Model Rocketry fans?

[ByGoneYrs]

Back when I was active in the Boy Scouts as a Troop Scout Master, and a BSA Merit Badge Counselor I use to teach the merit badge of Space Exploration. I taught quite a few different Merit Badges to many Scouts over the year but I enjoyed building Model rockets with the Scouts a lot and then launching them. Here are the requirements for the Merit Badge but I would have a couple of other Scout Masters teach this with me as we would bring all sorts of details into the event to really make it fun for the Scouts. We would usually go camping at a Scout Cabin site and spend the whole weekend on this badge with plenty of fun. The Scouts would do a lot of the requirements before the Weekend Lab, but we would do many things there. The goal was to have fun, learn, and get the Scouts to be interested in the topic.

Space Exploration merit badge requirements

1. Tell the purpose of space exploration and include the following:
   a. Historical reasons
   b. Immediate goals in terms of specific knowledge
   c. Benefits related to Earth resources, technology, and new products.
   d. International relations and cooperation
2. Design a collector's card, with a picture on the front and information on the back, about your favorite space pioneer. Share your card and discuss four other space pioneers with your counselor.
3. Build, launch, and recover a model rocket.[1] Make a second launch to accomplish a specific objective. (Rocket must be built to meet the safety code of the National Association of Rocketry. See the "Model Rocketry" chapter of the Space Exploration merit badge pamphlet.) Identify and explain the following rocket parts:
   a. Body tube
   b. Engine mount
   c. Fins
   d. Igniter
   e. Launch lug
   f. Nose cone
   g. Payload
   h. Recovery system
   i. Rocket engine
4. Discuss and demonstrate each of the following:
   a. The law of action-reaction.
   b. How rocket engines work
   c. How satellites stay in orbit
   d. How satellite pictures of Earth and pictures of other planets are made and transmitted.
5. Do TWO of the following:
   a. Discuss with your counselor a robotic space exploration mission and a historic crewed mission. Tell about each mission's major discoveries, its importance, and what was learned from it about the planets, moons, or regions of space explored.
   b. Using magazine photographs, news clippings, and electronic articles (such as from the Internet), make a scrapbook about a current planetary mission.
   c. Design a robotic mission to another planet or moon that will return samples of its surface to Earth. Name the planet or moon your spacecraft will visit. Show how your design will cope with the conditions of the planet's or moon's environment.
6. Describe the purpose and operation of ONE of the following:
   a. Space shuttle or any other crewed orbital vehicle, whether government owned (U.S. or foreign) or commercial
   b. International Space Station
7. Design an inhabited base located within our solar system, such as Titan, asteroids, or other locations that humans might want to explore in person. Make drawings or a model of your base. In your design, consider and plan for the following:
   a. Source of energy
   b. How it will be constructed
   c. Life-support system
   d. Purpose and function
8. Discuss with your counselor two possible careers in space exploration that interest you. Find out the qualifications, education, and preparation required and discuss the major responsibilities of those positions.

 

[Kevin]

When they're that big it's called High Power Rockets. They're still models, just very BIG models. They usually fly on ammonium percolate, the same thing as the NASA shuttles.

When they get that big do the operators start needing any special permits or licenses to launch them?

 

[Verna]

Kevin, anything over 160 newtons of thrust or that weighs over 3 pounds requires a Level 1 certification. High power rocketry or HPR as we call it has 3 levels of certification with 3 being the highest. Each level requires you to pass a written test as well as building, flying and successfully recovering a rocket intact and that is ready to fly again. Meaning reload the engine(s) and repack recovery system for another flight.

All levels of rocketry, low power, midpower and HPR are done on the premise of building a rocket that can be recovered and flown over and over. They must have a recovery system, i.e. streamer or chutes, as needed per the rocket flown. Small rockets can use a streamer or a chute depending on weight and field conditions. All HPR rockets use a chute, some use dual deploy chutes and are a size appropriate to the rocket being flown.

I think to take the test is like $10, you must be a member of NAR or Tripoli and each organization has membership fees. Some clubs charge a range fee and for club membership. Of course the cost of the rocket and engines can be expensive depending on what you are flying. To get a level 1 would run you about $150-$200 depending on the club, organization you join, the cost of building and flying the rocket.

 

[Verna]

As a side note, model and hobby rocketry is meant to be, and operates as, a safe hobby, with passive guidance (fins only) launched from a vertical rod, with means of gentle survivable recovery and using light weight materials.

Building with heavy materials, no recovery and adding an active guidance would mean you just built a potential weapon. ATF and Homeland frown on that big time.

 

[sci-fi-dude]

This is truly rocket science! Robert H Goddard and Wehner von Braun would be impressed!

 

[Tom]

Verna
Have you experimented with any modern drone technology?

I'm thinking strap a rocket to the underside for vertical thrust then use the drone features for high altitude maneuvering and remote controlled landing (sans parachute).
You fire it up as a rocket, at apogee it switches to drone and flies a pattern then you take control with a phone and land it softly at your feet.

We have rockets.
We have drones
and
We have remote guided craft.

I think the biggest problem would be to overcome the aerodynamic challenges during the rocket launch. A simple altimeter switch could turn on the drone electronics. It would need a rocket engine of enough power to overcome the structure but if the right materials are used perhaps not as powerful as one might think?

There is also a possibility to remote launch a craft, guide it to a location or altitude and then fire a second craft, a rocket with drone capacity, to a higher elevation for a drone maneuver. Military drones fire missiles with guidance carrying explosive payloads. Scale it all down to amateur specs and forego the explosive payload.
Its even possible to design it in cad software and print out the unique parts designed to make it work.

While a lot of the pleasure in model rocketry is derived from the simplicity of building a model and firing it off there is also something to be said for doing something new with a unique design to include in amateur events. A "Next Step" in the hobby?

 

[Kevin]

@Verna, thanks for the info'. I was kind of curious with those bigger rockets how it was being ensured that somebody wasn't trying to build a modern day V-2 and claim it as a "model" rocket.

 

[sci-fi-dude]

@Verna, thanks for the info'. I was kind of curious with those bigger rockets how it was being ensured that somebody wasn't trying to build a modern day V-2 and claim it as a "model" rocket.

LOL, I built the nice estes v-2 kit, I just learned camo painting at the time, it turned out pretty good.

 

[Verna]

I have flown a couple of small drones but haven't purchased one yet. The one I want is $1500+ and I just can't justify the purchase. Hopefully they will come down a bit as more people get into it.

 

[Tom]

The one I want is $1500+ and I just can't justify the purchase.

Have you looked into making your own?
I imagine you have quite a zest for creativity.
Would love to see a few designs you might think up.
Love your rocket ideas.

 

[Verna]

Kevin, NAR & TRA work very hard to make the hobby as safe as possible. There is a strict safety code that we all fly by and in almost 60 years (nearly 1 billion flights) there have only been 2 deaths; both men were in violation of the code.

One would take too long to explain, the other was a man that tried to recover a HPR bird from a high power line and was killed on contact. It was hanging down from the line about 5 feet off the ground and he tried to grab it to pull it down. He never knew what hit him. (100k volts!) If he had waited 15 minutes the power company would have done it for him free of charge. Most of the time the shroud lines burn through in just a few minutes and they'll drop to the ground.

NEVER touch anything hanging from any power line! You'd think a middle aged man would have had that much sense.

 

[Verna]

Tom, I could, and may try to cobble something up at some point, if I can ever get the time. I'm currently working 75-85 hours per week.

One of the more creative I've seen was from a rocketry friend who made an Apollo lunar lander into one. It has 4 rotors mounted where the rcs nozzles are located.

 

[sci-fi-dude]

Estes fans galore! I wonder if estes has been outsourcing its kits, I think they seem a little bit different....

 

[Verna]

Estes has been through quite an evolution over 55+ years and several purchases. About 4-5 years ago the toy company that almost ran it into the ground sold it and now it is close to it's original form from when Vern Estes started the company so long ago. He is still alive and attends the main event of NAR, NARAM each year.

John Boren is their lead designer and he frequently posts to the YORF forum. (Ye Olde Rocketry Forum) John is a great guy and we are glad to have him there.

Before I became Verna Starr/Rocket Babe I was known as the biggest Viper fanatic in the rocketry hobby and Verna's Vipers are well known. From that I have helped many people build and fly their own and got to know John through YORF and Red Squadron. We just posted his latest BSG Viper flight photo he sent to me a few days ago to this month's Fire & Smoke page on our website.

Links:

Fire & Smoke Fire & Smoke!
Red Squadron Verna's Vipers
YORF Ye Olde Rocket Forum - powered by vBulletin

 

[sci-fi-dude]

Estes has been through quite an evolution over 55+ years and several purchases. About 4-5 years ago the toy company that almost ran it into the ground sold it and now it is close to it's original form from when Vern Estes started the company so long ago. He is still alive and attends the main event of NAR, NARAM each year.

John Boren is their lead designer and he frequently posts to the YORF forum. (Ye Olde Rocketry Forum) John is a great guy and we are glad to have him there.

Before I became Verna Starr/Rocket Babe I was known as the biggest Viper fanatic in the rocketry hobby and Verna's Vipers are well known. From that I have helped many people build and fly their own and got to know John through YORF and Red Squadron. We just posted his latest BSG Viper flight photo he sent to me a few days ago to this month's Fire & Smoke page on our website.

Links:

Fire & Smoke Fire & Smoke!
Red Squadron Verna's Vipers
YORF Ye Olde Rocket Forum - powered by vBulletin

Verna you be sure to tell Vern that there are fans of his great hobby, and we love his designs and paint schemes, others seem bland, but his have pizzaz! Sci-fi dude!

 

[sci-fi-dude]

Estes has been through quite an evolution over 55+ years and several purchases. About 4-5 years ago the toy company that almost ran it into the ground sold it and now it is close to it's original form from when Vern Estes started the company so long ago. He is still alive and attends the main event of NAR, NARAM each year.

John Boren is their lead designer and he frequently posts to the YORF forum. (Ye Olde Rocketry Forum) John is a great guy and we are glad to have him there.

Before I became Verna Starr/Rocket Babe I was known as the biggest Viper fanatic in the rocketry hobby and Verna's Vipers are well known. From that I have helped many people build and fly their own and got to know John through YORF and Red Squadron. We just posted his latest BSG Viper flight photo he sent to me a few days ago to this month's Fire & Smoke page on our website.

Links:

Fire & Smoke Fire & Smoke!
Red Squadron Verna's Vipers
YORF Ye Olde Rocket Forum - powered by vBulletin

Ps. and pssst. Your vipers are the bees knees!

 

[Verna]

Thanks!

 

[Tom]

Hey Verna,
I introduced my kids to model rocketry back when they were little. It was fun family time.
Now that I am alone with plenty of time to kill, I might be interested in getting into the hobby again.
As a veteran "rocket scientist" how would you recommend starting a hobby such as this from scratch.
Is there a series of first buys that should be made.
A DOs and DON'Ts list?
Even simple things like setting up the build room, buying supplies and tools, locating the right test grounds and stuff like that.
How much money will I need to "Get Started". Will I need permits? Are there health or safety concerns?
You are my advisor. I have a little experience as an idle curiosity but no dedicated hobby.
What should I buy first? Is it quality crucial or can I save some money on it?

If I were doing the same for someone wanting to get into model car building I would suggest a snap-together model first.
Is there a snap together rocket system?

 

[sci-fi-dude]

Hey Verna,
I introduced my kids to model rocketry back when they were little. It was fun family time.
Now that I am alone with plenty of time to kill, I might be interested in getting into the hobby again.
As a veteran "rocket scientist" how would you recommend starting a hobby such as this from scratch.
Is there a series of first buys that should be made.
A DOs and DON'Ts list?
Even simple things like setting up the build room, buying supplies and tools, locating the right test grounds and stuff like that.
How much money will I need to "Get Started". Will I need permits? Are there health or safety concerns?
You are my advisor. I have a little experience as an idle curiosity but no dedicated hobby.
What should I buy first? Is it quality crucial or can I save some money on it?

If I were doing the same for someone wanting to get into model car building I would suggest a snap-together model first.
Is there a snap together rocket system?

Estes rockets have Arf kits, all ready to fly, you remove it from the box, assemble the launch pad, and supply the batteries to the hand launcher and you are in bizness, there are even some cool foam rc planes that are all ready to fly. I'm a master modeler, so I have to have a challenge to create a kit or ill get bored. I have been modeling since 1973 when Archie Bunker was king! LOL, a rocket kit is small in size, and you get a cool field box with the kit, Be sure to have a fire extinguisher with you if you are flying them, I had my first accident, and lucky for me the fire dept was in a good mood, oops!

 

[sci-fi-dude]

When they get that big do the operators start needing any special permits or licenses to launch them?

In Texas, you have to be far away from civilization actually, to launch those beautiful monsters, you have to have a licence, and training, Verna is fully correct on the subject. I have a hobby shop that had one called Sudden impact, and I was huge, I talked to Mike the owner and he told me for his it would cost up to $200 per launch! There are kits that are stepping stones to get there, North coast rocketry is one, and they go way past D and E size engines, Aero tech uses a rebuildable engine, that also sets you up....