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"Now, you think HJ WONT charge for a expantion, ever, if they use you tiered pricing?

Doubtful."



Where did this come from? Did I indicate that I did not think they would/should charge for expansions?

It really helps to have logical discussions, if you stick with the actual discussion points.

S.
 
Originally posted by Sabastian@Jun 27 2006, 07:54 PM

The HJ team has already said they will be doing content updates often as part of the monthly fee. So what have you proven by pointing out that other games already do this?

I enjoy how you listed a bunch of games that already have or have plans to release expansions that you must pay for. How does ignoring this FACT to try and make you point, make you right? DDO is not that old but I have read where they have plans for a


<mockingly>

*GASP*

</mockingly>

expansion you will have to buy! You say I am wrong about this topic. Yet another FACT? You've provided so may, which such strong support. How could I even consider disputing this one.

S.
I mentioned all that because of this paticular remark:

"You say "every other". As far as I know DAoC, EQ+, WoW and other all charge for their expansions."

My point was: They don't charge for all their expansions up front, "free" expansions (which there are more of, btw) are paid via monthly cost. So, monthly cost is not exclusively for maintenence, as you mentioned. Which was why I mentioned Guild Wars, since they do not have a monthly fee, all expantions and new material and maintence costs are covered from bought expanisions. They offer nothing else for free, since they dont have a online subscription.

So, with the typical MMO business model, you can more than cover your costs, including development if you maintain subscriptions at a base rate.

At this point I think it's best just to agree to disagree on this point. Nothing I have to say will change your mind, and vise-versa.
 
Originally posted by Morneblade@Jun 27 2006, 08:12 PM
At this point I think it's best just to agree to disagree on this point. Nothing I have to say will change your mind, and vise-versa.
That should never be the desired result of a discussion. As soon as one side agrees to the other the discussion is over. As long as the discussion continues we all continue to learn from each other.
 
Originally posted by Sylvado+Jun 27 2006, 08:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sylvado @ Jun 27 2006, 08:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Morneblade@Jun 27 2006, 08:12 PM
At this point I think it's best just to agree to disagree on this point. Nothing I have to say will change your mind, and vise-versa.
That should never be the desired result of a discussion. As soon as one side agrees to the other the discussion is over. As long as the discussion continues we all continue to learn from each other. [/b][/quote]
True, if all parties are actually interested in a exchange of ideas. I dont see that as the case here for everyone. And we have no idea what Simu is planning anyways, so it maybe a moot discussion. I've voiced my opinions, as have others on the subject. Only thing to do is see what happens.
 
"My point was: They don't charge for all their expansions up front, "free" expansions (which there are more of, btw) are paid via monthly cost. So, monthly cost is not exclusively for maintenence, as you mentioned. Which was why I mentioned Guild Wars, since they do not have a monthly fee, all expantions and new material and maintence costs are covered from bought expanisions. They offer nothing else for free, since they dont have a online subscription."

Ok, I see where you were going with this. It's a good point, I just think GW is a poor example. So back to the debate. I agree and like the idea that $15 a month goes toward constantly adding to and improving a game. I just disagree with any expectation that the fee should cover ALL content being added.

S.
 
I just want to get you all arguing some more. (Just kidding)


I do want to throw in a couple of points.

We will have downloadable "patches" which will be
A) fixes for anything wrong
and
B) lots and lots of new content

Also I remember reading a long time ago that the game will update -while you play- so there is no waiting around for the game. (If anyone can find the quote it would be great)

I'm pretty sure there will also be expansion packs with -TONS- of new content.

On top of that, don't forget this game is going to be running on -storyline-. That means that the world is going to be constantly changing, events will be happening all the time, there will be quests that can only be done by one person once to change the entire world, there will be a good quest system, so that every single character you make will have an entirely different story.

I have to say, I know everyone hates the idea of tiered pricing, but I also know there are enough people who would pay for it, and at least enough to keep the game going. I know a few people who pay for TWO premium accounts in DR. That's like 80 bucks a month! (Actually for a while, my friend had two premie accounts, and an extra basic account for me to play, that's like 95 bucks every month.. Sure he had to work his butt off to keep em, but he thought it was worth it.)

:P
 
Originally posted by Morneblade@Jun 27 2006, 11:01 PM
So, are we supposed to interpert that as that there will be tiered pricing Diviana?
No, I don't know if there will be tiered pricing.

I'm honestly thinking with all the negative attention, the tiers would either be extremely small or not at all.

But I don't make those decisions.


I have to say, I like tiered pricing. Also, a lot of you do not. I just think the argument can be explored a lot more.

Besides, all I said is there are people who would pay for it, which is true. However, we would also lose customers.


:P
 
Originally posted by Sabastian@Jun 27 2006, 01:22 PM
... So back to the debate. I agree and like the idea that $15 a month goes toward constantly adding to and improving a game. I just disagree with any expectation that the fee should cover ALL content being added.

S.
I don't recall anyone stating all content should be free. Expansions are content, and everyone has basically agreed that all games release expansions via retail or online channels, and cost money.

There is free content. Game performance fixes, crash fixes, hacking/balance fixes, etc. And many companies add things to their games at their discretion in free patches. Case in point: DAoC is now making their "classic zones" so that players can swim under water, be attacked under water by new mobs, and releasing graphics updates to mobs & buildings. SOE may consider that type of an update to be a "cheap expansion"... something you might buy online for an additional $20, or retail for $30.

It all depends on the company. Now to add my two cents, if Simu were to charge me $50 for the elite pricing pkg of Ub3rn355, then being the type of person that I am, I'd expect with dumping $600 into their product per year, that I'd get free expansions for that year, perhaps with a prepaid for a year deal, but it'd be there. $600/yr on a game however, makes my eyes bulge and mouth fall through the floor faster than a bowling ball through a cardboard box. Some people will justify it by not going to the theatres, not going to the clubs and/or bars... yada yada. Whatever. I do get out of my house, and go to wherever it is I need to get out of my house to do. I go see movies, I buy more dvd's and music cd's... I still spend alot of money on entertainment besides my computer, and for $600/year, I could spend half of that, do some serious upgrades to it, and spend the remaining $150 on my MMO of choice that gives reduced pricing for paying a full year at a time.

Just my two copper...

~ Jaraeth
 
Originally posted by Jaraeth+Jun 29 2006, 12:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jaraeth @ Jun 29 2006, 12:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Sabastian@Jun 27 2006, 01:22 PM
... So back to the debate. I agree and like the idea that $15 a month goes toward constantly adding to and improving a game. I just disagree with any expectation that the fee should cover ALL content being added.

S.
I don't recall anyone stating all content should be free. Expansions are content, and everyone has basically agreed that all games release expansions via retail or online channels, and cost money.

There is free content. Game performance fixes, crash fixes, hacking/balance fixes, etc. And many companies add things to their games at their discretion in free patches. Case in point: DAoC is now making their "classic zones" so that players can swim under water, be attacked under water by new mobs, and releasing graphics updates to mobs & buildings. SOE may consider that type of an update to be a "cheap expansion"... something you might buy online for an additional $20, or retail for $30.

It all depends on the company. Now to add my two cents, if Simu were to charge me $50 for the elite pricing pkg of Ub3rn355, then being the type of person that I am, I'd expect with dumping $600 into their product per year, that I'd get free expansions for that year, perhaps with a prepaid for a year deal, but it'd be there. $600/yr on a game however, makes my eyes bulge and mouth fall through the floor faster than a bowling ball through a cardboard box. Some people will justify it by not going to the theatres, not going to the clubs and/or bars... yada yada. Whatever. I do get out of my house, and go to wherever it is I need to get out of my house to do. I go see movies, I buy more dvd's and music cd's... I still spend alot of money on entertainment besides my computer, and for $600/year, I could spend half of that, do some serious upgrades to it, and spend the remaining $150 on my MMO of choice that gives reduced pricing for paying a full year at a time.

Just my two copper...

~ Jaraeth [/b][/quote]
The Guild Wars reference pointed in the ALL content should/could be free direction.

As for the rest. I believe DR Plat customers get ticketed events for free. That might not be true any more; however, I know in the past they did get these events as part of the Plat package. And I think that is in line with your expectations Jaraeth. $600 sounds like alot, until I look at my cable bill and figure out that yearly cost. Gah. Please, no more pointing out yearly cost, I am happy in my month to month ignorance. :P


Eve, I think alot of new ideas have come out recently. How does that equate to "beat to death?"

S.
 
:Ph34r: LOL ya'll are so cute!!! Look at Guild Wars and Lineage 2. Especialy Lineage 2, Expansions are free. So I think Simu needs to re-think it's payment and go with somthing every other MMO is going with, and it will do better, I'm not paying that much money on a game. I don't mind paying for expansions, character transfers, etcetc...but To pay THAT much money to basicaly be able to enjoy the game service to its fullest is ridiculous. Period.
 
Guild Wars is free... except, expansions are also standalone games. GW/ArenaNet has stated that their expansions will be required to be purchased. Guild Wars: Factions is an expansion, but it is also a standalone game.

The same was toted, originally, for City of Villains. An expansion for CoH players, but at the same time, another standalone game. If it wasn't a pure standalone, you'd have to pay for two accounts, and you couldn't mix them. The only difference between GW and CoH/CoV is that GW is free of monthly subscription fees.

~ Jaraeth
 
Wrong Jaraeth. Guild Wars expansions you do not have to purchase to continue playing. You will just be limited on the amount of access you have. Wow, almost like tiered pricing, wouldn't you say?
 
Not at all like tiered pricing. I'm play Guild Wars: Factions, but I had Guild Wars: Prophecies already on my computer. You gain no advantage whether you have the first game or just the expansion, outside of the new content that lets you play two new characters. Or if you want to start a new character in one of the old classes, you can change your apppearance. Also, there are new types of armor.

The only advantage for your extra cost in the expansion is new content, new quests, just what you would expect from an expansion.
 
Originally posted by Eve@Jun 29 2006, 02:54 AM
Not at all like tiered pricing. I'm play Guild Wars: Factions, but I had Guild Wars: Prophecies already on my computer. You gain no advantage whether you have the first game or just the expansion, outside of the new content that lets you play two new characters. Or if you want to start a new character in one of the old classes, you can change your apppearance. Also, there are new types of armor.

The only advantage for your extra cost in the expansion is new content, new quests, just what you would expect from an expansion.
Well thats where I was getting. In Factions, you get more content, more quests, class's etc. However, you have to pay extra for those. I believe that is what Simutronics would like to incorporate with tiered pricing, except not even that far. Just with how much storage space you get, and how many characters you can have.
 
Originally posted by Eve@Jun 29 2006, 02:54 AM
Not at all like tiered pricing. I'm play Guild Wars: Factions, but I had Guild Wars: Prophecies already on my computer. You gain no advantage whether you have the first game or just the expansion, outside of the new content that lets you play two new characters. Or if you want to start a new character in one of the old classes, you can change your apppearance. Also, there are new types of armor.

The only advantage for your extra cost in the expansion is new content, new quests, just what you would expect from an expansion.
This is just not true from what I have seen. Most of the expansions I have see offer NEW systems as well. It's not as simple as slip in new content and call it a day. EQ's first expansion was a major graphix over hall. WoW plans on putting in some type of gem smithing. I expect new SYSTEMS to play with in expansions.

S.
 
Originally posted by Kylie@Jun 29 2006, 01:22 AM
:Ph34r: LOL ya'll are so cute!!! Look at Guild Wars and Lineage 2. Especialy Lineage 2, Expansions are free. So I think Simu needs to re-think it's payment and go with somthing every other MMO is going with, and it will do better, I'm not paying that much money on a game. I don't mind paying for expansions, character transfers, etcetc...but To pay THAT much money to basicaly be able to enjoy the game service to its fullest is ridiculous. Period.
If you get more enjoyment from HJ at the basic rate, than any other game can offer, and you choose not to play because there is a higher tier that you can not afford.... well that's what I call ridiculous.

S.
 
Originally posted by Sabastian+Jun 28 2006, 09:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sabastian @ Jun 28 2006, 09:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Kylie@Jun 29 2006, 01:22 AM
:Ph34r: LOL ya'll are so cute!!! Look at Guild Wars and Lineage 2. Especialy Lineage 2, Expansions are free. So I think Simu needs to re-think it's payment and go with somthing every other MMO is going with, and it will do better, I'm not paying that much money on a game. I don't mind paying for expansions, character transfers, etcetc...but To pay THAT much money to basicaly be able to enjoy the game service to its fullest is ridiculous. Period.
If you get more enjoyment from HJ at the basic rate, than any other game can offer, and you choose not to play because there is a higher tier that you can not afford.... well that's what I call ridiculous.

S. [/b][/quote]
I would say if a persons budget restricts them from paying for a subscription that is priced beyond their means, it's not a choice, it's a restriction they cannot control without getting a pay raise, taking a second job, etc. I don't know a person who would consider that a choice, unless, they were not in control of the finances, and decided to go bankrupt in an attempt to get more gaming goodies.

Of course, in reality, I don't see $10 more a month knocking someone into bankruptcy. More or less, just less grocery money.

~ Jaraeth
 
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