Politics Same-sex Marriages (¡DOS!)

AliasHombre said:
It has been legalized in all of scandanavia, and has been a failure.
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i was under the impression that it is only legal in the Netherlands and Spain. and how has it been a failure?
 
I got this article from yahoo and I'm not surprised the UCC supports gay marriage. Have you seen their ads? They make it perfectly clear that accept people from ALL walks of life. And, I am definitely not surprised that it is "traditionally strong in New England". YAY for the UCC for having the courage to go against the grain and doing what I personally believe is right.

United Church of Christ Backs Gay Marriage

By DOUG GROSS, Associated Press WriterTue Jul 5, 7:58 AM ET

The president of the United Church of Christ said his denomination "acted courageously to declare freedom" when it passed a resolution endorsing same-sex marriage on Independence Day.

The resolution calls on member churches of the liberal denomination's 1.3 million members to consider wedding policies "that do not discriminate against couples based on gender." It also asks churches to consider supporting legislation granting equal marriage rights to gay and lesbian couples and to work against laws banning gay marriage.

The endorsement by the church's rule-making body Monday makes it the largest Christian denomination to endorse same-sex marriage. The vote is not binding on individual churches, but could cause some congregations to leave the fold.

"On this July Fourth the General Synod of the United Church of Christ has acted courageously to declare freedom, affirming marriage equality, affirming the civil rights of same gender couples to have their relationships recognized as marriages by the state, and encouraging our local churches to celebrate and bless those marriages," said the Rev. John H. Thomas, president of the United Church of Christ.

Roughly 80 percent of the representatives on the church's 884-member General Synod voted to approve the resolution Monday, a day after a committee recommended it.

A small group of conservative congregations had proposed an alternative resolution defining marriage as between a man and a woman, and suggested that supporting gay marriage could lead to the church's collapse.

The Rev. Brett Becker, who represents a group of more conservative churches, said it is possible his congregation at St. Paul United Church of Christ in Cibolo, Texas, will leave over the resolution.

"I would like to see us stay in the denomination and network for positive change," Becker said. "However, many of my members have expressed very clearly that this decision would cause great consternation and that, if this happened, they would want to see us leave."

Formed in 1957 and traditionally strong in New England, the United Church of Christ has a tradition of support for gays and lesbians. It is distinct from the more conservative Churches of Christ, which has some 2 million members in the U.S.

UCC churches are autonomous, meaning the General Synod does not create policy for its more than 5,700 congregations.

In the early 1970s, the denomination became the first major Christian church to ordain an openly gay minister. The church declared itself to be "open and affirming" of gays and lesbians 20 years ago.

"This is a significant moment," said the Rev. Rebecca Voelkel, of Cleveland, coordinator of a church coalition addressing gay and lesbian issues. She said the decision emphasizes that lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people are "spiritual people who love and are loved by God."

But Becker does not think Monday's vote was representative of the wishes of most church members.

"If we had put it to a vote of the people in the pews, it would have failed overwhelmingly," he said. "This is truly Independence Day for the UCC — we have declared ourselves independent from the teachings of Jesus and the clear teachings of Scripture."

Homosexuality also has been a divisive issue for a number of other churches.

The Anglican Communion has been divided since its U.S. branch, the Episcopal Church, consecrated an openly gay bishop in 2003. The United Methodist Church is also debating a panel's decision to reinstate a gay minister who had been defrocked.

This summer, a special task force of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) is set to finish its report about how to overcome severe disagreements on gay relationships and other issues.
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Indeed it is! So, I've watched Morgan's Spurlock's show on FX called 30 Days. In this weeks episode a conservative Christian army reservist named Ryan moved to San Francisco and lived with a gay man named Ed for 30 Days. I have to say it was one of the BEST episodes ever.

Ryan, he was VERY sheltered when it came to gays. Before moving to San Francisco he even asked his friends "Can I play football with them? Can I take them to a museum?" He was DEAD serious!!! My jaw dropped! The way that he was talking about gays made it seem as he viewed them as being mutants lol They weren't human like him and straight people. THen again, he was sheltered.

He lived in Castro in San Francisco which is a prodominantly gay neighborhood. He worked, lifted weights, ate, and played sports with gay men for entire month. AND he regularly visited a gay church and it's pastor Penny Nixon. On three or four occasions he had personal meetings with Penny where they discussed the bible and homosexuality.

Quite honestly, he is very rooted in his beliefs so I was doubtful. However, on more than one occasion he realized what it was like to be a minority, to be outnumbered and discriminated against, he did not like it and even said that he would not wish it upon anyone.

The show's creator and host Morgan spurlock showed the opposition towards gays by christians in America. For all the non-Americans, I HIGHLY suggest you somehow see this episode to understand how it's like here in the states. "30 Days" FX creator is Morgan Spurlock and this is the fourth episode please get your hands on it!!!

It was until the the last couple of days that he finally changed his opinions towards gays and their rights. He went to support group of people who have gay friends or family members, that was a turning point for him. A father of a lesbian told Ryan his story about his daughter coming out to him. When she asked her father how he knew that he was straight that's when he realized that she is just being who she is. And, that she shouldn't have less rights than her two brothers or anyone else. You can see at that very moment a switch being hit in Ryan's brain and he basically repeated tha father's question about why daughter has less rights but he said it with conviction and realization. I almost cried LOL.

When Ryan went back home, he kept the books that were given to him by Penny and the ones that he bought. THen he showed his family the pictures he took and his dad was obviously uncomfortable and asked Ryan if he would go back. Ryan said that he would... YAY!!!! :D

My favorite line was said by Ryan. "I was making uninformed decisions about something that I knew NOTHING about.
 
xdancer said:
i was under the impression that it is only legal in the Netherlands and Spain.  and how has it been a failure?
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That is true.

I don't know where that incorrect information came from.
 
It's crazy how some people think.

I have a close friend who is Democratic and very liberal in her views. She thinks that gays should be allowed to marry and adopt as they please. Yet she still believes that they choose to be that way.

My old manager at the pool is a lesbian and they got into it one day. Even though I agree with my friend about gay marriage, I couldn't believe how ignorant she was to the biology aspect.

Susan (my manager) asked her "Do you honestly think that I would choose to live this way and be descriminated against my entire life?" (Susan had also been the victim of several vandalisms dealing with her sexual orientation).

My friend said, "Of course. People choose it for the attention, you could be straight if you wanted to be."

There are so many studies showing that it's biological, I don't understand how some people can truly believe that a person would choose to be gay. It's ridiculous.

I didn't choose to be straight, I just am.

So, I asked my friend that if people choose to be gay, then when did she choose to be straight?

She said, "Well, um, I guess I didn't. But that's beside the point. We are all born straight, some just choose to be gay later on."

Even though she's for equal rights for homosexuals I still hate to see the misinformation and sheer intolerance of it all.

A lot of people, in this country especially, could use a wake-up call. Maybe they should all go on Morgan's show and spend 30's in a gay person's shoes.
 
They should! lol I'm sorry Jamison but your friend is seriously misinformed.

Perhaps you should ask her if she thinks Asians, Hispanics, and African Americans chose their race???

It's like poker, wouldn't everyone if they could CHOSE the best cards so they could have the best hand in order to win? They can't, they either take their chances by trading in a few of their cards or DEAL with the ones they have??? Either way we do not chose our "hands" or "cards" so to speak, they are dealt to us.
 
sugababyboo said:
They should! lol  I'm sorry Jamison but your friend is seriously misinformed. 

Perhaps you should ask her if she thinks Asians, Hispanics, and African Americans chose their race??? 

It's like poker, wouldn't everyone if they could CHOSE the best cards so they could have the best hand in order to win?  They can't, they either take their chances by trading in their a few of their cards or DEAL with the ones they have???  Either way we do not chose our "hands" so to speak, they are dealt to us.
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lol...she is soooo misinformed.

I usually don't get into politics at work or with close friends, because more often then not I'm in the minority (she's like seriously one of 2 friends I have in my hometown who are democrats -_- ). But this case caused me to set her straight.

I wasn't mean, but I did explain to her that there are many studies that that it is all biology. Like the fruit fly study I posted a few pages back.

Then she even added that she heard on some news program about mothers who take a lot of aspirin while they are pregnant and how the ones who took too much ended up having sons who were very effeminate.

I'm still not sure I've gotten through to her. She's still likes to believe it's a choice, so for now I'm just going to agree to disagree I suppose.
 
My god, homosexuality is not a cold lol it can't be caught! ;) How would she feel if she were brought to a lesbian bar and everyone was saying that she's gross for choosing to be straight and is only doing it for attention??? What if they berated her throughout the night simply for being straight?? Then she would know how it's like to be discriminated against for being EXACTLY who you are.

I'm sorry for the passion but I cannot understand those who believe that it is a choice.
 
sugababyboo said:
My god, homosexuality is not a cold lol it can't be caught! ;) How would she feel if she were brought to a lesbian bar and everyone was saying that she's gross for choosing to be straight and is only doing it for attention??? What if they berated her throughout the night simply for being straight??  Then she would know how it's like to be discriminated against for being EXACTLY who you are.

I'm sorry for the passion but I cannot understand those who believe that it is a choice.
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I completely agree, hun!

It drives me absolutely nuts.
 
Your article about the fruit flies was very informative. The female fly had to have ti GENES altered in order for it be gay.

And another thing about the episode last night, Morgan said that Jesus himself never spoke out against gays but that the anti-gay passages in the bible is what sparks controversy.

Morgan interviewed Fred Phelps (a former civil rights lawyer and Christian) as he was holding a protest against gay marriage. He brought his children and grandchildren. It broke my heart to see 5 to 10 year olds holding or passing out signs saying "God HATES F*GS, F*GS DIE GOD LAUGHS" It's hard to see hate and intolerance being taught and passed down to such young children. :angry:
 
sugababyboo said:
My god, homosexuality is not a cold lol it can't be caught! ;)
I'm sorry for the passion but I cannot understand those who believe that it is a choice.
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Why do children in gay households have a higher chance to be a homsexual later in life?
 
They have a higher chance of EXPERIMENTING sexually, not being gay. Gay people like say Ellen, Rosie, Elton John, the fabulous five from Queer came from STRAIGHT parents. If you think being around gays for a long period of time can influence someone's sexuality then there would be whole lot more gay people, actually I would be gay since I've been exposed to them since I was 6. And, since heterosexuals are MAJORITY on this planet then why isn't everyone straight like them? Where did you hear that statistic from??? About a year ago, I watched an episode of Dateline or 20/20 that did a study that showed children raised by gay parents have a higher chance of experimenting sexually and that doesn't always result in them being gay.


Never once had a I met a gay person who has not known they were gay since a young age and none of them said that they chose to be gay they just knew. My friend Mikey knew he was gay when he was 4. Richie, (my other gay friend) knew he was gay when he first watched the Power Rangers (I kid you not!) My mom's hair stylist knew he was gay since he was 4 too. Ellen DeGeneres's mother (Betty) suspected Ellen was gay since she was very young. The list that I have mentioned is only the tip of the ice berg because as I have said, I know a lot of gay people and NONE of them never once said they choose to be homosexual, they just are. Again, they were all raised by STRAIGHT parents. If parents sexuality had that much influence on their children than there would be less gay people on this earth.
 
AliasHombre said:
Why do children in gay households have a higher chance to be a homsexual later in life?
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Talk about a major myth :rolleyes: This has been spread by various Christian networks and right wingers who are anti-gays, but there is absolutely no truth to it.

Myth: Children raised by gay parents are more likely to grow up gay themselves.
Fact: All the available evidence demonstrates that the sexual orientation of parents has no impact on the sexual orientation of their children and that children of gay parents are no more likely than any other children to grow up to be gay. This is a fact supported by every psychological and sociological study to have examined this issue. Some children may grow up to be gay, as will some children of heterosexual children. These children will have the added advantage of being raised by parents who are supportive and accepting in a world that can sometimes be hostile. If you know a gay person or gay couple, are their parents gay?
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http://www.creatingfamilies.com/surrogacy/smgaycouple.HTML

And there are many other resources on the matter...it's just too late for me to post them all.
 
So, Fred Phelps (a fundamentalist and former civil rights lawyer) is head of the Westboro Baptist Church (They are strongly against gays and gay marriage) actually had a press release saying that londoners deserved what happened to them this past week! I'm posting this here because the release is anti-Uk/London b/c of their support of gays. I must warn you it is quite offensive. Here is the release
 
sugababyboo said:
So, Fred Phelps (a fundamentalist and former civil rights lawyer) is head of the Westboro Baptist Church (They are strongly against gays and gay marriage) actually had a press release saying that londoners deserved what happened to them this past week!  I'm posting this here because the release is anti-Uk/London b/c of their support of gays.  I must warn you it is quite offensive.  Here is the release
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That just makes me sick to my stomach, that kind of vitriol could come only from America (n)
 
I don't think thats particulary fair, maybe it would be more accurate to say people with this kind of opinion are more high profile in America than else where in the western world.
 

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