Politics New Florida Gun Law

Jamison

Cadet
Florida's force vs. force gun law stirs debate

Associated Press
and FLORIDA TODAY WEB EXTRAS 
RELATED STORIES:
Sticking to their guns



TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - A new gun law that would allow Florida residents to defend themselves on the streets without fear of prosecution is drawing praise and fire today.

Supporters of the "meet force with force" bill signed into law Tuesday by Gov. Jeb Bush touted it as a way not only to protect the rights of those who are assaulted, but a measure meant to deter crime.

"If law-abiding citizens are able to protect themselves and have government stand behind them, you will have less violent crime," said Rep. Dennis Baxley, R-Ocala, the sponsor of the bill in the House.

Opponents of the bill warned during debate on the issue that it will lead to a "Wild West" atmosphere in Florida, where gun-toting people in public places will have shootouts because they can. No one will ever back down, opponents argued.

"You are telling people when they are in the midst of an emotional moment ... you can stand your ground until death happens," Rep. Dan Gelber, D-Miami Beach, said during House debate on the bill earlier this month.

But Baxley said the measure wouldn't result in free-for-all gun battles, in part because of laws already on the books - or rules by property owners - that prevent people from carrying guns in many instances, such as in a stadium. In another example, opponents had raised the prospect of fist fights in bars erupting into shootouts.

"You can't bring a weapon in a bar," countered Baxley on Tuesday. "If you bring a firearm in a bar, you're already committing a felony."

How the law works

The measure says people under attack don't have to retreat before responding, as long as they're in a place they legally have a right to be.

The bill says the person has "the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so, to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another."

People already have that right in their home. The bill, which takes effect Oct. 1, extends the right to public spaces, including on the street or in a place of business.

Case law and statutes dealing with the issue vary from state to state, but supporters said the measure brings Florida in line with a number of other states.

"It's common sense to allow people to defend themselves," Bush said. "When you're in a position where you're being threatened ... to have to retreat and put yourself in a very precarious position, you know, it defies common sense."

Top priority for NRA

The measure was the National Rifle Association's top priority, and the group's lobbyist, Marion Hammer, was at Bush's side as he signed it into law.

"Now, the law and their government is on the side of law-abiding people and victims, rather than on the side of criminals," Hammer said.

"(The new law) would make me feel more confident with my own gun," said Jackie Speed-Isom of Cocoa.

Speed-Isom, a 48-year-old mother of three and grandmother of four, shoots her Beretta 9 mm weekly with the shooting league at the America Police Hall of Fame and Museum in Titusville.


This seems really bothersome to me. I saw an expert talk about it, and he said under the guidelines which give you permission to shoot if you feel threatened, then if you even think that someone is pulling a gun on you (when they may be going for a cell phone) then you can legally shoot them.
 
ms.katejones said:
Just what we need, a law that makes it legal for people to shoot whenever they feel threatened. This is scary.
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I completely agree. It's kinda flown under the radar.

I'm afraid it'll get passed to other states...Florida was the first state to allow people to carry concealed, and other states quickly passed similar laws.
 
sugababyboo said:
This is a segment that the Daily Show did.  Click on "Just Shoot Me" and two minutes into the clip he talks about this law.
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I saw that one. It was funny and frightening at the same time. I REALLY hope other states don't follow suit.
 
ms.katejones said:
I saw that one. It was funny and frightening at the same time. I REALLY hope other states don't follow suit.
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I hope so too. Goodness, I'm always fumbling around in my purse, or looking for a cd while I'm driving. I'd hate to think someone would open fire, because they thought I could be pulling a gun.
 
I've lived in FL most of my life and have yet to come across any problem with any of our new laws, especially this new one that just passed.

I can even speak for the fact that I am a minority and also a woman working in law enforcement.

But I completely understand everyone's concerns and respect their opinions.
 
ALiAs_AgEnT_423 said:
I've lived in FL most of my life and have yet to come across any problem with any of our new laws, especially this new one that just passed.

I can even speak for the fact that I am a minority and also a woman working in law enforcement.

But I completely understand everyone's concerns and respect their opinions.
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I guess I just don't understand the logic behind it. Sometimes I feel 'threatened' because I get paranoid and think someone is following me...but it doesn't make sense that I should be allowed to shoot at them, if I just have a bad feeling.

I guess we'll see how it turns out. It just got passed, so I don't think anyone can really say what the long term impact will be.
 
I guess I just don't understand the logic behind it. Sometimes I feel 'threatened' because I get paranoid and think someone is following me...but it doesn't make sense that I should be allowed to shoot at them, if I just have a bad feeling.

I guess we'll see how it turns out. It just got passed, so I don't think anyone can really say what the long term impact will be.

I think there are a lot of misconceptions regarding the new law that was passed. Like you said, the long term impact will decide whether or not it will be revoked.

Vaughnlover15 said:
Someone that moved from Fl to my school told me that kids were allowed ot have guns in their school. thats kinda freaky...
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That is completely incorrect...if any student found with a firearm are subject to arrest and face penalties for their actions.
 
ms.katejones said:
Just what we need, a law that makes it legal for people to shoot whenever they feel threatened. This is scary.
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VERY scary!

i saw that daily show clip too; it's actually where I first heard about this crazy law

now when someone shoots someone else, they can just plea that they felt threatened, and because it's a law, courts would have to accept it--they're keeping killers on the streets here! insanity!

florida--do they ever get it right?
 
ud think it would be a bad idea but it really isnt that bad. there are already some us states that let u do that and their crime stats are less than others. but florida is a state known for gang activity so i dont know sound to me like a war zone.
 
Street_Soldier said:
ud think it would be a bad idea but it really isnt that bad.  there are already some us states that let u do that and their crime stats are less than others.  but florida is a state known for gang activity so i dont know sound to me like a war zone.
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I think it's a horrible idea. People can commit a crime maliciously and then use the 'feeling threatened' defense to get off. What if they kill the person who was threatening them? Then you only have one side of the story and based on this law the person wouldn't be prosecuted if they felt threatened.

And you're right. Florida does have a lot of gang activity, especially with the emergence of the MS-13 gang. I just don't see this as being a good idea at all.

Like I said, I could walk around my downtown in the evening and get a creepy vibe from some people...should I be able to open fire on them just because I feel 'threatened'? Absolutely not.

And what other states have a similar law? I was under the impression (from what I've heard from the news and the NRA [who is thrilled about it]) that Florida was the first state to pass such a law...but they are hoping it spreads, though no one has a law quite like this.
 
I think it's a horrible idea. People can commit a crime maliciously and then use the 'feeling threatened' defense to get off. What if they kill the person who was threatening them? Then you only have one side of the story and based on this law the person wouldn't be prosecuted if they felt threatened.

Well thats why you have juries. Because, its not the case that because this is the law they'll get off. Its a case of if the jury decides they had a case to feel this way then they'll get off. Thats too different circumstances.
 
I think many of you here are jumping to conclusions without really knowing all the facts.
Every state has some kind of gang activity, its not concentrated in Florida. So don't claim that Florida has a lot of gang activity.

And you cannot just shoot anyone that "threatens" you -- its all within reason.

Sure it can be a scary thought, but not every part of Florida is violent -- its found in certain cities such as Miami.
 
ALiAs_AgEnT_423 said:
I think there are a lot of misconceptions regarding the new law that was passed. Like you said, the long term impact will decide whether or not it will be revoked.
That is completely incorrect...if any student found with a firearm are subject to arrest and face penalties for their actions.
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Really? He's probably just BSing us then.
Thanks.
 
ALiAs_AgEnT_423 said:
I think many of you here are jumping to conclusions without really knowing all the facts.
Every state has some kind of gang activity, its not concentrated in Florida. So don't claim that Florida has a lot of gang activity.

And you cannot just shoot anyone that "threatens" you -- its all within reason.

Sure it can be a scary thought, but not every part of Florida is violent -- its found in certain cities such as Miami.
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We all realize that every state has some gang activity. But it is a fact that some states have more than others. Florida has the fourth highest number of gang related citities (125), and the fifth highest number of gang counties (40)...(these statistics are a little dated, they were compiled by information from 1970-1999...but I don't think they have changed significantly). So obviously while every state has some gang activity, Florida has more than most.


Fight or flight? Florida gun folk to be given option


Geoff Elliott, Washington correspondent
April 09, 2005

IN Florida it's Terri Schiavo's right to life one week and guns, guns, guns the next.

State Governor Jeb Bush this week signalled he would sign into law a bill giving the people of Florida the right to "meet force with force" in the bar, on the street or just about anywhere else without fear of prosecution.

Critics have said the legislation, which was backed by the National Rifle Association, will promote a Wild West culture in the state, where simple arguments might escalate into violent deaths, while Republican backers say it increases an individual's safety and will reduce crime.

Dubbed the Kill Bill, it has been passed by the Senate and lower house in Florida's state assembly, leaving just Governor Bush, brother of President George W. Bush, to sign it off.

His spokesman said Mr Bush would "evaluate" the bill, but already the Governor has described it as "a good, commonsense, anti-crime issue".

"Our crime rate's dropping, and it's because of measures that allow people to protect themselves and their properties, as well as putting habitual violent offenders away for longer periods of time," he said this week.

The bill won final approval in the lower house on Tuesday by a 94-20 vote. Two weeks ago it passed the Senate 39-0. It is due to come into law on October 1.

The bill wipes from law what had been commonly described as a person's "duty to retreat" from an attack and will instead allow that person to stand their ground without fear of criminal prosecution or a civil lawsuit.

It is an extension of the so-called Castle doctrine, in which current law allows the people of Florida to defend themselves with force inside their homes or vehicles, but not usually in public places without first attempting to back away.

"This is about meeting force with force," said Dennis Baxley, a Republican state representative and NRA member. "I'm sorry, but if I'm attacked, I shouldn't have a duty to retreat. That's a good way to get shot in the back.

"You are empowering our citizens of Florida to have a safer society. Some violent rape will not occur because somebody felt empowered by this bill."

Democrats largely opposed the bill. "For a house that talks about the culture of life, it's ironic that we would be devaluing life in this bill," said state Democrat Dan Gelber, of Miami Beach. "That's exactly what we're doing."

"Culture of life" was an oft-repeated refrain from Republicans -- from Mr Bush down -- as a rallying cry to try to prolong the life of Ms Schiavo, the woman who was lying in a permanent vegetative state in a Florida hospice. Her feeding tube was removed under order of the Florida courts and she died last Friday.

"All this bill will do is sell more guns and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral," said Irv Slosberg, a Democrat from Boca Raton.

Well thats why you have juries. Because, its not the case that because this is the law they'll get off. Its a case of if the jury decides they had a case to feel this way then they'll get off. Thats too different circumstances

I got this article from www.policemag.com and I bolded where it says that under this law if you fire a gun at someone because you feel threatened you will not be criminally prosecuted and will not have a civil suit allowed to be forced on you. So it's not correct to say a jury would decide...because you can't be prosecuted. Under this law if you open fire at someone for feeling threatened in public, you will not get reprimanded in any way.
 
Sex-Dwarf said:
The NRA are complete morons! 'by my cold right hand' (Charlton Heston, NRA member and second rate movie star) yeah right !
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Agreed. There is no reason for this law. They say that it will cut down on crime, but without the fear of being prosecuted or investigated for 'defending yourself' by the guidelines in this law, and I don't know if I see that happening.
 
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