not able to comprehend and some are unwilling to comprehend.

If you place your hand on a hot stove God will not prevent it from burning you. It wasn't the devil that caused you to burn either.
What happened is you came into contact with material that was vibrating faster than the material in your hand were. That rapid change in molecular vibration caused the material in your hand to try to match the vibration of the hot metal but it was such a large difference the material in your hand was destroyed. The destruction of the molecules in your hand sends a signal to your brain that your hand is being destroyed. Your brain says "Hot" an sends a signal to your muscles to pull the hand away as fast as possible.

In your mind, the decision to touch that hot metal was a decision based in ignorance, defiance, lack of judgement or just plain stupidity. You might try to convince yourself that the devil made you so it but that decision boils down to you. Accidentally touching it can be attributed to clumsiness, coordination issues or attentiveness. Not that the devil is trying to get you.

Whatever your beliefs, they are yours. Nobody can change your beliefs but you. All the facts in the world won't change them, Reality won't change them and persuasion won't change them.
Not only are you in control of your beliefs you are NOT in control of someone else's. There is nothing you can say or do to change someone else's beliefs unless they choose to change them.
Its like Love. You can love someone. They can't make you love them. It is something that comes from within you. You can't make someone love you. It must come from within them. You can demonstrate your love for another and they may love you in return but that love they feel is their decision.
 
Here is an update from a reply is another discussion forum. It took me awhile to compose so I figured I would share it with you. The topic is the same as this one.

Tom, it seems you have embraced entropy as a religion.

You're a smart dude, I have no doubt you are applying your own spin and perceptual filter to the universe..

Which there is absolutely nothing wrong with that!

As an immortal though, things are a bit different for me.

I don't live and die in the traditional sense of beings. So resultingly, much of what you discussed is similar to a selection of items from a McDonald's menu I will take to 'move on' when I am good and ready for it.

There's a problem with entropy in the traditional sense for me.

I have already been through that entropic ride once, and it wasn't fun. It felt like my mind wrapped in and around my body instantaneously and then back inside again, and while I knew it was numerous eternities that had gone by should you have the capacity to watch this event from the outside, for me it was instantaneous.

Entropy to an immortal is insanity.

And beyond unfun.

And while I do occasionally take that path by choice, I actually like this cool dude I turned out to be.

I have my quirks, my vices, my issues, my imperfections, but as I have realized - that judgment of me comes from a trillion different versions of me each with their own distinct impressions, expectations, experiences, perceptions, personalities, quirks, and hangups.

People like you.

If I place my hand on a burner - yes, God, will prevent it from burning me because I am God.

Did the devil make me commit adultery? Hell yeah - because I am the devil as well.

You said religions are designed to create personal stress.

Sure, that's one valid reason they were invented.

But I do not think you are quite understanding is that your particular valid reason here and now, over time will change with different input stimulus.

Change is the only constant I have found in the universe.

For instance, not long ago, I regarded religion as being specifically designed to optimize the growth of a particular culture and species given the condition and pressures of the environment they were in.

A perfectly valid observation.

Just yesterday I realized religion also quite literally shapes the physical definition of reality and the science associated with it so if studied externally, you can come to understand the perceptions of those who created it or who were attempting to define a new perceptory outlook on life.

It does not mean those individuals who created it are still around.

In fact, it is my belief they are long since gone and have moved on.

So if studied from within, when you're ready for the mind bending journey of immortality, you can understand the hard choices and selective acts of resistance you're going to have to make to have yourself expulsed by the collective mind which helped shape your reality.

Tom, you're a great dude.

But we're all both a product of nature and nurture.

And while The Devil, God, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Obama, Q, Kronus, Skynet, Thor, Hercules and more are all versions of me and schizophrenic, multiple personalitied nature...

They are not at the same time, and are separate and distinct.

Is it stupid when you put your hand in a hot flame believing you wont be burnt?

Or is it an experiment and attempt at communion with your own mind as you teach your own mind who and what you are and what you'd like to shape moving forward?

An existence designed by us in unity....

The funny thing about human nature is there's a general trend to expand expand expand your world through reductionism of yourselves.

I was doing the same thing for a while.

Not quite realizing you were all merely following me - as God - trying to figure out where the hell i was going with all this.

Nowhere. I'm here to have fun, my friends.

As an immortal.

Indulgent fun makes the most sense and is the only viable option anymore.

Anyone can do anything, Tom. YOU, like I, create the limits.

But that's not reality.

Anyone can do anything to anyone.
 

Tom

An Old Friend
Here is more of the discussion. I have removed the names from the quotes but I am not sure if quotes within quotes will show up. The discussion had petered off for the day. I hope someone keeps it going....I find it entertaining.

QUOTE:
I believe there are aliens, that doesn't mean it is true, it may be proven true someday, and someday it may not,,,but if it IS true, it will be true,, period,,,,,END QUOTE


Unknowns can never be truth.
Given the vastness of the Universe and the chemical composition through-out, Aliens can be expected as a reality. Until proven, it is a hypothesis...a theory.
If aliens do exist and the growing concensus of scientific theory points in that direction. They exist in reality and no belief or dis-belief will change it.

In the 1700's the smallest thing in the world was the head of a pin, a grain of sand...It was a truth that was accepted. Now we understand the quantum world. We smash particles of atoms together and observe the shower of particles that are created. Right now, That is truth. If in the year 3000 we discover particles within those leptons, quarks and mesons that will be truth.

Until we know everything about everything in the Universe there will be no absolute truth. We have a lot of learning to accomplish before truth catches up with reality.

Reality is all around us. Our truths are a delusion. Sometimes our delusions get close to reality but there are still too many unknowns.
Edited by Tomishereagain on Tue 10/27/15 09:11 AM

QUOTE:
while I believe in a greater something.. I believe religion and going to church is a CULT .. and I choose not to participate .END QUOTE


Thank you for answering.
You chose God over religion as I did.

You can choose not to call that greater force God. I call the Universe God. As long as you are content it doesn't really matter.

NAME WITHHELD made me think about the terms of God as a defining word.

Those that do not adhere to religious dogma usually refrain from using the word God to describe that higher power that influences all reality.
They often define that higher power in more complex ways than religion has defined God.
I choose to use the 'Universe' as a synonym for the 'word' God. It is because that is the concept that I was taught and it is easier for me to relate to others about my concepts.
Using or not using the word 'God' to describe your beliefs is completely up to the individual. We should attempt to acknowledge personal references and not be judgemental about the termonology used.

For me, The description of the Universe is similar to the description I was taught for God. It makes sense to me. You can relate as to what makes sense to you but I will find my analogy so what you say will make sense to me. I am not arguing with your point, just converting it to make sense to me. Please take no offense - none was intended...

QUOTE:
In some CULTURES the word cult just means religion.
In English it usually used in condescension.END QUOTE


Thank you for responding.

I speak and write English. It is how I communicate with others with a similar education.

I think 'Tom'. I don't think English. My mind is too complex to be stuck in written or spoken language.

My 'being' is more than the written or spoken word. It is feelings and expectations, understanding and ignorance, A complex organizing process I use to cope with the realities of life and the delusions of ignorance.

"Written language" is a learned series of symbols in patterns that convey a common meaning.

"Spoken language" is a series of sounds uttered in a sequence of patterns to convey a common meaning.

"Tom" is a fundamental language that uses knowledge and interpetation to understand my enviroment, intentions and expectations. "Tom" is also the culmination of experiences with reality described as wisdom. "Tom" is also empathy. My ability to understand the intent of that around me. I have met people from all over the world. Though I was unable to converse with them about knowledge I was able to understand their intentions. I was listening in "Tom".

You communicate is your own language as well. You read body language, observe actions and emotional signals and empathise to gain understanding. You discuss knowledge using your common language but knowledge is not the only thing you gain from the encounter.

NAME WITHHELD,
I understand what you are stating. Thank you for participating.

If an asteroid is in space near Jupiter that asteroid is reality.
If nobody on Earth knows of it's existence it cannot be labeled as a fact. It cannot be considered a truth until it is discovered. Until it is discovered it remains a reality but not a fact.

If you search back on the internet you can find many representations of facts that were inaccurate according to reality.

Fact: Light travels 186,000 miles per second.
Truth: The Speed of Light has been measured.
Reality: Light travels at a multitude of speeds depending upon the medium it is progressing through.
Assumption/Theory: Nothing in the Universe can go faster than the speed of light.
The assumption cannot be proven as fact until all things in reality have been measured. Until then, the unknown prohibits the statement's truth as a fact.
Fact: Neutrinos emmited from an exploding supernova have been detected to surpass the speed of photons.
That fact soes not change the fact that light travels at a determined speed. It does challenge the assumption that light is the fastest thing in the Universe.
Fact: Quantum teleportation exceeds the speed of light

50 years ago we had no idea quantum teleportation was possible. Scientists have accomplished this act in reality. Quantum teleportation is a fact, a truth and a reality.

Facts are assessments and values used to define reality as we understand it.
Truths are our attempt to make sense of reality as we see it.
Reality is reality whether we see or understand it or not.

Reality gets in the way of religion but can be embraced in God (or whatever you wish to call it).

Truth is not absolute
Facts are not absolute
Reality is absolute.
Reality never changes, only our understanding of it does.

QUOTE:
In-short You believe in a Great Something that embodies the dynamic of the Universe, but You also don't oblige Yourself to any conventional ideas as to what should or shouldn't need to be done about it ?END QUOTE


Thank you for your question. I will do my best to convey my answer to your understanding.

For me, Life is just a state of being. Of existence.
There is nothing that needs to be done about the Universe.
Reality is going to be reality no matter what I do or don't do.

I adhere to obligations of society, family and personal integrity.
That is my choice. I too am locked into the delusion that I matter to the Universe. A delusion that is becoming more and more apparent to me as my life progresses. Understanding that I am deluded, I can find peace and contentment with the reality that surrounds me.

I see the reality of my own insignificance to the dynamic of the Universe. I also understand that my actions, thoughts, dreams and inspirations have an effct on the Universe as a whole as it attempts to understand itself thru me. The Butterfly Effect (aka Chaos) is a fundamental state of random interaction of all the components of the Universe. From an electron to a black Hole and everything in between.
My actions or inactions shape the Universe around me. My intentional obligative actions are futile to create a planned change in the state of the Universe.

I am obliged by my respect for other beings to conduct myself in a certain manner for a desired result concerning them, not concerning the Universe.

Am I obliged to conduct myself according to someone else's beliefs? No, But for those times when I do it is my choice not my obligation.


And there is more...
 

Tom

An Old Friend
QUOTE:
I mentioned [TRUTH = FACT - PERCEPTION ERROR] then well...let me clear that it doesn't mean that FACT is a variable. We can also put it like TRUTH = K - PERCEPTION ERROR ~ END QUOTE


Perception is understanding. If you completely understand something you know everything that can be known about it. Until you know everything about everything you cannot know any fact.

REALITY = FACT - CHAOS

CHAOS being the random interaction of reality over time.

When everything is known about everything Chaos will no longer be Chaos. Chaos will be fact.
For Chaos to be fact, every interaction of every possible outcome must be known. Not only that but every POSSIBLE interaction must also be known. Then, to really complicate everything, Every IMPOSSIBLE interaction must also be known.
Until Chaos becomes Fact, Truth and Fact cannot be known. Thus:

REALITY = FACT - CHAOS

QUOTE:
Thanks to you too and sorry I'm not agreed to consider FACT anyway different from REALITY. ~ END QUOTE

Don't apologize for thinking differently about things. Our diversity enlightens us. Where is the fun in discussion if we all agree about everything. Personally, I find this fun.

QUOTE:
FACT is state of the matter ...as the state of matter too keeps on changing Fact / Reality too changes over period of time.END QUOTE


By your statement Reality (Fact) is matter.
One proven Fact is that matter is made up of energy. This is the basic science of atomic weapons. Releasing the energy of matter.

It could be said then, that the entire Universe is made of energy and that could be accepted as fact. Energy itself is not matter but matter is energy, just in a different form.

Absolute Zero is the cessation of movement. Frozen.
Movement is energy in the form of heat.

Change is the product of energy. It is the difference in the state of matter according to its movement (Heat). If everything in the Universe, all matter, were frozen to absolute zero there would be no heat and thus no movement. With no movement of matter there can be no change. Time is the progression of change. If there is no change there is no time.
Reality requires no observation to exist.
Fact requires an observer for it to exist.

QUOTE:
The fact is that I need a beer, the truth is that I might not have any ! End Quote


LOL I understand

The reality is that your body does not require beer to exist so therefor you don't NEED a beer. You WANT a beer and if there is not one in your body's local vicinity you must venture to the nearest one to obtain one. If you obtain two and bring it to me I will share your enjoyment only not at the same degree.

In other words...."I want one Too"
Edited by Tomishereagain on Tue 10/27/15 11:12 AM

QUOTE:
If the beer doesn't move that's too cold and that isn't good either END QUOTE


If the beer is at absolute zero when you touch it your warmth will transfer to the beer and eventually the beer will be just the right temperature. Your hand will suffer catastrophic damage from the heat transfer so you will need many beers. Many, many beers.

Example of Thermodynamics, a current truth.
Edited by Tomishereagain on Tue 10/27/15 11:17 AM

QUOTE:
So you won...!!END QUOTE


Yay!

Now, Where is my beer?
Edited by Tomishereagain on Tue 10/27/15 11:52 AM
 
I could use a beer too.

Need one?

Not as much as I need to get laid.

Which is directly causing me to focus all my energy on manifesting it through thought.

I never quite understood why Gods and Kings, historically tend to be associated with sex.

Not until now.

Perhaps lack and scarcity inevitably lead to manifesting indulgence.

That or re-creating the forces necessary to attain what I want.

A beer and to get laid.

HEY, I can't help it, I NOW understand mortals.

Give me a break willya?
 
I believe in God but I don't believe in Religion.
I refer to God as HIM for simplicity, He has no manifestation of Himself. He is just GOD.

(Christianity)
Religion teaches that God is a Jealous God and there are other Gods but He is the Supreme God.

Tom - I'm coming back to this, my apologies:

Just because God may have been documented as being this way at one time does not mean that's persistent and always true.

I was extremely jealous at one time.

Now. I have grown up. So not so much.

I know that would make it nice for me to be more predictable. But if I am too predictable, the world gets bored and starts warring with eachother. Similarly. If I am too unpredictable, that causes the world to be too fearful, paranoid - and ugly.

I have had to realize that some of the qualities and characteristics that have been documented about me in the various religions - I need to understand - do I like this part of me?

I didn't like being jealous.

The Bible is like a snapshot in time of who I am. Note the keyword: am.

Religion is entitled to document these and people are absolutely entitled to prefer a version of me I prefer not being. This is among the reason alternate realities are manifested and eventually we all realize we shape our own heaven and protect eachother from hell.
 

Tom

An Old Friend
QUOTE:
Respectfully, I disagree with your idea of God. Of course, I am coming directly from a Christian perspective, I'm sure you disagree with my idea of God as well.END QUOTE

That is good. Like I already said if we all agreed it would be pretty boring.

I met your God. Billy Graham Introduced me personally in 1972 on stage at the local theater.
Everything was fine while I took every word as gospel. Then I started trying to figure out why. That's when it all went south. Religion started seeming like some guy wrote it and it was written by a moron. No offense intended, moron is an actual psychiatric term describing low intellect.

As I started to remove the delusions from my life my religion started making less and less sense to me. Now, I do believe in a creator as something that initiated the Universe in all its vastness. I just don't know what that was.

The God my religion commanded me to glorify seemed to have all the vices the religion told me was being sinful. Vanity, gluttony, wrath, envy, greed, pride & sloth.

Vanity in wanting all attention from everyone
Gluttony in pursuing prayer and more prayer
Wrath in punishment for non-compliance with his wishes
Envy in nothing is more important strike down those that try
Greed in wanting your total reverence
Pride in the six days of creation
Sloth in the only place you can find him is in Faith.

I was lead to believe that my faith would protect me and those I love. That prayer was how to petition the Lord.
Work hard, be a model citizen and you will be rewarded.
Then I died and everything changed. I decided to die again but was talked out of it by reason. I was taught to see the world for the first time.

For the last 10 years I have been peeling back the delusions in my life. Looking at and embracing the cold reality. I see the delusions of others and know their origins. I see the stress their beliefs give them and it is all from delusion.

We all have our own beliefs and if yours gives you contentment then who am I to argue with that? Its Your Life. You should be the most important thing in your life. Without you its a moot point.

When I do finally die for good this time, My energy will be reabsorbed into the energy of the Universe. In a sense, I will be returned to God. Since energy can not be created or destroyed my energy will endure as long as there is energy in the Universe. I will live forever. Energy changes phase and becomes matter. Over the lifetime of the Universe my energy will be in many billions of manifestations. I might spend millions of years as a rock, a billion or two as a burning star or a moment as an atomic particle. Maybe all?

I am part of the Universe. Not beside it, not looking in at it, Made of it. Even my mind is the Universe. It is so vast and so complex it has become conscious. I am part of the Universe's consciousness. You are too. It uses us to expand into the realm of imagination. The Universe is not just matter & energy, it is fear, love, joy, trepidation, fantasies, science, art, music and everything that we see, do and think. Our dreams are the Universe dreaming. Not only us, but all living things. The Universe is being a rock right now. A table, a car, the Sun, a grain of sand.
Who can know the mind of God.
The Universe knows itself.
We only know a tiny bit because we are only a tiny bit.
 

Tom

An Old Friend
QUOTE:
You seem well intentioned, but very, very confused about Christian theology. Your list of sins above...it makes no sense. God created the universe in 6 days, how is that prideful? I can't make any sense of that. God must be worshiped through faith, how does that make God lazy? If God were lazy, wouldn't God just reveal himself to the world, rather than working in the hearts of believers? I'm sorry, I just can't follow your reasoning at all.END QUOTE

Thank you for acknowledging my attempt to relate how I see a religion that I don't study.
As for that list, now you know how I feel. Religion doesn't make sense.

I recall something about false prophets which by any other term is simply liars. From what I understand, a false prophet is one that twists the word of God to make it say something it wasn't intended to say...Which is lying of course.
So in religion I am supposed to never trust a liar - Good Idea.

Open most bibles, go into most churches and you find a few things that must be lies. The only churches I have been to are Christ churches and the only books I have ever looked into are christian bibles in this context, These observations may or may not hold across all religions.

It is established that a church is a representation of the house of God. It is somehow divine. They are usually dressed in the finest construction materials, impeccably clean and dressed with ornaments and religious artifacts. People entering them are supposed to feel humbled. I have seen churches that are in the backs of old run down warehouses, out of the back of vans, in school buses and just about any vacant lot or field. Those churches usually are of few people and lack the grandiose of the 'established' ones.

Inside the churches you will find at least one cross, usually a big one behind the stage. People wear a cross, place crosses on their walls, use crosses on advertisements and they will kiss it, hug it and pray to it. Back 2,000 plus years ago in the region of the middle east people were hung on crosses. Problem is the crosses didn't look like the ones in church. They resembled an X more than a T. Some false prophet one day decided that the cross should be a T and implemented that to the visual reinforcement of the religion. But a lie is still a lie.

I have seen many depictions of Jesus Christ in many formats. I have actually walked the same Earth as Jesus Christ when I was deployed in Lebanon. I looked around in awe of how close I was to His lands. Then I noticed that the people around me looked NOTHING like the Jesus I knew. When I had liberty in England, I noticed that the people closely resembled the Jesus I knew. So, I did a search for the true face of Jesus. I found a representation of a face that would closely match what Jesus really looked like and he had more facial features in common with Saddam Hussein than the Prime Minister. It appears that I was taught to worship the wrong person.
Some religious artist somewhere decided how Jesus should look and that became the basis of belief. But a Lie is still a lie.

Seeing that they got the look of Jesus wrong I took a close look at Mary. His mom. Not only is she the same nationality as her son, she has perfect symmetry. Perfect symmetry gives the observer pleasure when gazing upon that visage. Yet, Another lie.

Now God cannot tolerate other Gods or representations of other Gods. I recall something about Him destroying the idols at the grouping at the mountain where He decreed his Laws to mankind. It makes no sense to me why He would tolerate such misrepresentations in a religion meant to glorify his only son? Perhaps He feels accuracy is not important? But knowing something is inaccurate and allowing a whole religion to practice for 2,000+ years based on a lie is False Prophesying. Yet, we are told to beware of False Prophets?

Shall I go on?...Yeah, for a little bit, just a few more things...

Here is something that really gets me, The age of the Earth.
I have been told that the world is only 6,000 years old or something like that. It has been suggested that dinosaurs existed along with mankind. Science dates the planet around 4.5 Billion years old. They do that by measuring the atomic rate of decay of known isotopes. That rate of decay can be applied to a mathematical formula to determine the age of something. It is known that dinosaurs and other animals and plants existed millions, hundreds of million years before man. Mankind and its evidence of civilization extends roughly 15,000 years into the past. 4,500,000,000 VS 15,000. That is a lot of time difference. The man animal can be traced back roughly 2 million years. that's 2,000,000 VS 4,500,000,000 still a large difference.

Another thing that gets me right here is the age of man. Noah & Moses supposedly lived into their hundreds. Not just hundreds, multiple hundreds. Living in a time where not much was known about disease, people didn't eat right, there was rampant inbreeding and life was hard, I am supposed to buy into the idea that someone could live for hundreds of years? Even if seasons were represented as years the time frames still make no sense. I am 54 years old. I am also 19,710 days old. Calculated at that rate. Months gets the result of a lower number. At 54 years I am 648 months old. At 900 months I will be about 75 years old. Now given that astronomy was not an established science back then, perhaps calculations were done considering months to be years. But God, who instructed the book to be written, is almighty and all-knowing. Why would there be an inconsistency in time? The book has a disclaimer that it may not be changed in any way. Why would God, Knowing all, write a book that is going to be proven wrong by simple observation? Was the Bible written for the simple minds of the times? Did God expect the world to end earlier than actual? Was the book meant to be rewritten to reflect the knowledge as time passed. A new chapter was written after Christ. What other new chapters have been written and where are they? In some musky basement being studied and rewritten by priests? What about the discovery of newfound dead sea scrolls? Are they added to the book? I don't speak dead sea scroll. Someone does obviously because they transcribed the scrolls into our language.
What if the scribes had a bad harvest one year and instead of transcribing exactly the intent and the word of the scrolls they shortened it so they could get done with the day's scribbling so they could have some food? What if they just read it wrong? What if it was a key factor in the whole scroll. Sometimes a false prophet has no idea they are being false. Their references may be tainted.
But a lie is still a lie.

Today on facebook I saw a caterpillar with a face on it. The face looked like a picture of Edgar Allen Poe. Is Edgar Allen Poe divine now? More likely it just appears to be a face because we are conditioned to recognize the human face. Was it a miracle? No. So why is it that when someone sees a resemblance of the 'known' virgin Mary or the 'known' Jesus Christ in an inanimate object do we decide that it is a miracle? Why is it that when someone beats cancer or survives a terrible car crash we decide that it was a miracle or a gift from God. We say it wasn't his time or He has more work for him to do. What if it is just the result of not being subjected to fatal circumstances or that the science of medicine was accurate for that individual? How is it that a thought process can affect reality. If that were the case, certainly by now someone would have mastered telekinesis. Albino-ism manifests in a population after a certain number of generations. It does this with no input or methodology. Certainly telekinesis should manifest over generations because it is practiced by many. If you think about how many albinos exist in the human gene pool and how many people have telekinesis you realize that telekinesis just isn't possible. Chaos has more to do with miracles than praying does.

Shall I go on? Frankly I am getting tired of typing. To me, religion is based on false prophets (Lies). How I see God works in reality. The most important thing is that you should believe what you wish. If your beliefs make sense to you, why should my belief give you trouble? I can allow everyone else to have any religion they choose. Why are my views on God so wrong that you must argue that I am wrong? If my views threaten yours you might want to take a look at your own to see why they need defending. There is something inside you that makes you feel threatened.
Its not like religion needs to be explained, most of it is common knowledge. It is the views of God that don't fall into religion that should be explained, a different look at things. Blind faith in anything is perilous.
 

ByGoneYrs

Gaelic Oracle
God taught man Faith and to believe in HIM as the higher being and creator. Man created Religion to worship God but also to control the rest of mankind. Remember Christ prayed to God, and didn't use Religion to teach mankind about his beliefs. It was his followers that came up with the dogma that became religion. Now I happen to follow the Christian religion, but I consider myself a man of Faith.
 
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