Ranged Combat

Not sure how many of you read my introduction into this community, atleast the factual part of it, but I, in a nutshell, am an avid fan of Physical Ranged Combat, or PRC/the PRC class.

In an attempt to have others like me heard I would like to discuss the things people would love to see incorporated into HJ's take on the PRC class.

Anything from skills, bows, styles of fighting, or anything you can think of (relevant please!:smiley:2 ) post it here.

I would like this to turn into an official HH thread for ranged combat (please notify me if I'm not allowed to do this) Without further Ado...I open it

Hoping this dosnt fall in my face and become a huge embarassment...
_______

First matter I would like to talk about is how innovative and character controlled would players feel comfortable playing with. I personally feel that full control should be supported. This means that you actually control where you shoot, and quite possibly what happens depending on the A)type of arrow B)Where the arrow lands, and C)What poisons you have applied (if they incorporate this)

The problem I can see arising with this is the fact that if they make the PRC class fully character controlled they will have not only changed some of teh CCC, or Combatative Casting Class, to work the same way so as to not have the PRC extremely outpaced because of poor aim. They will also quite possibly need to change the way some melee works so that an Auto-Attack feature wont outpace Ranged Combat from both types (CCC and PRC). Although I think the same tactics with ranged combat could be seen with melee where depending where you slash/pierce different effects will afflict your target. Mob AI could also be designed to work around the AI and have them specifically try target a certain area of ones body. Which brings more the the Ranger type of play where you need to know what type of armor you need on different parts of your body.

Hate to introduce a coding nightmare...but I would just love to finally find a game with the PRC of my dreams, and maybe of others' dreams as well.


Thanks in Advance
~Ashvirenza Stormhood
 
Not beeing a Bow-and-Arrows Type myself (although i got a ludicrous Ranger in Titanquest), i can't say i've given this all that much Thought.

What i'd like to see, though, is something rather few Games do: No Archery in Melee !
While this should be very easy to implement (for Example by giving ranged Attacks a disruptable Timer), this would add some tactical Options in Combat, both for those with Bows and those with Swords. Besides, it just seems dumb to try and shoot someone with a Bow while he's whacking you with a big old Bludgeon.

As for allowing to aim yourself, this is something Age of Conan does. When you have a Bow equipped and zoom in all the Way, you actually get a Crosshair and can shoot wherever you please. To compensate for having to aim, they made the Arrows shot in this Mode fly a little further. I don't know of any other Advantage, like the specific Woundeffects you mentioned, though... but i agree that it would be nice. Hm, well, you'd have to carry that over to Meleecombat, then, wouldn't you ? I'm not quite sure that would end so well. I'd go another Way to make Combat skillbased.
 
I haven't played a Ranger in quite some time, or any other ranged type class. One of the things I have always thought a ranger should have in addition to bow & arrows, is daggers. I feel that most rangers are much like rogue's (WoW) when in close combat, except not quite as skilled as true rogues, lacking poisons perhaps, or other rogue abilities.

One of the things I feel rangers should have, is the ability to do some real damage with their bow & arrows. In some games, a warrior using a bow & arrow can almost do the same amount of damage to pull a mob to them from a group as a ranger would. That disturbs me, a ranger should be able to line up their sight and aim the arrow at a crucial area of the mob, slowing them (hitting them in a thigh, perhaps) or nearly killing them instantly (Head or heart shot?). A warrior should not be trained in the ways of ranged combat, though I suppose if you were dual-classed, perhaps ... but you shouldn't learn the deepest darkest ranger secrets ;)

Some day I should dig my old ranger out and see what he is made of... I think I have a story somewhere of them.
 
The ideal PRC (ranger) class in my mind would be one whose DPS with the bow was on par with that of a rogue (somewhat higher than a tank, but less than a caster), and who is also somewhat capable of handling one's self in melee combat. I think that the best way to handle the melee combat situation is to make the class very skilled at dodging and avoiding blows but unable to take damage very well. If a ranger was fighting one creature at melee combat, he should be able to dodge attacks very well and handle the creature with relative ease, but with multiple creatures, his ability to dodge should drastically decrease, and he should be in serious danger of being killed. This way the ranger would always prefer fighting at a long distance, but at the same time, a chance melee encounter with a single creature here and there wouldn't be a serious threat. (actually, I think that casters should be equally as capable at dodging attacks at melee range. It's bad enough they get wet toilet paper for armor, but why do games always make it so that they don't know how to get the heck away from an incoming blow?)

You could also do things like in Dragonrealms where the ranger is just amazing at everything ;)
 
Great suggestions so far everyone and thanks for participating!

I would have to agree that in some games ranged combat seems to be lacking Jaereth...especially my current game DDO.

Ranging is pretty much pathetic and meleeing as a ranger is the only way to go.

Disruptable timer would be a good idea although note there would have to be some sort of preparation or what not that would allow you to mitigate the amount of disruption you receive. I can foresee the problems with this style of combat in PvP with a melee class keeping a ranger completely out of the fight.

Then again maybe Rangers can have some sort of stance (I realize all this seems to be exactly like Guildwars, but hey we have to start somewhere) that will allow you to forsake all ranged capabilities and maybe even melee for a HUGE increase to dodge so that while a melee can keep you effectively out of this fight you are effectively keeping them out also.

As far as damage capabilities go I'd like to see the basic style of a ranger to be average damage but to be large scale pressure by way of Rate of Fire. You can also alter your style of combat by maybe sacrificing some Rate of Fire for a stronger pull. Maybe you could either implement this only for Rangers or bring this in to ever physical class. It could be like a little bar that lets you dictate how fast you attack. The faster you attack the less powerful it is. This could lead to griefing problems towards casters and with their wet toilet paper a completely spike focused ranger or melee could surprise them with a quick kill.

As far as problems with aiming maybe you can have a picture of a human body on your UI. This dictates where your character tries to damage someone. It may start out with the whole body orange (which could mean average chance) then you can select a specific part which will become deep red which means focus on the area. From that specific point the color may fan outwards to lighter colors so as to show that the other areas are less focused on. This basically eliminates a lot of the problems that could arise from self control, but still lets you have a lesser form of being able to maybe slice someone in the hamstring to slow them down, bludgeon soemone in teh head to stun them, shoot someone in the heart, etc...

Once again thanks for participating. Oh and it looks like the HJ community is in fact better than others and is giving a child a chance at honest and productive conversation.

Thanks in advance
~Ashvirenza Stormhood
 
Great suggestions so far everyone and thanks for participating!


Then again maybe Rangers can have some sort of stance (I realize all this seems to be exactly like Guildwars, but hey we have to start somewhere) that will allow you to forsake all ranged capabilities and maybe even melee for a HUGE increase to dodge so that while a melee can keep you effectively out of this fight you are effectively keeping them out also.

I like the idea of stances in combat. In Dragonrealms, there are three basic stances, (evasion, parry, and shield) and you are allowed to allocate a total of 180% among the three stances. So you could for example set evasion at 100 and parry at 80, meaning that you'd be defending with 100% of your evasion skill, 80% of your parry skill, and 0% of your shield skill (you can't go beyond 100%). You could easily extend this idea offensively as well, and you could even make class-specific stances. For example, you could have other distributions such as accuracy, damage, and attack speed, just to throw a few possibilities out there (the distribution would probably have to be higher than 180 percentage points). Then you could make it so that in addition to some general stances that all the classes would get, you could also have some special stances that only certain classes get, which may allow you to even go beyond 100% in a certain skill. For example, you could have a PRC class stance which brings your accuracy and dodge up to 110%, while lowering your shield and parry significantly. You could have a warrior stance that increases your damage and attack speed 110% but lowers one of your defensive slots accordingly as well. Or for a gear knight you could have a highly defensive stance that lowers your accuracy and attack speed. In addition to that you could perhaps have some classes be allowed more percentage points to distribute across the board such as the warrior, rogue, and gearknight. The basic reason being that some classes like casters won't have to worry about the offensive point distributions as much, while the melee classes will have to worry about both (even the PRC class could care less about parry and shield if they're just focusing on ranged damage). Anyways, I think I remember hearing about being able to have different styles of fighting in HJ's combat system, but in terms of solid info, it's one area I feel like the game developers are keeping quiet about.
 
I really like that take on stances. Along with the the allocations you should definitely be able to get templates that allow you to "save" allocations so that you dont have to constantly change dials/bars. A ranger might have a template when they need to focus on ranged combat and then they might have a template that they switch to when they start to get attacked.

Thanks in advance
~Ashvirenza Stormhood
 
Whatever HJ does with rangers I'm really hoping that it A) dosn't turn into DDO where Ranged Combat is completely broken. B) Guildwards where Rangers are not particularly wanted in missions except for the very last one where they are most likely the most wanted. Great...but how do we get to the last mission.

They should also really make their dungeons feel a lot more open and have a lot of cool things you can do with rangers. In Guildwars I dont remember one place where my ranger would split team and try find higher ground. I would love it if there was a dungeon in a night time environment where maybe you and another ranger would confer with the rest of your party and go split team to find higher ground for oncoming foes. You might eventually find a plateau right over a Pack encampment.

There could be endless possibilies from there.

Thanks in advance
~Ashvirenza Stormhood
 
They should also really make their dungeons feel a lot more open and have a lot of cool things you can do with all classes. In my old MMO I dont remember one place where my class would split team and try find the optimum position for him.

This brings up a great point so I "fixed" the quote to apply to everyone and anyone. It's far from just a ranger issue. Actual strategy (and tactics), as opposed to completely artificial and nonsensical strategy, is something I would love endlessly in an MMO.

Anyone ranged, be they spellcasters, archers, or any other variation, should want to use topography to their advantage. Though flat and straightforward dungeon designs (or even in the case of some games like WoW the rules of the game that automatically "evade" mobs that can't attack back) usually kill this ability. Also, a lack of clipping tends to make tanking a purely statistical function instead of forcing the enemy back and away from one's rather squishy peers.

That's one of the reasons I've been so drawn to PvP in games, because you can use terrain to your advantage and you can't tank a player character with math (though damn if it isn't still possible to do it even without clipping). You actually have to play your class a bit more. Though still not nearly enough...
 
Sorry for my absence. A tornado rolled through and knocked out our internet for a few days.

I completely agree about your points on tactics and strategy. It would be great to introduce environmental and topographical features that allow you to look at missions in more ways than one.
 
What do you guys think about poisons? Should it be a skill or an item? Many different kinds or a few? Customizable choices as in you have mny ingredients and how you mix it is the poison you get or fixed choices? Should a rogue only get poisons or should a ranger get them too? Should they introduce poisons at all?

Thanks in advance
~Ashvirenza Stormhood
 
I like the idea of poisons being purchased, by anyone , then combined with an item, such as an arrow. Different potenticies (spelling??) of the poison should be purchased.
The poisons could also be used by someone who make an antidote out of it as well by combining it with something.
 
I like the idea of poisons being purchased, by anyone , then combined with an item, such as an arrow. Different potenticies (spelling??) of the poison should be purchased.
The poisons could also be used by someone who make an antidote out of it as well by combining it with something.

I'd actually prefer it if everyone could use them, but certain classes get a bonus to applying them (kind of like a class skill), which would probably be rogue or rangers. Not sure if the bonus would be more for one or the other, although I guess certain types of poisons for each might be a good idea.
 
I like the idea of poisons being purchased, by anyone , then combined with an item, such as an arrow. Different potenticies (spelling??) of the poison should be purchased.
The poisons could also be used by someone who make an antidote out of it as well by combining it with something.

I would say that it would be guaranteed that poison will have different potencies depending on your level. I dont really no about poisons being purchased by anyone. Not everyone can handle the delicate nature.
 
Ashvirenza said:
I never played Tabula Rasa....could you tell me a little more about this crosshair?

I only played it shortly in open Beta, but it's basically like this: Instead of turning the Camera and moving the Cursor seperately, it behaves like a Shooter, with the Crosshair in the Centre. If you click on something with the Crosshair, it snaps to the Target, like autoaim. Unlike autoaim it stays there until you release the Button, though - no matter where you turn the Camera. The greatest Difference is in the Feeling, since it's neither more difficult to Click on the Target, nor can you get an Advantage by aiming very precisely.

I didn't like it a lot, but it may have changed since then...
 
If there's an alchemist type class (maybe I should look to see if there is....) they could be the one's who'd create poisons with greater potencies or affects. Simple poisons could be purchased from certain npc merchants by anyone, regardless of a class restriction.
 
I actually loved Tabula Rasa's fighting! Muchly because it was different, not overly complicated but still tactical, and the enemy AI was really nice, making you feel like you really were fighting for those bases. If the game had had stuff like working taverns and bunks? I would have thought it almost perfect.
 
I like the ideas behind the Shadow Warrior in Warhammer Online, they get 3 stances, one that enables all their ranged attacks, one that enables all melee abilities, and one that's sort of balanced between the 2 that lets you shoot and run at the same time.
 
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