Pure Bred Hero

Ok I see where your coming from now. I just have a different opinon on it. Now I do agree with you that you should never be penalized for having a hybrid class. But at the same point I think a pure bred class should have more options not only in spells but abilities that a hybrid wouldn't be able to attain due to he/she would also have additional spells/abilities of the 2nd class they chose.

All hypothetical of course since I don't think their will be pure bred classes.
 
Hmm... Now that I think about it a Ranger/Rogue class sounds most excellent. If I couldn't multiclass and it were just Ranger/Ranger then there would probably be little to no stealth ability.
 
I think Ranger Rogue would be over kill in stealth abilities.
What I don't want to see is conflicting sub class skills in the primary classes' 'must have or you're a dumb ass gimp' move set / ability list.
IE again.. I don't want anything ranger in my rogue's skills. I don't want to survive out in the wild on twigs and berries. Why? He's a rogue, he'd steal fruit from a merchant.
I don't want to shoot a bow and arrow. Arrows in my rogue's mind cost money, they may not actually, but it'd seem a waste if one broke and he couldn't retrieve it.
I don't want to track humans. I'm sure some rogues are good at it, but aren't some just good on their feet in a split second without knowing where everyone is?
Same if I go rogue/warrior. There's a lot of unrogue like skills warriors thrive on that could carry over.
Then I choose to ignore part of the forced move set upon me? While out in my group I have to ignore what? 50% of my class? 30%? 25%? Or will multiclassing really just influance the over all class? From what I've been told from the white board, hopefully beta will get some of the thinking behind it all straightened out. The lack of another melee class is really limiting too. Poor monks and hand to hand fighters.
 
Well from a MMOers point of view, that'd be what most folks would say rather than what was said above. So hopefully most everyone knows when using the word gimped with a game (notice I single quoted it in case such an inquiry arised) it would mean that you would be less effective. Not a leather or latex bound person used in explict sexiual activities.

I thought it wasn't in the intentions of the developers of HJ to balance classes? And from what the discussion above seems to only agree upon is everyone should be hybrid so that they're all underpowered in a nice and level way.
I don't see how being a pure class or a hybrid class wouldn't bring about advantages other than the illusion that if someone were say warrior/warrior it'd be more effective as a warrior/gearknight. It really wouldn't have to be. Wouldn't they each have their own play style still and their own tactical strengths and weaknesses?
Where as, from what's been stated by various devs in various locations, I think being a pure class would just give you the leveled out options of being that class.
Such as it's not a bad thing being a rogue/ranger or even a ranger/rogue. But they'd both play different from each other as would the rogue/rogue combo. How would just being a pure rogue be < or > than either?
Hybrid classing to me doesn't give off the same flare as it should that mixing would give me a choice in the matter of how I choose to play my rogue. Nor does it seem like a new way to bring balance to the classes.
 
frostydf2 said:
Duraenos, I'm not sure if I'm understanding your request correctly.

You would like to be considered possibly lets say just a 'Gearknight', but at the same time, you want a sub-class? I'm confused by what you want, maybe if you re-stated it I could answer your question a bit better.

Thanks!

Example; Fighter, Wizard, and Cleric are main classes. Let's say I choose Wizard as my main class. Later on, when I reach lvl 20, (as in EQ2) I can specialize and become a Warlock, which becomes my subclass but I am still referred to obviously as a Wizard but my new true class is Warlock. No dual class needed.
 
To shorten what I've been saying, the thing is, I don't want to be a Necromancer/Gearknight and be any less of a necromancer than a Necromancer/Necromancer. Get it? I want to be all the necromancer I can be, preferably without having to only be a necromancer.
 
So.. No matter what your primary is the second class is only gravy?
If you're a necro warrior or a necro gearknight, they should both play the same with just a couple subtle differences?
Why even have secondary classes?
 
Luciro said:
So.. No matter what your primary is the second class is only gravy?
If you're a necro warrior or a necro gearknight, they should both play the same with just a couple subtle differences?
Why even have secondary classes?

I don't think that's entirely true...
 
I'm looking to be a Warrior. When you think of just a Warrior you might think of maybe some big muscly dude with maybe a huge axe or something and possibly barbaric looking armor/maybe some fur/whatever.

Now, since I'm forced to take a subclass this changes things. So, I choose Warrior/Gearknight. Well, my guy doesn't really affiliate with machines, he's just some barbarian dude with an axe. Okay, that's out.

So, now I choose Warrior/Rogue. Wait a minute, my dude doesn't like sneaking around. He's a loudmouth rampaging barbarian dude with an axe. That's out.

So, I guess I'll make a Warrior/Ranger. Wait, my guy doesn't ever use bows and isn't really a nature freak. He's an up-close, in-your-face barbarian dude with an axe.

So maybe I'll choose Warrior/Wizard or necro or bard or cleric....or...

The same thing will happen everytime.
And some people will want their characters in the same way that I'm describing but can't because they're forced to pick a subclass. Many of you are saying "Well, that's not really a big deal, is it?" Well, it is to a serious roleplayer, which is what the main population will be consisting of the way Simu advertises serious roleplay. And part of roleplaying for many is giving your character limitations, which some of us won't be able to do if hybrid classes are forced.
 
No, that's not what I meant. What I'm trying to say is, is that I feel there shouldn't be an option to only play as one class. This is because I want to be a Necromancer/Something, likely a Gearknight. Now then, were the option to play as only one class available to the player base, then I would feel like my Necromancer/Something was less of a necromancer than just a pure Necromancer. From what I'm interpreting from HJ's proposed class system, you're a combination of your main class and your subclass, thus creating an entirely new class combo altogether. However, it's your main class, the class in which you're fully versed in, that plays a larger role in defining your character's abilities, meanwhile your subclass is a class in which you're not completely proficient in and affects your character's abilities to a lesser degree than that of your main class.

And while I can see where you're coming from, Daax, I'd advise all serious role-players like myself to simply get their heads around the fact that while your class combo, for all intents and purposes, possess the utilities of two archetypes, a true role-player should and quite easily could see past such limitations. And besides, what if each class combo is a unique class all its own and, in pertaining to lore, is taught as a single profession? In other words, what if the Necromancer profession wasn't taught by itself, but rather is only a word used in the game mechanics to show that your class combo utilizes necromancy?
 
Then why even refer to the class combos and just toss up the 12 classes that will all be hybrids? Therefore, there's no such thing as a pure warrior. You can be a warrior who knows a bit about machines.
Well you can't be a pure rogue. Forced hybrid classes is going to make for a dull game. Because the fun thing about being a hybrid before was, well I can do this and this. Now everyone can just go on about how their combo rocks... So yeah, fingers crossed for comboing rogue / rogue eventually.

This reeks of something Sony / EQ 2 to me. There's an illusion of choice and no actual say in the matter. Maybe we'll get to select how much the secondary affects our primary.
 
How does it remove choice? Here goes..

You're not actually 'deciding' how you want to play your kind of warrior. In each choice you're a warrior with a shoddy gimmick to fall back on.
Healer? You want to be a healer rogue? No, you're just some class that's been premade, but it seems you have the illusion to choose to be something different.
There's no use for having a dual class system if you're not going to base classes to base them from. You're just adding an unneeded step in choosing your final destination.

This is just like GWs and EQ now. You have the illusion of choice.
 
I think there's a lot more choice than you realize. Sure, you may be a Warrior/whatever. But there's going to be a whole bunch of variation even between two Warrior/Gearknights (Not just looks either). From what I've read, you won't be able to have every skill. Or at least you'll have to choose which skills to focus on. You don't even have to use your secondary class's skills if you don't want to. Sure, you might be less effective. But that's your choice.

It seems to me like you're misunderstanding some concepts HJ's implementing, and as such the game becoming less appealing.
 
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