Kids

[HJ-Pinnelipe]

Definition of innocence from "The Free Dictionary":

1. The state, quality, or virtue of being innocent, as:
a. Freedom from sin, moral wrong, or guilt through lack of knowledge of evil.
b. Guiltlessness of a specific legal crime or offense.
c. Freedom from guile, cunning, or deceit; simplicity or artlessness.
d. Lack of worldliness or sophistication; naiveté.
e. Lack of knowledge or understanding; ignorance.
f. Freedom from harmfulness; inoffensiveness.


I'd have to say children show these qualities more than adults.

And I used infants and adults as extremes on a spectrum. Now..Look at the spectrum and you can see children would be closer to an infant than an adult. We don't suddenly bump up into "kill me" status. We slowly grow throughout our lives, and we do things. An adult would have naturally done more and seen more than a child, and so they are considered less innocent than a child because they are not "unknowing".

 

[Kuzzle]

My posts are stupid, and I'm saying the same thing over and over again. I'm getting too argumentative... Sorry.

 

[Luciro]

It's been said many times in the thread already. The fact that children are seen as more innocent. They have barely begun their lives and have done little wrong whereas most adults can't be considered as innocent.

Which has done something closer to murder, most likely? An infant or and adult?

Depends on who you're asking. A lot of folks think being born's a sin.
Plus, to Moon. Did you really 'have' to drop the kids? You played a game without a flight or fight option? That's just poor design.
Plus killing is killing. Killing an adult sprite should feel as bad as killing a child sprite if it bothers you one way or another. If you can justify killing an adult, animal, or even monster NPC by saying it's just a game, then keep that bit of reality dear if you're killing a child NPC. Enjoy the atmosphere. Discomfort, fear, rage are all fantastic emotions evoked by a simple video game.
And folks aren't calling games art? Pffsh.

 

[HJ-Diviana]

And folks aren't calling games art? Pffsh.

That's how I see HJ being. A playable work of art. The world looks.. more realistic, like the plants and trees actually grew there, instead of being placed by someone. It's not just about the assets and textures, that's for sure.

 

[Luciro]

I hope it's art.
I'm just afraid it's going to be more soup can label than dripped motion. I'd rather see more abstract with feeling than speedy trees.

 

[HJ-Pinnelipe]

I know I made all those arguments on why it's considered wrong to kill a child, but I actually believe we should allow it in our media, just in moderation because of specifically what you just said Luciro.

Art invokes feelings. The reason everyone thought the "Aeris' death scene" was so memorable from Final Fantasy 7 was because it was upsetting that someone so nice would die sacrificing herself. However, after watching her die a few times, it begins to lose it's effect. If we had kids dying all the time in games, it wouldn't evoke as much emotion and it's supposed to be an emotional thing.

Yay for some reality, nay for armies of children slaughtering!

Unless they're the girls from Order of the Rose..

 

[Luciro]

I don't mind moderation. A sheer ban just because that's what a public who doesn't even view the media? I can't see how anyone could support that.

 

[MoonDancer]

Well I personally think its wrong to kill children -or- adults. Do I play some games that have violence? yes... but I don't like laying gorey, super violent games and like others have said, its a game.

But as some have stated, everything in moderation, and seeing kids killed does evoke storng emotions. Maybe in a story or some media that emotion is needed for a real impact, but again moderation. I might or might not watch it, it would depend. It would also depend on the manner in which the child was killed, if it was in some horrible gorey or disturbing fashion then no I would not wish to see that. But then I would want to see adult mamed or killed in a super gorey fashion, not because it freaks me out too badly but because in my opinion its unessassary for that more gore, violent, etc to get the that needed impact or further the storyline.

To Luciro, I agree it was a poor design. I think I should have made it more clear in that did that situation bother me greatly? Maybe a little but not -super- much because it was just a game but that doesn't mean I enjoyed it or felt that it was really nessassary and I play computer games to have fun, but not and I felt that situation was not fun nor really needed and did not add anything to the story at all.

 

[HJ-Diviana]

Well the thing is, if you ever have a choice to kill a child in HJ, there WILL DEFINITELY be alternative options (and an extremely good reason for putting you in that position). We would never force you to kill a child.

It's possible that we want to invoke all types of crazy feelings though.

I read something one of my team wrote the other day, and it actually gave me shivers. -That's a good thing-

 

[HJ-Pinnelipe]

Well the thing is, if you ever have a choice to kill a child in HJ, there WILL DEFINITELY be alternative options (and an extremely good reason for putting you in that position). We would never force you to kill a child.

It's possible that we want to invoke all types of crazy feelings though.

I read something one of my team wrote the other day, and it actually gave me shivers. -That's a good thing-

When a writer's work brings tears to their own eyes, that is when you know it is a truly touching piece.

I'm very glad Hero's Journey will allow for choices. Ways to see a character as bad or good even if all of it is towards the same end through the eyes of others. Not avoiding controversial things. It's nice to see bravery in a game! I just hope it doesn't effect stores being willing to sell it..

Because somehow, The Sixth Sense is only alright as long as it is not in video game form.

 

[Foehammer]

Not having read through this thread, I just want to comment, that if HJ does involve killing kids (good, bad, or ugly kids), its rating is pretty much going to be M (and not T as with most MMOs, that want the T rating to have more potential subscribers). Not that I care, just saying.

 

[MoonDancer]

As long as theres choices in the game then that helps, though I agree with Foehammer that the rating would probably end up being M.

 

[Luciro]

I know I could kill kid NPCs in EQ1. Not sure if they're still there, but I could slay children hobbits all day long. Of course with the graphics they were just smaller versions of the adult models, still. It wasn't a M.

 

[Vahsyl]

Well the thing is, if you ever have a choice to kill a child in HJ, there WILL DEFINITELY be alternative options (and an extremely good reason for putting you in that position). We would never force you to kill a child.

It's possible that we want to invoke all types of crazy feelings though.

I read something one of my team wrote the other day, and it actually gave me shivers. -That's a good thing-

This actually has me kind of interested. My character would choose the option not to kill the children, probably, however difficult the outcome might be. But, if they children were... say... infected with something and there was no cure and they needed to be put down... I don't know, he might have to do it.

And thus, he'd be haunted by the act for the rest of his life. Quite a lovely moment to put into a game.

 

[HJ-Diviana]

That would be the point. It would be a moment you shouldn't forget, something to give you an emotional remembrance, and it should be delivered in a way that you can choose a different route in case it's too deep for you to go through with.

That's something we're going to hit on a lot. Quests that move you in ways you didn't know could happen. That's something our QC will make sure happens. Sure there will be basic quests like "get this or that", but the real quests, the ones we (the Story Team) spend time on, will be VERY deep.

Although killing kids may not happen at all, and if it did, very (I mean extremely like perhaps once or twice ever in the game and you'll be lucky if you go down that path to get the quest) rarely.

 

[Thaos Nightwind]

That's something we're going to hit on a lot. Quests that move you in ways you didn't know could happen. That's something our QC will make sure happens. Sure there will be basic quests like "get this or that", but the real quests, the ones we (the Story Team) spend time on, will be VERY deep.

That little snippet sure is appetizing.

 

[Kuzzle]

That would be the point. It would be a moment you shouldn't forget, something to give you an emotional remembrance, and it should be delivered in a way that you can choose a different route in case it's too deep for you to go through with.

That's something we're going to hit on a lot. Quests that move you in ways you didn't know could happen. That's something our QC will make sure happens. Sure there will be basic quests like "get this or that", but the real quests, the ones we (the Story Team) spend time on, will be VERY deep.

Although killing kids may not happen at all, and if it did, very (I mean extremely like perhaps once or twice ever in the game and you'll be lucky if you go down that path to get the quest) rarely.

But, uh... I mean, what about those of us who see it as "OMG, I just killed a kid! ...Wait, I don't care. Hm."? I mean, I just hope that the emotion won't be thrust upon the character. Like, you know, "You feel horrible", or something.

 

[Vahsyl]

But, uh... I mean, what about those of us who see it as "OMG, I just killed a kid! ...Wait, I don't care. Hm."? I mean, I just hope that the emotion won't be thrust upon the character. Like, you know, "You feel horrible", or something.

You can choose how your character reacts to anything. I've never seen a game that god mods how your characters thinks or feels about any situation.

 

[HJ-Diviana]

heheh, silly Kuzzle.

The emotions are meant to hit you the player, not your character. Although you may express them through your buddy there on the screen, the stories are made to impact you.

 

[HJ-Diviana]

Off topic:

I creep my boyfriend out because I talk about Diviana like she's someone else. To me, she kinda is.