Should there be evil players as well or not?

Should HJ have evil players as well?


  • Total voters
    62

Hunl

Cadet
I metioned the willingness to destroy the entire world as well, so just by restating what I've already said, no. However, anyone who is really evil just isn't going to get along well with "good" people.

I think, however, that we tend to overuse the term evil. More and more and more things are being called "evil" now-a-days. Before it was applied to terrorists, child pornographers, rogue nation leaders and such, evil refered to work of the devil and his servents (who are innately against order and peace and all good things), the actions of truly sick individuals like serial killers, people who torture for their own amusement, and so forth. I personally think Communism and mass-murder do not both equally deserve the terrm "evil", nor do I believe that a terrorist who is trying to make a political point through violence and scare tactics is on par with a psychopath who mutilates people for pleasure.

Evil is a truly sick, twisted thing. It is a corruption of all good morals and anything good in human nature. Anything less, to me, is simply deviant, selfish, violent, or misguided behavior.

I also firmly believe that true evil is not something that most humans can wrap their minds around. We tend to put kiddy gloves on evil when we apply it to most things.

Well yes, this is Chaotic Evil at it's finest. Evil in itself just pretty much means you do not really care for life. Killing sentient beings brings pleasure rather then moral anguish and unlike Good they do not seek to always preserve things.

I don't know, the D&D axis is just more friendly to me. Since not everyone has to be trying to destroy the existence of this world to be labeled "Evil".

The Devil trys to overthrow God yes, he could be evil but you need to ask yourself, is he just trying to annihilate the entire world or rather is it misguided attempts for a new order? Sure he does not mind killing, and that in itself is what "Evil" really is.
 

Luciro

Cadet
Well now you're just saying folks in the media and the governments used evil to describe "different" things. Which we also used it as, but that was completely my intent. I think the three faction fighting will make some deeds villianous, will there be villianous heroes in heroes' journey?
I think evil is doing anything with ill intent. Or even doing things without considering their consenquenses.
That's where the evil of gambling comes into play.
The evil in spreading rumors at work.
Sure those are minor minor things that mostly annoy, but you can't deny their intent.
Also remember the most evil things, you don't even notice. Or don't care to notice.
Got any change?
 

Valendros

Cadet
Gate said:
I'm all for murder and violence and theft and bullying, but I really don't see the need for a faction of players out there trying to bring down the carefully constructed society that Simu has put so much time into making.

Ya, that's the GMs job!

Society will be be all sunshine and daisies, everybody will be working toward getting their next level and chatting up their friends, not so much as a care in the world... until the first GM comes up with a wonderful way to destroy it. This isn't like the TV show "Heros" where the destruction of a city would lead to massive loss of life, this is a game (I know that's a TV show, but a TV show where people stay dead... In a game, nobody stays dead). If the wanton distruction of an entire town is what it takes to get the players to band together to defend the world and rebuild once they've driven off the attackers, thus make them a more tight-nit group, GMs have the ability, and the desire to do it.

And it will be a better game because of it.
 
I agree with what one of the earlier posters said, a hero can be defined in anyone's eyes, they dont necessarily have to be "good" or "evil" to be a hero.
 

Kuzzle

Cadet
Well yes, this is Chaotic Evil at it's finest. Evil in itself just pretty much means you do not really care for life. Killing sentient beings brings pleasure rather then moral anguish and unlike Good they do not seek to always preserve things.

I don't know, the D&D axis is just more friendly to me. Since not everyone has to be trying to destroy the existence of this world to be labeled "Evil".

The Devil trys to overthrow God yes, he could be evil but you need to ask yourself, is he just trying to annihilate the entire world or rather is it misguided attempts for a new order? Sure he does not mind killing, and that in itself is what "Evil" really is.

If "not really caring for life" makes you evil, I'm a damn spokesperson. Have fun with your little "D&D + Bible = Wha-wha?!" thing, by the way. o.O :^O (Sorry, I just found it comical, for some reason, that you referenced.)
 

Hunl

Cadet
If "not really caring for life" makes you evil, I'm a damn spokesperson. Have fun with your little "D&D + Bible = Wha-wha?!" thing, by the way. o.O :^O (Sorry, I just found it comical, for some reason, that you referenced.)

Eh, it is more then just "Not caring". Also, how did you find it comical in the reference?
 
not sure that "evil" could really be defined as just "not caring for life"... evil races usually care about certain types of life... just not necessarily the same life that a good race would... instead of caring about trees and fluffy bunnies, they might like spiders, or bats... and they most certainly care about their own life, and life of their comrades.... it just seems to me that in the "evil" role of a character, they are usually more brash, less concerned with "goodie goodie" feelings, and insults are almost like compliments. There are some that want nothing more than to destroy everything, but most know that destroying everything would include themselves, and thats not such a good idea.

The evil characters i play are normally just "misunderstood"... they are friendly for the most part, but care nothing of someones feelings, and are strong believers in "survival of the fittest"... killing the weak is being merciful. The act isnt considered evil, just necessary, and necessity means carrying responisbility for unpopular actions.
 

Hunl

Cadet
not sure that "evil" could really be defined as just "not caring for life"... evil races usually care about certain types of life... just not necessarily the same life that a good race would... instead of caring about trees and fluffy bunnies, they might like spiders, or bats... and they most certainly care about their own life, and life of their comrades.... it just seems to me that in the "evil" role of a character, they are usually more brash, less concerned with "goodie goodie" feelings, and insults are almost like compliments. There are some that want nothing more than to destroy everything, but most know that destroying everything would include themselves, and thats not such a good idea.

The evil characters i play are normally just "misunderstood"... they are friendly for the most part, but care nothing of someones feelings, and are strong believers in "survival of the fittest"... killing the weak is being merciful. The act isnt considered evil, just necessary, and necessity means carrying responisbility for unpopular actions.

The latter half sounds more neutral to me. Real Evil is not "Misunderstood" they enjoy their jobs of killing people, whether for their own twisted purpose or for the person with the most money. The key here is they are only concerned for their life, only them, nothing else.
 

Kuzzle

Cadet
The latter half sounds more neutral to me. Real Evil is not "Misunderstood" they enjoy their jobs of killing people, whether for their own twisted purpose or for the person with the most money. The key here is they are only concerned for their life, only them, nothing else.

If they enjoy killing people, then it seems to me that the key is them enjoying the killing, not them not caring if someone dies. There's a big difference, I think.
 

Luciro

Cadet
Well evils extremely hard to label and you guys suck at it.
Quite frankly not caring or caring too much about anything can be evil. Good and evil are extremes, and like it or not there will be evil heroes when they tell their tales. It's just a matter of perspective.
To one faction their hero who's cut down all foes in his way will seem truly like a hero. While to the friends of those that were cut down he'll seem truly like a demon. I just hope HJ does indeed get that martial with it's mechanics.
 

Gate

Cadet
See, I have no problem with people seeming evil from another person's perspective. In fact, I highly welcome that. But truly being evil, is what I have a problem with. Perspective vs. absolute truth. Someone who seems evil in the eyes of someone else, may actually not be, and might have non-malicious/non-cruel/non-hateful reasons for the things he does.
 
I thought evil and good were always about perspective. The "evil" person will always seem good to SOMEONE, whether it's another evil person or just themselves.
 

Gate

Cadet
I meant that I don't mind other people considering someone evil- not that person saying "hey man, I'm evil!" and another saying "hey I'm good" and another "hey, I'm chaotic neutral." If it's others doing the defining, fine, but if it's the person themselves saying "I'm playing an eeeeevil character," or clicks an "evil alignment tab," then no thanks.
 

Kuzzle

Cadet
I meant that I don't mind other people considering someone evil- not that person saying "hey man, I'm evil!" and another saying "hey I'm good" and another "hey, I'm chaotic neutral." If it's others doing the defining, fine, but if it's the person themselves saying "I'm playing an eeeeevil character," or clicks an "evil alignment tab," then no thanks.

So a person shouldn't set out to be "evil", then? For instance, if someone starts out with a back story of killing dogs for fun, he's evil. Like, even if he grows up to be some kind of faction hero. At least, that's my view on it. There's not a whole lot of grey area in my book, so for someone to be "evil", they have to really go for it. "Misunderstood" and "Apathetic" don't cut it if you want to play an "Evil" character. You've got to go for downright malicious. Even then, he's probably just a -----.(Why is this bleeped?)

So I almost agree with you, Gate. My main difference of opinion lies with my definition of "evil", I think. There are just some things which make the character "evil" enough to be branded so, I think, regardless of whether or not he's part of your faction.
 

Hunl

Cadet
If they enjoy killing people, then it seems to me that the key is them enjoying the killing, not them not caring if someone dies. There's a big difference, I think.

And to enjoy it you must not really care, otherwise you would have feelings of remorse, no?
 

Kuzzle

Cadet
And to enjoy it you must not really care, otherwise you would have feelings of remorse, no?

So if someone enjoys baseball, they don't care about it? That's stupid.

I rank everything from '-10 to 10', and not caring is a '0'. Enjoying it would put it in the positive numbers, feeling all bad about it would put it in the negatives.
 

Hunl

Cadet
So if someone enjoys baseball, they don't care about it? That's stupid.

I rank everything from '-10 to 10', and not caring is a '0'. Enjoying it would put it in the positive numbers, feeling all bad about it would put it in the negatives.

You are not killing people in baseball, geez....Playing Baseball has nothing to really do with the evil concept that we are talking about.
 

Kuzzle

Cadet
You are not killing people in baseball, geez....Playing Baseball has nothing to really do with the evil concept that we are talking about.

You don't kill people when you play baseball? Sheesh, that's nothing like the baseball I used to play, then! :P

Seriously, though, it's the same thing. If you didn't care about it, you would neither enjoy it, nor dislike it. Unless of course you're saying "Don't care about whether the person lives or dies." and not "Don't care whether or not I kill them.", as there is a difference. I'm guessing you mean the former, but you referred to both as though they were the same thing, so I can't really be sure.
 

Hunl

Cadet
You don't kill people when you play baseball? Sheesh, that's nothing like the baseball I used to play, then! :P

Seriously, though, it's the same thing. If you didn't care about it, you would neither enjoy it, nor dislike it. Unless of course you're saying "Don't care about whether the person lives or dies." and not "Don't care whether or not I kill them.", as there is a difference. I'm guessing you mean the former, but you referred to both as though they were the same thing, so I can't really be sure.

Tch...Of course I mean the former. I thought it was rather obvioius..<sighs>
 
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