Maps and Maps!

Rics

Cadet
Silver001 mentioned in his thread on Instances and UI that I have an issue with too...Maps and 3rd party addons that map an entire MMO. Now, some claim "it's 3rd party and optional, why do you have an issue with it?". Simple...for any MMO that is PvP these maps give an advantage over players who choose not to use the addon. I'm sure many of you have seen polls by new MMOs that ask what they have the most fun doing in these games. There is a reason that "Explore" is on those polls. People like to explore.

So, that said, my beef is not necessarily with the "maps" themselves, but with how players aqquire them. What ever happened to cartographers? Are they extinct in Fantasy based MMO? You think of all the profession in this genre and in a game with adventure and exploration, and you'd most assuredly think of a cartogrophy prefession.

I'm a huge Daggerfall fan, and one feature in that game that has stuck with me all these years was finding maps! Also, one thing that sticks out the most of Ultima Online was sitting around fishing on my boat and hauling up a treasure map.

Arrr Matey! Tis' a treasure map!
I'd like to see maps in HJ. Maps that lead to a hidden dungeon on the map or a burried treasure. Code wise I spose the maps could work like a key and in order to find/activate that location one needs the map. Also think of the economy this would provide with explorers being able to sell maps. It's like a "mystery bag". Maybe it's a map to a treasure worth nothing...maybe it's a rare item or nice dungeon. This would sure add an extra element and reward for those who truely like exploring. Even have maps you can find of areas/regions that lift the fog of war on your spinmap/world map

FOG OF WAR
I love fog of war. That's how all spinmaps should be in MMOs until the player has explored or found a map to said region. Locations can then be displayed on the map when found with the added ability for players to be able to add mapnotes. I like the idea of Exploration EXP, but there should be a bonus or reward for lifting the fog of war over an entire area/region.

CARTOGRAPHY SKILL
Maybe not as important, but fun nonetheless. A skill that would allow players to make maps of certain regions or even make maps to items/treasure they have burried. Maybe at the higher spectrum of the skill they could even scribe treasure maps players have found a certain number of times (depending on skill) and a chance of failure. Again, a nice addition to a thriving economy.

Anyhow, just some thoughts. Not sure how the code would work for something like treasure maps, but something to the effect that EQ2 uses with their collection quests...ya know, those little white question marks you see on the ground that spawn all over the place.

I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks!
 
I completely agree with the above post. Exploring involves discovering new areas for oneself and remembering how to get there again later (memorizing 1,000 squares in GSIII) (go gate, sw, s, w, go patch, nw, sw, d, go hedge, up). For those who don't know, thats the kobold village. My buddies and I knew how to travel 20 minutes (in text-based, ladies and gentlemen, thats a ton of movements) all the way from one town to another with our eyes closed. Anyway, memorization of squares is obviously not necessary in a graphical game, so that brings us to cartography. Let the minimap discover itself through fog of war! Let there be a skill, to create maps IN GAME that vary in quality based on he-who-made-it! Let treasure maps exist! All these ideas are wonderful and lend to the fulfillment of exploration.

Keep up the good work.
 
Ok, trying realy hard to think of which game it was, Wizardry V, VI, VII or something like that... you had a cartography skill, and at lvl 1 you would have a basic map (reeeeealy low rez) that would be expanded the more you explored. As your cartography level increased, the more details you would have automaticly added to your map. I loved this system, and would love to see it implemented in HJ. Also, finding maps, coupled with a scribe/cartography skill would allow you to add to your existing map :smiley:


Just my 2 cents :smiley:
 
Being a student of geography myself, I'd really like something like that in the game.
But I think it is very hard to implement in an MMORPG. Not having a decent mini-map from the start for example would scare too many people away. "No minimap? What a crappy design!"

Well, I have no clue as how travel will be in HJ, but I could imagine something like this in a game:
At a low skill you only see the outlines of certain zones on the world map. When you explore an area and create a map with your cartography skill, the more details will be seen on the world map for that area. If your maps are good enough, you can auto-travel to certain location like towns and cities. At even higher levels, a good map will automatically use shortcuts and cut down travel-time. Without maps you'd have to manually travel (using only your cloth map that hopefully comes with the game :smiley: )
Of course, you can also buy maps from other players to fill the gaps on your world map and enjoy those features.

This is probably not a feasible feature for HJ, makes things quite complicated. :smiley:

What you COULD use a cartography skill for, is READING maps you find on your journey. Random treasures hidden somewhere and you can only find it if your skill is high enough to read the map. Ultima Online employed something similar later on, I think.
 
Originally posted by Rics@May 8 2006, 04:06 AM
Arrr Matey! Tis' a treasure map!
I'd like to see maps in HJ. Maps that lead to a hidden dungeon on the map or a burried treasure. Code wise I spose the maps could work like a key and in order to find/activate that location one needs the map. Also think of the economy this would provide with explorers being able to sell maps. It's like a "mystery bag". Maybe it's a map to a treasure worth nothing...maybe it's a rare item or nice dungeon. This would sure add an extra element and reward for those who truely like exploring. Even have maps you can find of areas/regions that lift the fog of war on your spinmap/world map
I really like this idea.

Maps become keys to 'secret' instances as well as commodities.
 
Originally posted by Javewa@May 8 2006, 02:35 PM
Being a student of geography myself, I'd really like something like that in the game.
But I think it is very hard to implement in an MMORPG. Not having a decent mini-map from the start for example would scare too many people away. "No minimap? What a crappy design!"
Don't get me wrong. I love the minimap (spinmap as the FPSers call it), but the thing about a minimap is it only shows your immediate area and mobs/etc around you. Which is fine. I think as long as that is there it shouldn't scare too many people off. The large map in EQ2 (hitting the M key) actually has a fog of war, but the problem is through 3rd party addons you can get rid of it. All that said, I deffinitely agree with keeping a minimap. Fog of War is important. Not only does it provide a sense of danger, but also helps you keep track of where you've been. It's nice to be able to see your trail heh :smiley:

I'm down for a world map as well showing key locations such as lakes, cities, rivers, and world geography. Even I just don't want to be left to wander around blindly.

What about having a basic map of the newbie/starter areas come with your starting gear? By basic I mean key location, roads, villages, etc. Also make basic travel maps fairly cheap on vendors in each city. Of course these maps wouldn't have those nice ruins hidden in the forest or anything. Thus it allows for enough so players don't get lost, yet provides a reason to explore and encouragement to do so.
 
That would be a great idea about the treasure maps. have it randomly generated with a few hints to get you on your way. I'm sure Simutronics could come up with a system like that.

As for fog of war. You're 2/2 in my eyes! Great idea! I really like fog of war when it comes to the main map. However, on a mini-map I don't beliv eit should be their figuring that your in the general vicinity, you should be able to see the mountain next to you.

If a craft system is implemented. Cartography would be great! 3/3. Nice post, and great ideas.
 
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