Vahsyl
Cadet
I've been discussing this issue and debating it a lot lately with several people I know, and wanted to express my opinion about this topic here so that the VERY skilled and good community on these boards could lend their own opinions...
Basically, I've come to the conclusion lately that the 'battle' that's arisen between the RP community and the PvP Hardcore / PvE Raiding Hardcore community isn't actually something any role-player can blame the enemy on.
In truth, I believe that most of the problem stemmed from role-player attitudes themselves.
City of Heroes was my first MMORPG that I actually got into. It was also my first role-play experience. I had gotten to know the community through the boards before the game ever came out. What's sad is that back then we didn't need our OWN boards to RP and communicate on. It seems games often lately end up having a "RPer forum" address that is entirely seperate from the main, official boards. In CoH, we just RPed on the official boards in the sections provided. Also, there was no role-play server. The community as a whole picked a server as the "Unofficial Role-play server." Now, you'd think we would have been mocked and made fun of on a server like that as it wasn't even desnigated as a role-play one. Not so... We actually just encouraged non-RPers to RP just based on the fact we didn't lord it over them they had to RP. We did our own thing, and many people would go "Hey... what are they doing? It looks like fun... I want in on this..."
Sadly, ever since WoW came out and the "masses" of people have discovered MMOs, I've seen this change drastically. Suddenly millions of people became interested in online communities and games. Many people even started playing and didn't even KNOW what role-play was. Often, they didn't even get a chance to find out, because if they went on a "RP server" (not even knowing what it meant half the time) and didn't RP from the start, they were met with insults and people treating them like they were stupid. Granted, they often acted kind of silly when they met you, but instead of a wise person handling a child with care, I found most RPers just talked over their heads and sometimes refused to acknowledge them if they didn't speak in character in the 'correct channels.' (Like local, shout, and sometimes people even General... more on that below)
Because the community was seperated into "designated worlds" people seperated themselves as well. My first RP experience in WoW had me talking in Goldshire to someone, and a non-RPer walked up and asked something like "how do i level?" Well, the RPer I was with chose to mock them by 'not understanding' what they were saying, 'cause they obviously weren't asking IC. The person left... and some might argue he didn't even get what was going on, but I wonder... what if he just decided "Ok, that person was a dumbass freak who was too high and mighty for me... I'll get him later... arsehole..."
I've been guilty of this as well. I've never insisted someone role-play on a role-play server, but I have acted like the person was insane, when they used poor grammar and were obviously talking OOC in local, for example.
During my course of that game, I noticed many people even insisting General Chat be IC, and tons of people in that channel arguing with them. Guess who won?
I sometimes think RPers have done themselves much more harm than good. I don't think non-RPers sought out to kill the community and stop people from RPing... I think they just fought back against someone insisting they "play the game this way, because their way was wrong." The problem was that when they began to fight back, it soon became a much LARGER enemy than the one who had started the 'war.'
It's like many of the debates on forums I've taken part in. If you listen, and are STRONG about your own point, but when someone brings up another you don't post a reply that says the same thing stubbornly all over again, you come across as more intelligent. You can tell when someone's READ your previous post and cares to either adjust his or her view based on a point you made, or explain why he or she is still not convinced. However, calling anyone stupid never works, right? When misunderstandings sprout up, as heated debate often does 'cause this, if anyone might appear insulted it's important to apologize. I don't see how anyone could argue it's better to not be polite. Anyone who insists someone is wrong or an idiot EVEN IF that person is, logically, incorrect... never convinces the person they might be wrong as well.
Basically, I think we could do a lot better as a whole if we change some of our ways. If you see someone OOC shouting, just answer them IC. If you can't answer the question in an IC manner, send them a nice tell OOC explaining how to help them. Don't insist publically "(( Shout should be IC, THIS IS A ROLE-PLAY SERVER! ))." I mean, has anyone ever seen that work? When you force something on someone, they instantly fight it no matter what.
I know the arguement that "anyone who goes onto a role-play server should just leave if they don't want to role-play" is logical... but since when have humans acted logically?
What I did in CoH was remain in character even in a PuG. People often loved it, and even tried to strike up RP chats with me as we killed things because they could tell RP was fun. After all, I was doing it even if I was the only one. They reasoned it must be fun, else why would I DO it? Did I once tell them (( I'm sorry, this is a RP server and I'm remaining in character because if I don't want to RP I should go to another server. )). No. Granted we didn't have the 'tag' but it really doesn't matter. Sometimes people just choose a server based on location and don't even notice the tag.
Try and remember that you can never ever ever FORCE someone to do something they don't want to do online. If you try, they'll fight you EVEN IF it's only because they don't want to forced. If you've ever heard the saying "you attract more flies with honey" you'll understand what I mean.
My overall wish is to get people to explain what RP is, in tells, to people that seem interested. If they don't seem to care, just treat them as someone who speaks funny maybe, but don't ignore them or mock them if they are being polite and not attacking you. I guarantee though that if the debates in general channels and shout start up in ANY game, we'll only once again create a community of non-RPers and RPers who hate each other... regardless of the world.
Basically, I've come to the conclusion lately that the 'battle' that's arisen between the RP community and the PvP Hardcore / PvE Raiding Hardcore community isn't actually something any role-player can blame the enemy on.
In truth, I believe that most of the problem stemmed from role-player attitudes themselves.
City of Heroes was my first MMORPG that I actually got into. It was also my first role-play experience. I had gotten to know the community through the boards before the game ever came out. What's sad is that back then we didn't need our OWN boards to RP and communicate on. It seems games often lately end up having a "RPer forum" address that is entirely seperate from the main, official boards. In CoH, we just RPed on the official boards in the sections provided. Also, there was no role-play server. The community as a whole picked a server as the "Unofficial Role-play server." Now, you'd think we would have been mocked and made fun of on a server like that as it wasn't even desnigated as a role-play one. Not so... We actually just encouraged non-RPers to RP just based on the fact we didn't lord it over them they had to RP. We did our own thing, and many people would go "Hey... what are they doing? It looks like fun... I want in on this..."
Sadly, ever since WoW came out and the "masses" of people have discovered MMOs, I've seen this change drastically. Suddenly millions of people became interested in online communities and games. Many people even started playing and didn't even KNOW what role-play was. Often, they didn't even get a chance to find out, because if they went on a "RP server" (not even knowing what it meant half the time) and didn't RP from the start, they were met with insults and people treating them like they were stupid. Granted, they often acted kind of silly when they met you, but instead of a wise person handling a child with care, I found most RPers just talked over their heads and sometimes refused to acknowledge them if they didn't speak in character in the 'correct channels.' (Like local, shout, and sometimes people even General... more on that below)
Because the community was seperated into "designated worlds" people seperated themselves as well. My first RP experience in WoW had me talking in Goldshire to someone, and a non-RPer walked up and asked something like "how do i level?" Well, the RPer I was with chose to mock them by 'not understanding' what they were saying, 'cause they obviously weren't asking IC. The person left... and some might argue he didn't even get what was going on, but I wonder... what if he just decided "Ok, that person was a dumbass freak who was too high and mighty for me... I'll get him later... arsehole..."
I've been guilty of this as well. I've never insisted someone role-play on a role-play server, but I have acted like the person was insane, when they used poor grammar and were obviously talking OOC in local, for example.
During my course of that game, I noticed many people even insisting General Chat be IC, and tons of people in that channel arguing with them. Guess who won?
I sometimes think RPers have done themselves much more harm than good. I don't think non-RPers sought out to kill the community and stop people from RPing... I think they just fought back against someone insisting they "play the game this way, because their way was wrong." The problem was that when they began to fight back, it soon became a much LARGER enemy than the one who had started the 'war.'
It's like many of the debates on forums I've taken part in. If you listen, and are STRONG about your own point, but when someone brings up another you don't post a reply that says the same thing stubbornly all over again, you come across as more intelligent. You can tell when someone's READ your previous post and cares to either adjust his or her view based on a point you made, or explain why he or she is still not convinced. However, calling anyone stupid never works, right? When misunderstandings sprout up, as heated debate often does 'cause this, if anyone might appear insulted it's important to apologize. I don't see how anyone could argue it's better to not be polite. Anyone who insists someone is wrong or an idiot EVEN IF that person is, logically, incorrect... never convinces the person they might be wrong as well.
Basically, I think we could do a lot better as a whole if we change some of our ways. If you see someone OOC shouting, just answer them IC. If you can't answer the question in an IC manner, send them a nice tell OOC explaining how to help them. Don't insist publically "(( Shout should be IC, THIS IS A ROLE-PLAY SERVER! ))." I mean, has anyone ever seen that work? When you force something on someone, they instantly fight it no matter what.
I know the arguement that "anyone who goes onto a role-play server should just leave if they don't want to role-play" is logical... but since when have humans acted logically?
What I did in CoH was remain in character even in a PuG. People often loved it, and even tried to strike up RP chats with me as we killed things because they could tell RP was fun. After all, I was doing it even if I was the only one. They reasoned it must be fun, else why would I DO it? Did I once tell them (( I'm sorry, this is a RP server and I'm remaining in character because if I don't want to RP I should go to another server. )). No. Granted we didn't have the 'tag' but it really doesn't matter. Sometimes people just choose a server based on location and don't even notice the tag.
Try and remember that you can never ever ever FORCE someone to do something they don't want to do online. If you try, they'll fight you EVEN IF it's only because they don't want to forced. If you've ever heard the saying "you attract more flies with honey" you'll understand what I mean.
My overall wish is to get people to explain what RP is, in tells, to people that seem interested. If they don't seem to care, just treat them as someone who speaks funny maybe, but don't ignore them or mock them if they are being polite and not attacking you. I guarantee though that if the debates in general channels and shout start up in ANY game, we'll only once again create a community of non-RPers and RPers who hate each other... regardless of the world.