Non-lethal Damage (discuss)

Rics

Cadet
Ok, so I had a thought (this is a monumental achievement for me...happens like once every 3 years). What about a system that implements non-lethal damage? Wouldn't it be really neat to be able to fight/spar without killing someone or depleting ones health? Think of it like the non-leathal rules in AD&D. I could think of many scenarios where I wouldn't want to kill somebody, yet win a fight or render them unconscious.

How it could work
The damage delt could go to fatigue rather than health. Once fatigue drops to nothing the player is unconscious. Once the player's fatigue drops to ZERO any blow (non-leathal or otherwise) cannot be delt until their fatigue returns to at least 25% or it results in a killing blow. This will prevent griefers from knocking out their opponent repeatedly every time they gain 1 fatigue back(you could prolly imagine how annoying that would be). This way, a player who has been knocked out can get away unless the attacked indeed wishes to deliver a killing blow.

An attacker should be able to toggle lethal or non-lethal damage (reguarding they have a weapon that allows non-leathal). Or, lethal/non-lethal damage should be assigned to certain weapon types (ie: bare hands would always be non-lethal unless otherwise trained differently). Also certain attacks could deal non-lethal damage, such as a hilt bash.

Scenarios for non-lethal damage
Now, lets say while I'm out adventuring around I run across a young twerp from a minor rival faction (not talking about an enemy of war here, just a rivalry). I can tell right away that I would wipe the floor with him if we fought...yet I still want to teach him a lesson and scare him off. It would be great if I could just beat him up a bit without murdering the guy. So I pummle him until he drops or runs off...just so he gets the idea. It'd be great to have that option, and if you ask me, I think it would save from a lot of griefing. Most of the time the only option is to either PK the guy, or let him run around, and most people have a sense of duty so they don't want to let him just run about in their territory. Non-lethal damage would give them a third option...one where they can enforce, yet refrain from being a murdering bastard.

Ok, now say a friend pisses me off and I feel like giving him a beatdown (or even a rival character but in the same alliance), but I don't want to deplete his heath. Say we're in an area where enemies lurk so I want to make sure we'll both be able to fight should our little brawl get interrupted by a mob or PKer. It'd be nice to have an option to show off our manliness without needing a cleric around afterwards to heal us up.

A little something extra
Non-lethal damage could even be implemented into the skill system and training. Players could train or whatnot to learn new brawling or grapple attacks. Can you just imagine frequenting your local bar being known as the "resident brawler"...having others come from all over to stake their claim in at your bar! Brings a whole new life to the tavern scene. That's a whole character progression in itself, provides for great RP, and some brings something unique to the game.

Closing thoughts
That's the jist of my thoughts anyhow. I just think it's something that would add a nice little variation to characters and some depth to the overall game. I'm all about giving the players options. Does it always have to be "death" or "nothing"? I've always had a hard time RPing my characters because most are neutral leaning towards shady, but not murderers. Give me an option where I can RP a "boarderline evil" character rather than forcing me to be the "epitome of evil". In most games now I can either be all talk, or I can murder them. It gets really old having to /emote non-lethal brawls between same-faction players.

What do you think? Sound like something worthy of having? Any ideas on it you'd like to add?
 
Good idea something similar to how morrowind had it where if you used fists you would attack their fatigue and then knock them out but the way you have thought of is different and better imo.

It would be nice to be able to spare or joke around with people and not have to worry about killing them. I used to do it a lot in L2 we would go to the arena cause we wanted to goof around but who wants to lose xp, not I.

Also just another thought that brawling could also be a skill that could be increased. Therefore if you like to get in bar brawls and wanna be the best then you could invest some time to increase your skill. Just a thought though.
 
I was gonna ssay the fatigue thing as well. I see that working well, in duels or friendly fighting. And the end result would jsut be temp stun for a few minutes.
 
Well, I kind of like the idea. Of course, they'd have to implement stunning weapons, though. Maybe a blackjack could knock someone out one hit, but only if they didn't see you, or something... of course, that'd mean they'd have to add stealth, so I don't know how it'd be implemented.

Poisons are another good option. I mean, maybe you want to knock someone out and haul them away? I don't know, just a thought.

About weapons that could inflict non-lethal damage... Well, I just don't think it'd work that well if they did absolutely no lethal damage. I mean, it's possible to beat someone to death with your fists, you know? That's why I think that weapons that are designed for non-lethal damage should do a very small amount of lethal damage. Accordingly, weapons that are designed for lethal damage, but which would also to toggled for non-lethal damage, should do slightly more lethal damage. Still a small amount, just, you know... Enough to make it fairly obvious that the club wasn't meant to simply demoralize you.

So, yeah. Just my two cents.
 
Like we talked about before in a discussion long ago, there should be certain types of grapples. Say you make a non combat rogue but you want to be of use for your group. Any MMO that added like.. The ability to jump on an enemie's back to distract them or limit their mobility would be fun to see.
Tripping folks, or even taking a dive to tackle runners is something I've always wanted to see. Like traps as implemented in WoW and CoH/V. I see it happening, but not with HJ at launch consider what all I saw months ago with them dismantelling any 'fist' / 'hands only' / 'martial arts' classes or skills. Maybe they'd add it back? Or have? Or won't ever... Who knows. I'd like too see it done.
With spells and weapons alike, just useful lil' things other than dd, dot, heal to help give the combat a deeper feel.
 
Ooh! Perhaps blunt weapons would do some non-lethal damage in addition to their regular, lethal-type damage. Bladed weapons would generally do no non-lethal damage in addition to their regular, lethal-type damage.

By the way, Luc, the idea of someone jumping on their enemies back to distract them is a bit entertaining to think about. Nice.
 
Yeah it's always been something I've wanted to see. It just seemed like a fun way to make even folks low level useful in PvP. Say there's a game where minotaur warriors are just juggernauts to face, but what if you had a group of gnome rogues clinging to the guy sapping his endurance and slowing him down so actual killers could take the guy down? LoL I'm sure we're a ways away for games to allow such feats, but I'll be more than happy to welcome them when they do.
 
Non-lethal damage sounds good to me. It's a good way to deal with characters that are doing wrong but are not truly evil.
 
Yeah, Kuz, almost anything could be used to deal leathal damage...fists included. I mean more like having the option to chose not to deal lethal damage. While most weapons can be used to kill somebody, most can also be used in a way where they do not lethaly harm somebody...either by hitting them in a different manner and by using less force. Like hilt-bashing with a sword or hitting somebody with the flat of the blade: things like that, that don't really harm.

Mainly I just like the idea of being able to play a thug without having to play a murderer. I may want to mug somebody in an ally and take their wineskin, but not be forced to kill them to accomplish that.

Also, Rics is a scrapper. He's very impulsive and gets in fights ALL the time. I'd kill to be able to RP that.
 
I never liked all that non-leathal damage and stuff especially after swg and all with the three different bars to kill someone, basically it becomes too complicated!
 
It shouldn't be any more complicated than a forward slash command. /brawl would be non-lethal damage, while /duel would be a regular duel.
 
Or like the /thump ability in DragonRealms. The ability (a chop to the neck, I think it was) would render a person 20+ levels younger than them unconscious for a few moments.. and then unable to talk for awhile thereafter. It was good for stopping pick pockets and quieting unruly younglings.
 
I like the idea.
Sparring would be fun.
Arenas and contest battles...sweet
DMs could bring in fiends to participate in the arena (caged) and spectators could watch safely.
 
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