Politics Same-sex Marriages (¡DOS!)

[sarks_princess]

i think you will find that a lot of "religions" preach against homosexuality. regaredless of your religious beliefs, the government in a lot of countries use the basis of the bible for their laws. in your comments you say that because you dont believe in the bible you are supportive of homosexuality. other things such as murder, theft, divorce are all forbidden by the bible. if you dont believe in the bible are you going to partake in and support those activities as well? please dont say that these two concepts are different, because they are, it is the same principle, you cant do one thing one time and a totally different thing another time. its called consistency, and sadly the world is lacking of it.

 

[cathjs47]

i think you will find that a lot of "religions" preach against homosexuality. regaredless of your religious beliefs, the government in a lot of countries use the basis of the bible for their laws. in your comments you say that because you dont believe in the bible you are supportive of homosexuality. other things such as murder, theft, divorce are all forbidden by the bible. if you dont believe in the bible are you going to partake in and support those activities as well? please dont say that these two concepts are different, because they are, it is the same principle, you cant do one thing one time and a totally different thing another time. its called consistency, and sadly the world is lacking of it.

Just because a government does something doesn't make it right. Look at the Howard government (I see that you're from Brisbane - so am I!) - they're trying to pass 'shoot to kill' laws regarding terrorism - that's murder, is it not? Doesn't the bible forbid that? Besides, the Australian Constitution provides for strict separation of State and Church (it may not always be upheld, but that's a different issue), and for that matter it also provides for freedom of religion. (Note: if you can't tell by my Avatar, I think John Howard is a git.)

I didn't at any point say that the bible doesn't provide for a good way of life in many ways, but that doesn't mean that it's right in every way. It's possible to agree with bits of something and not agree with other bits of it. For example, I really like some bits of Alias, but at the same time don't like some other bits about it - does that make me an inconsistent hypocrit? As if me supporting homosexuality means that I also support murder and theft. Come on, open your eyes.

I also didn't say that because don't follow the bible it means I support homosexuality. It's not a cause and effect situation like that. My support of homosexuality is independent of my lack of faith in the bible.

You should read some John Locke (not the character on 'Lost', rather the political philosopher).

 

[Jamison]

Just because a government does something doesn't make it right. Look at the Howard government (I see that you're from Brisbane, which I'll assume is the one in Australia and not the US) - they're trying to pass 'shoot to kill' laws regarding terrorism - that's murder, is it not? Doesn't the bible forbid that? Besides, the Australian Constitution provides for strict separation of State and Church (it may not always be upheld, but that's a different issue), and for that matter it also provides for freedom of religion. (Note: if you can't tell by my Avatar, I think John Howard is a git.)

I didn't at any point say that the bible doesn't provide for a good way of life in many ways, but that doesn't mean that it's right in every way. It's possible to agree with bits of something and not agree with other bits of it. For example, I really like some bits of Alias, but at the same time don't like some other bits about it - does that make me an inconsistent hypocrit? As if me supporting homosexuality means that I also support murder and theft. Come on, open your eyes.

I also didn't say that because don't follow the bible it means I support homosexuality. It's not a cause and effect situation like that. My support of homosexuality is independent of my lack of faith in the bible.

You should read some John Locke (not the character on 'Lost', rather the political philosopher).

Exactly

And sarks_princess, while you aren't in the states, I'd still like to hear your thoughts on interracial marriage, since the same argument was used against that in th 60s. Society didn't crumble when that was legalized, so why would it crumble if gay marriage were legalized?

Other than using the Bible as an argument I don't see why allowing gays to marry would be such a bad thing. I can find plenty of reasons why murder is wrong without using the Bible. (Theft and divorce are different stories though...sometimes people are so needy that they have to steal bare necessitites to survive...and divorce shouldn't be frowned upon in the way that it is...yes I think that a lot of divorces could be prevented if people didn't rush into marriage, but it can't always be avoided).

Nobody has ever showed me how gay marriage will ruin society or ruin the sanctity of marriage. Like I said earlier, if it's going to have that much of an impact on your heterosexual relationship then obviously that relationship wasn't that strong to begin with.

 

[AliasALIAS]

Thanks for the support Jamison and suga! ^_^

its interesting how people fail to acknowledge that the bible clearly states that marriage is for one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others (and for life, buts thats a different story)

But not everyone lives according to the Bible. This is the United States of America, land of the free, not a fundamentally-run nation where everyone is forced to believe one book that was written two thousand years ago, even longer ago for the Old Testament. But even as a Catholic myself, the Church does not believe in every single line of the Bible as law. Yet some parts of the Bible are emphasized more than others, like one line that says homosexuality is an abomination. The Bible says many things that Christians don't practice anymore. And Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. Yes, I know He couldn't have possibly spelled out The One and Only Giant Rulebook to Follow That Covers Every Single Sin We Should Not Commit. But Jesus did say that there are only two rules we really need to follow: love God and love your neighbor. Taking rights away from same-sex couples and condemning them to hell is not very accepting. Two people of the same sex love each other? What a crime. There are other things to be worrying about in this world, things that are actually harmful to society.


And just by reading my friend's blog and not even having to talk in person, I've realized how big the fight for rights in the queer community is. It goes all the way down to the use of language. 'Gay' is often used to describe something stupid, something we don't like. 'Straight' is used to describe heterosexuals as if homosexual implies 'broken' or 'abnormal.' I always found it offensive when people used the word gay as a way of saying stupid. Imagine how it must be for someone who actually is gay.


And like I said, my gay friend is one of the nicest people I know. It's not like he's running around looking for people to 'sin' with front and back. He's only had two relationships in his life. He rarely uses the word 'love,' even towards close friends, because when he says it, he wants to truly mean it (take that, Britney Spears). He has fallen for heterosexual people, but he never tried to 'turn them gay' like my mom thinks he will. He has a heart just like any normal person, it just so happens his heart falls for the same sex. And although he denied it for some time, he realized it when he was young. He's had girlfriends, but they didn't work out because he didn't really feel anything for them. And I'm sure if homosexuality was a choice, he would make himself feel something for them. But it's not a choice. Now if homosexual acts are really sinful, I don't understand why God would allow people to be born that way. I'm more inclined to believe that the writer of that passage in the Bible was probably writing his own opinion.

 

[sugababyboo]

Murder, lying (under oath) and stealing (at least here in the states) is illegal but divorce isn't and neither is adultery which is also condemned by the bible. And in the case of adultery, the only way that is punishable is through a prenuptial agreement.

Since I was not raised on the bible, I wasn't taught which acts were "sinful" and those that are not. I was taught what was right and wrong like stealing, murdering etc.. by my parents. They never once attached a specific God to it either, they made it clear that I should treat people that I want to be treated, with respect and kindness. I learned tolerance and acceptance through my sisters, friends and my mom's gay hair dresser. And to me, all of this makes sense, because being decent and courteous to one another is not a horrible thing.

 

[sarks_princess]

I didn't at any point say that the bible doesn't provide for a good way of life in many ways, but that doesn't mean that it's right in every way. It's possible to agree with bits of something and not agree with other bits of it. For example, I really like some bits of Alias, but at the same time don't like some other bits about it - does that make me an inconsistent hypocrit?

you cant just take the bits of the bible you like and disregard the bits you dont, it doesnt work like that

But it's not a choice. Now if homosexual acts are really sinful, I don't understand why God would allow people to be born that way. I'm more inclined to believe that the writer of that passage in the Bible was probably writing his own opinion.

well im inclined to believe that it is a choice. the bible is the inspired word of God, therefore what was written there was not the writers own personal interpretation but what God thinks. The Bible also talks about how mankind and the world is going to become more sinful and disobedient etc, which is shown in the continual degradation of certain aspects.

someone, cant remember who now, asked about my opinion on interracial marriage. I dont have a problem with that, because in my opinion its a totally different thing.

I accept that people have different views to me, and in this forum i seem to be outnumbered. Therefore i dont wish to debate this further, especially when some of the people here even admit to not knowing the Bible. You cant have an informed debate without knowing all the facts. Simple as that. This is not a cop out or whatever as some people may say. I have expressed my beliefs. Thats it.

 

[cathjs47]

you cant just take the bits of the bible you like and disregard the bits you dont, it doesnt work like that

I don't actually take anything from the bible - the way I live my life and my ethics and morals come from my own conciousness. I didn't need to read the bible in order to decide that I thought that murder, for example, wasn't cool - I managed to come up with that one on my own. So I'm not saying that I follow the bits of the bible that I do like and disregarding the bits I don't - really, I'm disregarding the whole thing and coming up with my own ideas. But I do agree with bits of the bible and disagree with other bits. You can't criticise that - otherwise you would be implying that it's impossible / not right to do that with everything - to use my earlier example, I should no longer watch Alias, because there are bits I don't like. Or I should no longer read these forums (and this would apply to you) because I agree with the things that some people are saying, but not with some other things.

You need to give a justification for your arguments - tell me why you don't think that it's okay for me to disagree with some bits of the bible and not with others? To use the 'that's just the way it is' line is a pretty poor form of argument.

Furthermore, I think that you would find it hard to say that you don't agree with some parts of other religious texts and not others. For example, the Jewish Torah. It's very similar to the Old Testament of the bible, so for you to say that I can't agree with some bits of the bible but not others means that you can't agree with some bits of the torah but disagree with others, which would in turn mean that you can't agree with the bible.

Therefore i dont wish to debate this further, especially when some of the people here even admit to not knowing the Bible.

We're not trying to debate the validity or whatever of the bible, but rather just trying to make you understand that it's not what everyone in the world lives their life by, therefore some people couldn't give a toss about what it says (and I don't mean that in an offensive way, seriously), because they appeal to different religions / gods, or even none at all.

 

[AliasALIAS]

you cant just take the bits of the bible you like and disregard the bits you dont, it doesnt work like that
well im inclined to believe that it is a choice. the bible is the inspired word of God, therefore what was written there was not the writers own personal interpretation but what God thinks.

I'm going off on a tangent here, but I also believe that the Bible was inspired by God. That, however, does not make every single word in the Bible true. If it were, why are there two creation stories that are different from each other? Why are there historical and technical inaccuracies?

And again, Jesus said the only two laws we really need to follow is to love God and to love your neighbor. He also said that God is the judge, not us. If homosexual couples will not harm me, why should I judge them and take away their rights?

Even if homosexuality is wrong, there are other crimes a lot worse than two people of the same sex expressing love for each other. I think we shouldn't be spending so much effort prohibiting same sex marriage when there are other issues that affect more people.

And I do not understand why anyone would choose to be homosexual. I could choose to have a happy 'normal' life and a happy 'normal' family. Or I could choose to be discriminated against, not have biological children of my own, have people condemn me to hell, not have equal rights, have hate crimes committed against me, not be accepted by my own mother... If homosexuality were a choice, why would anyone choose the latter lifestyle that is discriminated against, even dangerous?

If one day, clear concrete scientific evidence proves that homosexuality is not a choice, that it's genetic, would you still think it is a sin?

I'm sorry you feel the need to not discuss any further, but if you don't, then your opinion won't be heard ;-)

 

[sarks_princess]

You need to give a justification for your arguments - tell me why you don't think that it's okay for me to disagree with some bits of the bible and not with others? To use the 'that's just the way it is' line is a pretty poor form of argument.

actually it is a good argument because thats is how it is, whether people including yourself like it or not. the bible does say these things and it is the basis for millions of people. i have a feeling that many of these discussions are going round in circles. until someone gives in, its going to go nowhere. i dont expect, nor should you, that people compromise their beliefs or whatever. as far as im concerned homosexuality is a sin.

I'm going off on a tangent here, but I also believe that the Bible was inspired by God. That, however, does not make every single word in the Bible true. If it were, why are there two creation stories that are different from each other? Why are there historical and technical inaccuracies?

And again, Jesus said the only two laws we really need to follow is to love God and to love your neighbor. He also said that God is the judge, not us. If homosexual couples will not harm me, why should I judge them and take away their rights?

If one day, clear concrete scientific evidence proves that homosexuality is not a choice, that it's genetic, would you still think it is a sin?

I'm sorry you feel the need to not discuss any further, but if you don't, then your opinion won't be heard ;-)

actually the bible is consistent and not inaccurate and many things have proven this so. God is the judge, as you said but it is also true that the bible is the word of God and thus what it is in it is what He has decreed.

the last question is hypothetical and grasping at straws, scientific evidence will no sooner prove that homosexuality is not a choice than it will discovering why the grass is really green. Homosexuality is not and never will be genetic.

its not like im going to loose sleep if my opinion isnt heard, i'll get over it.

 

[cathjs47]

actually it is a good argument because thats is how it is, whether people including yourself like it or not.

Does the bible say that it's not okay for me to agree with some bits of it and not others? Genuine question. That's what my comment was referring to - not your justification of your lack of support for homosexuality.

 

[AliasALIAS]

the last question is hypothetical and grasping at straws, scientific evidence will no sooner prove that homosexuality is not a choice than it will discovering why the grass is really green. Homosexuality is not and never will be genetic.

You never know. There is already some evidence pointing to it. While the evidence is debatable, one day it may actually be proven. You can't just rule it out. And you didn't answer my questions: Why would anyone choose a lifestyle that is discriminted against and potentially dangerous if it would be so easy to just flip a switch and become heterosexual? And if homosexuality is proven to be genetic, would you still believe it's a sin?


As for Bible inaccuracies, there are plenty (which I'll put in spoiler tags because of length and it's not directly relevant).

Spoiler

According to Genesis 1, God creates the world in this order:
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Ocean
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (
Day 5: Animals
Day 6: Adam and Eve


But according to Genesis 2:
1. Earth and heavens
2. Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
3. Plants
4. Animals
5. Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)


GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


What about the righteous?
PS 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."


Are Jesus and God equal?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


Who was at Jesus' tomb?
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.


Is God for war or peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.


Is God good to all or vengeful?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.


On incest:
DEUT 27:22 Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother.
LEV 20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter...it is a wicked thing.
GEN 20: 11-12 Abraham replied, "I said to myself, 'There is surely no fear of God in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife.' Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father though not of my mother; and she became my wife.
GEN 17: 15-16 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife...I bless her, and give thee a son also of her.
- And the children of Adam and Eve would have committed incest to reproduce.


On seeing God:
GEN 32: 30 I have seen God face to face.
JOHN 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time.

I don't mean to pick apart your religion, after all I'm Christian too. But I'm just trying to prove the point that not every part of the Bible should be taken literally. It doesn't mean the Bible isn't religiously true. Many parts of the Bible weren't written until decades after the events happened, and they are subject to error. Even so, not everyone believes in the Bible, and therefore its beliefs should not be forced on everyone, especially in a country that allows freedom of religion.


And it's not your sleep I'm concerned about (though I do hope you get some good sleep ^_^). But if you believe in something, then others need to hear it. Or else only one side of the story gets told and the world could continue its "moral degradation." I'm not saying you have to post here, you have the right to stay away if you wish


Sorry if I seem a little heated. I'm extremely offended that my own mother won't accept my friend and fears that I will catch his "disease," and that she wouldn't even accept her own son if I were gay.

 

[Jamison]

Goodness, this thing just really blew up after I went to bed...I knew I should've stayed up.

Alright, I just want to hit on some of the things that have been said.

This country is based on freedom of religion (that's why the first settlers came over here in the first place...to escape religious persecution). As much as some people would like it, laws are not supposed to be made solely on the basis of religion, but on what's best for Americans, regardless of their religious beliefs. I understand the Bible, and while not a scholar I have read a good portion of it and studied it. I, personally, don't agree with it and don't use it as my basis for what's wrong and what's not. I've come up with what I believe is wrong completely separate from what the Bible says...it just so happens that some of things that I think are "morally" wrong are also things that the Bible says are morally wrong. That doesn't mean I have to follow everything the Bible says, just because we may agree on some aspects.

As AliasALIAS pointed out there are many contradictions throughout the Bible. While not lessening it's value to Christians, it does show that you need to take everything written in it with a grain of salt.

Homosexuality, while not proven concretly to be genetic, has had several findings to prove it as so. There are experiments going on all the time to find out whether or not it's something your born with. One such experiment showed that a gay male's brain reacted very differently than a straight male's brain when encountering male and female pheromones. The straight males had a spike in activity in the area of the brain that controls sexual desires and the like, the gay males did not. They had a spike in activity when presented with male pheromones. The same thing happened with gay and straight females. This helps show that it is probably not a choice. I don't react to females releasing pheromones because I'm not attracted to them, but I do when a male does. That's something that you can't train your brain to do. And I'm also in the belief that homosexuals would not choose this life. Who would want to choose a life where they are constantly put down, assulted, insulted, disowned by their families, and sometimes have violent acts committed against them? No one in their right mind would choose such a thing.

While interracial marriage isn't forbidden in the Bible (at least to my knowledge) I think the argument still applies. Many Christians were (and still are) against interracial marriage because it is "against God's will". Bob Jones University in SC has even banned interracial dating on campus, because they don't feel it reflects the morals of God. Like I said before, the apocolypse didn't occur when we allowed interracial couples to marry, so why should it occur if we allow homosexuals to marry?

To be blunt, it seems like people need to mind their own business. I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own home...it doesn't affect me. If a homosexual couple wants to have a sexual relationship and get married, why on earth is it any of my business? It has absolutely no affect on me what so ever. Just like if I wanted to get involved in a sexual relationship and get married doesn't affect them. Having gays marry will not alter any of the relationships I have with others. If it did then those relationships would be poor excuses for ones anyways.

 

[sugababyboo]

Goodness, this thing just really blew up after I went to bed...I knew I should've stayed up.

Alright, I just want to hit on some of the things that have been said.

This country is based on freedom of religion (that's why the first settlers came over here in the first place...to escape religious persecution). As much as some people would like it, laws are not supposed to be made solely on the basis of religion, but on what's best for Americans, regardless of their religious beliefs. I understand the Bible, and while not a scholar I have read a good portion of it and studied it. I, personally, don't agree with it and don't use it as my basis for what's wrong and what's not. I've come up with what I believe is wrong completely separate from what the Bible says...it just so happens that some of things that I think are "morally" wrong are also things that the Bible says are morally wrong. That doesn't mean I have to follow everything the Bible says, just because we may agree on some aspects.

As AliasALIAS pointed out there are many contradictions throughout the Bible. While not lessening it's value to Christians, it does show that you need to take everything written in it with a grain of salt.

Homosexuality, while not proven concretly to be genetic, has had several findings to prove it as so. There are experiments going on all the time to find out whether or not it's something your born with. One such experiment showed that a gay male's brain reacted very differently than a straight male's brain when encountering male and female pheromones. The straight males had a spike in activity in the area of the brain that controls sexual desires and the like, the gay males did not. They had a spike in activity when presented with male pheromones. The same thing happened with gay and straight females. This helps show that it is probably not a choice. I don't react to females releasing pheromones because I'm not attracted to them, but I do when a male does. That's something that you can't train your brain to do. And I'm also in the belief that homosexuals would not choose this life. Who would want to choose a life where they are constantly put down, assulted, insulted, disowned by their families, and sometimes have violent acts committed against them? No one in their right mind would choose such a thing.

While interracial marriage isn't forbidden in the Bible (at least to my knowledge) I think the argument still applies. Many Christians were (and still are) against interracial marriage because it is "against God's will". Bob Jones University in SC has even banned interracial dating on campus, because they don't feel it reflects the morals of God. Like I said before, the apocolypse didn't occur when we allowed interracial couples to marry, so why should it occur if we allow homosexuals to marry?

To be blunt, it seems like people need to mind their own business. I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own home...it doesn't affect me. If a homosexual couple wants to have a sexual relationship and get married, why on earth is it any of my business? It has absolutely no affect on me what so ever. Just like if I wanted to get involved in a sexual relationship and get married doesn't affect them. Having gays marry will not alter any of the relationships I have with others. If it did then those relationships would be poor excuses for ones anyways.

So, Jamison pretty much said what I was about to say..once again I just wanted to post this because Margaret Cho (at least to me) was spot on in this entry.

9/11/2003
Gay Marriage

Gay culture seems to be ever present these days. There are a myriad of television shows: Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, Boy Meets Boy, Will and Grace, Queer as Folk. Madonna and Britney practice a little lesbian action on the VMAs. Interior designers are the new rock stars, and gay is the new straight. But there is a co-opting of the culture here, as the mainstream society robs the jewels of queer community, like better window treatments and the importance of a multi-step skincare regimen, but there is still an egregious lack of equality. It seems like gays and lesbians can do all the things that straight people can do, society is saying "You are ok just as you are, just don't try to get married or anything!" It's like when whites stole rock and roll from blacks in the 50's and the kids were all dancing to Little Richard. We love your music, but please don't use that drinking fountain.

You can go to Las Vegas, get married by an Elvis impersonator, in a drive thru, and be driven in a hearse to have a reception in a graveyard. But you have to be straight in order to do so. That is why I don't buy the argument that marriage is a sacred act between a man and a woman. Sacred? Carmen Electra and Dennis Rodman got married. Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley. Liza Minelli and David Gest. Liza Minelli and Peter Allen. Actually, Liza seems to be marrying all the gays.

The disparity of rights between heterosexual married couples and domestic 'partners' is no small number. 1049 federal rights are denied gay and lesbian couples because of their second class status in the area of holy matrimony. These range from the outrageous, like limitations in adopting children, even the tragedy of orphaned children being taken from foster care because the parents were gay, to the idiotic, like no family discounts for gays in national parks. They don't care how many times you play "We are Family" by Sister Sledge. You are still paying full price.

Yet at the same time, gays and lesbians are required to pay the same taxes as every other citizen. There is not any type of compensation given, for the lack of freedoms that keep the queer community at a loss. If the amendment banning gay marriage is actually passed, then it would be the first time that the constitution would be amended specifically to deny the rights of a specific minority, which frankly is downright unconstitutional. The argument is ludicrous. Same sex couples should have the ability to get married by Elvis, just like everyone else.

 

[Jamison]

This just seems ridiculous.

Far-right group to use Macy's parade to spread antigay message


The balloons at Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade won't be the only things filled with hot air this week in New York.

Antigay Colorado group Focus on the Family said Tuesday that its members plan to distribute 5,000 "stress balls" along the parade route to promote a Web site it operates that claims that homosexuality is a disorder that can be cured through faith. Visitors to the site, TroubledWith.com, who think they might be gay or lesbian are told, "You're not simply 'wired that way.'" In another section, visitors are told that being gay or lesbian can be prevented, because "like other adult problems, homosexuality begins at home. Mom and Dad are key players." Also to blame are porn, the media, and "seduction by peers."


The Web site also carries faith-based advice on topics ranging from eating disorders to depression.

Focus on the Family plans to run 30-second commercials in the New York market during The Oprah Winfrey Show and Dr. Phil. The group is already running ads on an electronic billboard in Times Square.

The conservative ministry appears to be in a desperate search for new, younger followers to tune in to the radio show by Focus founder James Dobson. Web site creator Steve Watters told the Associated Press that the number of listeners has not been growing in recent years and that most people who call for help are in their late 40s. (Advocate.com)

 

[sugababyboo]

This just seems ridiculous.

Thanks hun! Yes...but out of all places why NYC?! I would love to see how a gay person would react if he or she was handed one of those stress balls.

 

[Alias_Gay]

Thanks hun! Yes...but out of all places why NYC?! I would love to see how a gay person would react if he or she was handed one of those stress balls.

well, it would become a stress-ball for whoever gave it to me ...

 

[sugababyboo]

I would throw it away. The article says that they're trying to recruit more people by doing this. Being ignored would be the best way to well get to them.

 

[Sex-Dwarf]

Why are we having this debate of weather being gay and gay marriage is rigtht or wrong? A person should be judged on how they treat mankind, not on who they choose as a life partner, have sex with or who they want to marry! Leave religion out of it!

 

[sugababyboo]

Battle intensifies over gay marriage in Massachusetts

By Jason SzepWed Nov 23, 7:18 PM ET

Backers of a proposed constitutional amendment that would outlaw gay marriage in Massachusetts said on Wednesday they had more than double the number of signatures needed to put the issue to voters.

But gay rights lawyers threatened a legal challenge to stop the ballot initiative, underscoring deepening tension over the divisive issue a year after Massachusetts became the first U.S. state to legalize gay marriage.

A loose coalition of conservative and Christian groups seeking to ban same-sex marriage had to gather at least 65,825 signatures before state lawmakers could decide whether to put the question to a public referendum in 2008.

On Wednesday, as a deadline passed to submit the signatures to town and city clerks who must check their authenticity, jubilant officials at the Massachusetts Family Institute and other conservatives announced they had found solid support.

"We have more than surpassed our goal of 120,000 signatures, and we expect there will be a significantly larger tally than that when the final numbers come up," the institute's president, Kristian Mineau, told Reuters.

Massachusetts' highest court ruled in 2003 that it was unconstitutional to ban gay marriage, paving the way for America's first same-sex marriages in May the following year.

Conservatives and some religious groups say the issue is so important that voters should decide it, not the state Supreme Court, a position backed by Massachusetts' Republican governor, Mitt Romney, a devout Mormon with White House ambitions.

LEGAL SHOWDOWN

Gay rights lawyers are girding for a legal showdown.

They say that under the state Constitution, a ballot initiative cannot reverse a judicial decision. They plan to sue the state's attorney general, who approved the ballot initiative on September 7.

"We're going to be wrangling over one little sentence in the Constitution," said Gary Buseck, legal director at the Gay & Lesbian Advocates & Defenders, which successfully argued the

2002 case that opened the door to gay marriage in the state.

As the battle intensifies, the country is looking on.

Texas this month became the 19th U.S. state to approve a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage. But reflecting a mixed national mood, Maine voters this month rejected a conservative-backed proposal to repeal a gay-rights law.

An ABC/Washington Post poll in January found that 41 percent of American adults thought gay marriage and civil unions should be legal and 55 percent did not.

But that poll also showed a conflicting view among people in the prime marrying ages of between 18 to 29 -- 55 percent of that group supported gay marriage and 42 percent did not.

The U.S. Supreme Court has not taken a case on gay marriage, leaving states to decide the issue.

"Massachusetts is ground zero for the definition of marriage," said Mineau.

If the signatures on the petition are approved by December 7, his group and other conservatives would then need further approval by 25 percent of the 200-member state Legislature over two straight sittings -- one in 2006 and the other in 2007 -- before the issue could be put to voters in 2008.

The initiative, if passed, would not seek to annul about 6,500 marriage licenses already issued to same-sex couples.

 

[jessie tubb]

i totally support gay marriges, i am 100 per cent behind them.
coz i am in year ten we get to make a year book for our grade, and we had to fill in a voting form with questions like; 'who is the sweetest couple?' and 'who has the best nickname?' etc. and the winners for the sweetest couple are my friends; who are both girls. like they one hands down, i know i got to count the votes. they were so happy when they found out.
but then a couple of days ago the head teacher of the arts department, Mr Shortle, turn around and told them that that they could be in the year book because it was...wait for it..."politically incorrect".
bulls***. i mean how can they do that, i was so angry coz they deseive it being in the year book.
and at school they teach us about the discrimination act that all schools in australia have to abide by, and the teachers are supposed to be good examples of this, and look at what they are doing, right in front of our eyes.
i know this is not an example of gay marriges, but it is all under the same catagory.
my parents have brought me up to understand and not to be affraid of things that are different to me. it also helps when to of my friends are gay, well actually they are bi, but i support them, expesially when people come up to them and chuck stuff at them. but they put put up with it and hold their heads high, and love them for it. they are even planning to get married when they are older and asked me to be one of their bridesmaids.
i think that all of the people who are homophobic are affraid coz they are different.
everyone has the right to get married to the person the love, their sex/gender doesn't matter.
to me a marrige it to signify the love between two people.
people need to come to terms with the fact that there are gays and lesbians out there and they have just as much right to get married as any straight couple does
and as one of my friends quotes goes:
"you laugh coz im different,
i laugh coz your all the same"
i rest may case (thats if i had a case in the first place????)