Season 4 S/V relationship - or lack there of

[SydBristow13]

Ratings wise: it started with a bang - 16 million viewers, double the season average for Series 3, but since then...it's dropped to a little over 10 million viewers for the latest episode. Head-count ratings have dropped by about a million per episode - whether they'll carry on dropping is anyone's guess, so far they haven't levelled out. We could conceivably bottom out at the 8 million average of S3, or even fewer. Why not? Or it could start holding at just over 10 million. Time will tell. So far it's a definite downward curve.

There's a lot of trick-shot analysis that makes it look better than that (i.e. quoting percentages of key demographics) but when you get right down to it - thems the figures. (TWOP has an entire thread on this stuff).

from http://sd-1.net/index.php?showtopic=38303&...0&#entry2464585

Sheesh! Is it necessary to turn this thread into another excuse to have at Vaughn and the people who like Syd and Vaughn together? Does it really matter to anyone else why others watch "Alias"? Does it impede others enjoyment of the show if I watch to see Marshall's gadget explanations, or Sloane doing his thing, or if I like to see the Syd and Vaughn moments? They don't have to dominate the show but I like it when they share a touch, a secret smile, sustained eye contact.

As for the huge assumption Syd and Vaughn are turning fans away, that is impossible to know. Surely the repetitive nature of the stand alones, weapon of the week, interchangeable bad guys and lack of story arc have something to do with the fall off in the ratings? And of course we might want to think about that juggernaut called "American Idol"? That may have something to do with the decline. Besides, even with the recent slip, "Alias" is still up in the ratings over previous years.

You may still want all the S/V stuff but a lot of fans (I for one) disagree with you on that. I've had more then enough about S/V. there is just too much of Yawn and S/v-ness this season. Seriously it seems more like the Vaughn show or the S/V show then Alias. In my opinium the S/V ness is more something for a soap show then for Alias. Look back at the first Season, it was about Syd relationship with her father, that'S what had got me interested in the showi n the first place. the second season was about syd relationship with her mother. the third season sucked because of the focus the show had on Syd/Vaughn/Lauren relationship. It would have turned out better if they kept Lauren just a normal wife. And now this season they are focussing yet again on S/V. haven't they learned anything from the previous season. Most people blame Lauren for the suckness of the season but Lauren was a good char. Melissa played her well. The reason S3 sucked is because of how Yawn kept betraying Lauren and Syd.

As you know only a small percentage of people who watch Alias come to these boards and the past week I have seen three people quit watching Alias because of how the focus is on Yawn this season. Now this episode was good I liked the lack of S/v-ness and just find it odd that there are still people out there who didn't like it because of the lack of S/V-ness. S/V has been a focus in every episode since S3 the main focus. I had really had enough of that. This eppie I could actually really enjoy again without all the boring drama of the S/V ship. Let's take it slow next thing you know they're doing it again. this ep finally didn't had that.

 

[lomarambor]

as much as I respect SV shippers opinion of 'not enough SVness', I would also like to emphasize on the magnitude of SVness compared to the relationship that are still developing, aka Wadia. For 3 seasons SV has been the focui of the show and all of us know that both of them are in love with each other. Now, with lauren gone, we are certain that both of them are gonna be together. So, why beg for more when you already got it? In this epi, you would notice there was more wadia compared to sv, thats the writers trying to develop their relationship, just as they have done wioth sv in S1. Give them some room to brethe. Its time sv take a break and let wadia set in.

 

[Avery]

Ratings wise: it started with a bang - 16 million viewers, double the season average for Series 3, but since then...it's dropped to a little over 10 million viewers for the latest episode. Head-count ratings have dropped by about a million per episode - whether they'll carry on dropping is anyone's guess, so far they haven't levelled out. We could conceivably bottom out at the 8 million average of S3, or even fewer. Why not? Or it could start holding at just over 10 million. Time will tell. So far it's a definite downward curve.

There's a lot of trick-shot analysis that makes it look better than that (i.e. quoting percentages of key demographics) but when you get right down to it - thems the figures. (TWOP has an entire thread on this stuff).

I'm not questioning your (or directdial's) statistical information about the ratings decline, I've already agreed the ratings have fallen. I'm questioning your interpretation of those facts ...

The show is losing a million viewers a week, most of those (I dare not say all but suspect so) have stopped watching the show because of the boring S/V ness in it.

lomarambor, I understand your point. I've quite enjoyed Weiss and Nadia so far but I still like seeing evidence of Syd and Vaughn mending their relationship even if it is merely a smile or a touch. It doesn't have to dominate the show to be effective. I'd like to think there is room for both relationships.

 

[tooboo]

Yes, GoodVsEvil, according to Robert Bianco the TV Critic for USA TODAY, things look promising for a possible fifth season.
Here is a question from his chat.
Topic: I like Sydney and Vaughn together and prefer it when they have a "moment"  however brief because that relationship reveals a different side to Sydney.   Let's hope ABC is finished rearranging the episodes and the developments in the ship will be more natural.

[post="1227109"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

from http://sd-1.net/index.php?showtopic=38303&...0&#entry2464585

[post="1227173"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

I would tend to take the opinion of a well respected TV critic over someone who is simply trying to take their dislike for a character and turn it into the reason for the ratings drop since the premiere.

The main reason that the ratings have dropped off is simple. American Idol. The professionals who make a living out of analyzing the ratings all agree that this is the reason, and even though the ratings have dropped off since the premiere, they are still approximately 3 million over the season high from last year. More importantly the viewership in the Wednesday 9:00pm time slot is up 34% from the same time last year. All in all a very good showing.

For those of you who don't like Vaughn or S/V, unfortunately you will be in for a very long season.

Spoiler

The descriptions for episodes 10-14 are all very Vaughn-centric, and considering that Sydney is the main character and JJ has already said that one of his main goals for this season is to make S/V the couple to root for again, both Vaughn and S/V should be very prevalent for the rest of the season.

For the rest of us who enjoy S/V along with all the other characters, it should turn out to be a very enjoyable, exciting and intriguing season.

 

[verdantheart]

The main reason that the ratings have dropped off is simple. American Idol. The professionals who make a living out of analyzing the ratings all agree that this is the reason, and even though the ratings have dropped off since the premiere, they are still approximately 3 million over the season high from last year. More importantly the viewership in the Wednesday 9:00pm time slot is up 34% from the same time last year. All in all a very good showing.

[post="1227252"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

How did a debate over complaints about there not being enough emphasis on the S/V relationship turn into a ratings debate? In any case, I agree that it has no place here, citing the above. The current 800 lb gorilla of the ratings world is American Idol, like it or not, and even against that competition Alias seems to be bringing in better numbers than last season. At this point, I'd think the suits would be happy with the results.

As to the S/V debate, aren't we being a little greedy, considering that those of us who appreciate the father-daughter relationship have gotten virtually nothing (and I believe I have hardly complained at all and am only bringing it up here as an example--others have complained, though)? There have been many, many S/V missions and scenes; I guess they just aren't all exactly of the quality or type that shippers are craving. Personally, I'd be happy that I was seeing a lot of my favorite characters. Consider that fans of Dixon, for example, are thankful for a single dramatic speech. Maybe there wasn't a lot of Vaughn in this episode--that was a change from previous ones. Do we wish he was back with Lauren?

I guess I have a really different perspective on this because I always gravitate towards supporting or recurring characters. I'm always happy just to see my favorite character featured in some way. If you are expecting a quota of S/V action in every episode or a certain "timetable of love," no wonder you're disappointed.

 

[tooboo]

How did a debate over complaints about there not being enough emphasis on the S/V relationship turn into a ratings debate? In any case, I agree that it has no place here, citing the above. The current 800 lb gorilla of the ratings world is American Idol, like it or not, and even against that competition Alias seems to be bringing in better numbers than last season. At this point, I'd think the suits would be happy with the results.

As to the S/V debate, aren't we being a little greedy, considering that those of us who appreciate the father-daughter relationship have gotten virtually nothing (and I believe I have hardly complained at all and am only bringing it up here as an example--others have complained, though)? There have been many, many S/V missions and scenes; I guess they just aren't all exactly of the quality or type that shippers are craving. Personally, I'd be happy that I was seeing a lot of my favorite characters. Consider that fans of Dixon, for example, are thankful for a single dramatic speech. Maybe there wasn't a lot of Vaughn in this episode--that was a change from previous ones. Do we wish he was back with Lauren?

I guess I have a really different perspective on this because I always gravitate towards supporting or recurring characters. I'm always happy just to see my favorite character featured in some way. If you are expecting a quota of S/V action in every episode or a certain "timetable of love," no wonder you're disappointed. 

[post="1227408"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

I'm in no way dissapointed in the amount of time S/V has been focused on. As much as I enjoy both Vaughn and S/V, I feel that at the most their relationship should be secondary to the plot, and not the primary focal point.

I think what had some fans dismayed concerning this episode was considering the fact that in the previous episode, Sydney had not only stated all of her pent up fears to Vaughn, but also aimed a gun at him and pulled the trigger. The repercussions from those actions would have been nice to see, and because they weren't addressed, some fans may have felt let down.

 

[verdantheart]

I think what had some fans dismayed concerning this episode was considering the fact that in the previous episode, Sydney had not only stated all of her pent up fears to Vaughn, but also aimed a gun at him and pulled the trigger.  The repercussions from those actions would have been nice to see, and because they weren't addressed, some fans may have felt let down.

[post="1227489"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

The fact that it isn't being addressed may in itself be significant. I would say that Vaughn doesn't want to address it, brushing it off with "You weren't yourself."

 

[tooboo]

The fact that it isn't being addressed may in itself be significant. I would say that Vaughn doesn't want to address it, brushing it off with "You weren't yourself."

[post="1227504"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

:lol: Neither one of them are ever going to be crowned "The King or Queen Of Good Communicators!"

 

[Jamison]

I guess just to clarify my point...yeah I am rather disappointed...but don't get me wrong I'll take anything I can get, and I love that there has been focus on other characters. The main issue I had was how inconsistent their relationship is now compared to WTLV, after that shippers were expecting some monumental jump in their relationship status...and we have yet to get it. I think that's where most of us are getting our disappointment from.

 

[verdantheart]

The main issue I had was how inconsistent their relationship is now compared to WTLV, after that shippers were expecting some monumental jump in their relationship status...and we have yet to get it.  I think that's where most of us are getting our disappointment from.

[post="1227648"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

I certainly will agree that there's been a little inconsistency and I think part of that comes from the shuffling of episodes. However, I don't think that the inconsistency has been that glaring--it's just that S/V shippers focus in on every detail, so every tiny inconsisteny tends to become magnified. There is a quality of waffling on Sydney's part as well, which also contributes to the sense of inconsistency--Sydney herself is being inconsistent because she has mixed emotions--which translates into mixed signals and actions. Of course it's not entirely satisfying--for Sydney and Vaughn, too.

 

[MissingSark]

I certainly will agree that there's been a little inconsistency and I think part of that comes from the shuffling of episodes. However, I don't think that the inconsistency has been that glaring--it's just that S/V shippers focus in on every detail, so every tiny inconsisteny tends to become magnified. There is a quality of waffling on Sydney's part as well, which also contributes to the sense of inconsistency--Sydney herself is being inconsistent because she has mixed emotions--which translates into mixed signals and actions. Of course it's not entirely satisfying--for Sydney and Vaughn, too. 

[post="1227901"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Agreed. And frankly, it would have been foolish to just jump back into the relationship and pick up where they left off in S2. Vaughn was married and killed his wife. Sydney lost two years and has feelings of betrayal. They aren't the same people they were. They have stuff to deal with and that should be addressed before they get back into it. I have no doubt that they'll get over it. We've already seen that in WTLV.

 

[spydancer]

Agreed.  And frankly, it would have been foolish to just jump back into the relationship and pick up where they left off in S2.  Vaughn was married and killed his wife.  Sydney lost two years and has feelings of betrayal.  They aren't the same people they were.  They have stuff to deal with and that should be addressed before they get back into it.  I have no doubt that they'll get over it.  We've already seen that in WTLV.

[post="1227941"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Agreed x 2. It seems like some people have this unrealistic "first blush of love" expectation - tied to what they remember to be Syd and Vaughn at the end of season two. I think it may be safe to say that most of us liked the couple they were back then, but the truth remains that they just aren't the same people that they were. Besides the fact that it wouldn't be realistic for them to just pick up where they left off, then they have hardly got anywhere to go for the rest of the season. It may have been a bad choice to take WTLV out of context - tsk tsk shuffling the episodes- But why can't we just give them some time to develop into a real couple again?

 

[jess]

The fact that it isn't being addressed may in itself be significant. I would say that Vaughn doesn't want to address it, brushing it off with "You weren't yourself."

[post="1227504"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Ooo, good one. Vaughn brushing off something like that seems "in character" for him, imo.

But why can't we just give them some time to develop into a real couple again?

[post="1228081"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

You're right that time needs to be given. Its only episode 7 and I didn't expect S/V to be all puppies and rainbows so early into the season. I'm more than happy to see them struggle with establishing a relationship with new versions of themselves.

 

[spydancer]

The fact that it isn't being addressed may in itself be significant. I would say that Vaughn doesn't want to address it, brushing it off with "You weren't yourself."

[post="1227504"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Interesting! At the beginning of the episode he's asking her directly what she's afraid of, later on he doesn't want to know anymore. Clearly this is not a case of Vaughn not realizing what is really going on. Maybe he is disheartened that she is not talking about how she feels with him, but then why would he expect her to give him more than he is giving her? In Ice we saw him unable to talk about any of his Lauren "issues" with Syd. Although, it may be significant that when he did start talking, it was not with Syd, but rather when he knew she was listening. So this tells us that he wants to talk to her but he doesn't know how to yet. As for Sydney, she's been dodging the "fear" bullet since Vaughn came to her door at the beginning of the season. Even though we saw Syd with her emotional guard rails up during season 3, I still think Vaughn is not used to having her bottle up her feelings so much around him. He doesn't know how to deal with it yet. My guess would be that they are building up to something, but it is pretty hard to figure it out with all these episodes all shuffled around!

 

[SydBristow13]

I'm not questioning your (or directdial's) statistical information about the ratings decline, I've already agreed the ratings have fallen.  I'm questioning your interpretation of those facts ...

[post="1227215"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

goodvsevil wanted to know where I got it from so I posted where I got it from.

as for my interpretation on them well I know we'll never agree on that about that so let's just agree to disagree.

 

[GoodVsEvil]

Yep I wanted to know and again it was from another Anti SV- Anti Vaughn fan with no direct link to any actual sources just another fan interpretation of ratings and why they are falling.
I'll stick with reputable news sources.
On topic, I agree we need more actual plot line and action not just relationship aspect but, I also agree things need to be worked through not just for a hunkey dorey lovey dovey relationship to occur but, so that these 2 can begin to get back an actual level of trust.
I'm eagerly waiting for the other character stories to begin to flesh out and to actually give Vaughn plotlines and not just ex handler/love interest Vaughn. We need to more about his background.
And interaction with others besides just Vaughn with Syd, Syd with Vaughn. Lets see some Vack!
Let the father daughter dynamic get back to the forefront.
And just what exactly are Sloane and Jack up to??

 

[verdantheart]

Interesting!  At the beginning of the episode he's asking her directly what she's afraid of, later on he doesn't want to know anymore.  Clearly this is not a case of Vaughn not realizing what is really going on.  Maybe he is disheartened that she is not talking about how she feels with him, but then why would he expect her to give him more than he is giving her?  In Ice we saw him unable to talk about any of his Lauren "issues" with Syd.  Although, it may be significant that when he did start talking, it was not with Syd, but rather when he knew she was listening.  So this tells us that he wants to talk to her but he doesn't know how to yet.  As for Sydney, she's been dodging the "fear" bullet since Vaughn came to her door at the beginning of the season.  Even though we saw Syd with her emotional guard rails up during season 3, I still think Vaughn is not used to having her bottle up her feelings so much around him.  He doesn't know how to deal with it yet.  My guess would be that they are building up to something, but it is pretty hard to figure it out with all these episodes all shuffled around! 

[post="1228528"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Vaughn is accustomed to bottling up his own feelings and not dealing with them (including the enormous ones, like his grief over Sydney's death), so it's not surprising that he didn't confide his guilt regarding Lauren to Sydney--much easier for it to come out in front of a stranger, huh? But Vaughn isn't accustomed to Sydney bottling up her emotions with him. It might be understandable for her to do so, because she feels burned--after all, she felt betrayed and when he finally told her he was leaving his wife, he went back to her, compounding that emotion. Still, Vaughn doesn't want to wait, feeling that the real obstacle, Lauren, is gone . . . but the real obstacle is Sydney's conflicted feelings about Vaughn, and they're not gone. That's baggage that they have to carry with them and work through. Eventually, I think, they're going to have to stop tiptoeing around each other and confront some of these issues.

Well, this is venturing a bit off topic, but I think that we've gotten off of frustrating and onto more interesting territory, which is a plus . . . hopefully today's episode will be more rewarding for S/V fans.

 

[spydancer]

Eventually, I think,  they're going to have to stop tiptoeing around each other and confront some of these issues.

[post="1228716"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Almost exactly what I was going to say, except in my version they were "dancing" around the issues. Anyway, I think is pretty clear that the Albatross is in the room with them. They can only avoid it for so long... *let's hope*

 

[freelancer7]

Maybe Sark's appearance will spice things up some..... Or better yet, if they can get Bradley Cooper back for a couple of eppies, that could really stir up some interaction!

 

[verdantheart]

Almost exactly what I was going to say, except in my version they were "dancing" around the issues.  Anyway, I think is pretty clear that the Albatross is in the room with them.  They can only avoid it for so long... *let's hope*

[post="1229026"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Hee, hee . . . in my version, it's an elephant, but same idea . . .