Simutronics: Good?

[Evran]

Wow, Syl. #1 is way harsh. I don't think I could even play like that. I mean, sure, I like RP as much as the next guy, but. I mean, that would bug the hell out of me. It'd be like seeing a cup teetering on the edge of a table and not being able to move it. *shudder*

#2's ok, though.

#3... Well, some people like it, some don't. *shrug*

#4... What's it even mean? I like to know what the specific rules are, otherwise I'm more likely to break them.

#1 and #4 are likely taken from his experiences with DR.

#1 - Most numbers in DR are hidden and replaced by descriptive phrases. Once you know the phrases, you know the numbers, it just makes the game that much more immersive.

#4 - In DR PvP is governed by player 'consent' rules. They are ostensibly put in plaec to prevent random player killing and unfair tactics. They basically detail when its okay to PK and when its not. But theres a lot of subjectivity and unfortunately, the more rules you put down on paper, the more rules there are to twist and bend to your liking. Consent in DR is always a big topic on the forums as its one of the biggest things people have differences over. I personally avoided PvP entirely just so I didn't have to deal with some snert who thinks he's in the right just because he's found what amounts to a loophole in the consent rules. Obviously Sylvado has had at lesat one bad experience relating to consent.

 

[Sylvado]

Wow, Syl. #1 is way harsh. I don't think I could even play like that. I mean, sure, I like RP as much as the next guy, but. I mean, that would bug the hell out of me. It'd be like seeing a cup teetering on the edge of a table and not being able to move it. *shudder*

#2's ok, though.

#3... Well, some people like it, some don't. *shrug*

#4... What's it even mean? I like to know what the specific rules are, otherwise I'm more likely to break them.

1. Why do you need numbers? You just play the game and you improve. Try to climb the cliff and you don't make it, go climb other things for a while and then you can make it. You don't have that ticker to watch all the time so you are not out looking how to optimize how quickly it ticks. You just play the game.

2. Not a lot different than 1.

3. Let event happen in game time, If a city gets attacked it should take a day to get help from other cities. Then the event lasts for more than 10 minutes.

4. Nobody has to tell you what harassment is. All a rule book does is give policy players something to hide behind.
-----------------------------------------

#1 and #4 are likely taken from his experiences with DR.

#1 - Most numbers in DR are hidden and replaced by descriptive phrases. Once you know the phrases, you know the numbers, it just makes the game that much more immersive.

#4 - In DR PvP is governed by player 'consent' rules. They are ostensibly put in plaec to prevent random player killing and unfair tactics. They basically detail when its okay to PK and when its not. But theres a lot of subjectivity and unfortunately, the more rules you put down on paper, the more rules there are to twist and bend to your liking. Consent in DR is always a big topic on the forums as its one of the biggest things people have differences over. I personally avoided PvP entirely just so I didn't have to deal with some snert who thinks he's in the right just because he's found what amounts to a loophole in the consent rules. Obviously Sylvado has had at lesat one bad experience relating to consent.

All skill numbers are available to the players in DR. Since you have some numbers as a base you can derive the others. Remove them all and it won't be an issue. I've played DR for close to 10 years, I've never been killed by or killed another player.

 

[Rics]

It a role playing game, you shouldn't get a reward for role playing, you should be asked to leave if you don't.

Well now, that all depends on what you consider a reward, and how the reward is given. In fact, this is a great topic and it deserves its own thread. Thus, I'm going to start a new thread so this topic can be discussed in greater detail. I'm very interested in hearing what people have to say about it.

 

[Evran]

All skill numbers are available to the players in DR. Since you have some numbers as a base you can derive the others. Remove them all and it won't be an issue.

Ummm... that's what I said, just not in as many words.... All but your basic stats (e.g. Strength, Charisma, etc.) and skills (e.g. Shield Usage, Hiding, etc.) and a couple of derived stats (e.g. Concentration) are hidden (e.g. Vitality, Fatigue, magical attunement, attack rolls, damage rolls, etc.) You can either figure it out using numbers or just learn the descriptive phrases (e.g. neglible is a level 1 wound, insignificant, level 2, etc.) And even if you took all the numbers away, its still a number based system since it a computer program. People will find ways to figure them out.

I've played DR for close to 10 years, I've never been killed by or killed another player.

Then why such a hatred for 'consent'? There has to be some reason you made such a strong statement against it.
-----------------------------------------
Hmmmm, I was just rereading the posts you and I made, Sylvado to better get a grasp why we are disagreeing yet seem to be on the same side of the RP fence. I seem to have missed that those 4 suggestions were what you would like to see on a RP server rather than just on any server. #1 and #4 certainly make more sense to me in that light, though I still think that people will still figure out the numbers behind the scenes. Just on a RP server a larger percentage won't.

As for the harrassment is the only rule suggestion, it would work great on a server with low population (e.g. DR Plat) because there is a small player to GM ratio and the players tend to self-police when everyone knows everyone else. But once you get into larger numbers of players, the ability of GMs to handle harrassment effectively without guidance of policy goes down. I grant you that the rules of consent in DR are incredibly silly and obtuse at times and largely were created in reaction to conflicts so are rather haphazard. I am no fan of consent rules in DR which is why I avoided PvP like the plague. And when consent rules cause me as an empath to think twice about casting Heart Link on a patient I am healing when I need the effects of the spell, there is a problem with those rules.

 

[Thaos Nightwind]

1. Hide all attribute and skill numbers from the players.
2. No levels based on skill. Your standing in your guild should be based on what you have done with your skills instead of how much skill you have.
3.No global chat. Communication in game should be limited to the range of your voice.
4. No "consent" rule book. The only rule should be no harassment and that would be determined in a subjective manner by the GM on duty.

Numbers 1 & 3 I would suggest as 'Opional' via options panel to:

'Show/Hide' skill {checkboxes}
'Show/Hide' attributes {checkboxes}
'Show/Hide' Global Chat {checkboxes}

Predetermining the players flexibility of user interface options would probably result in later patches & updates.

 

[Rics]

Numbers 1 & 3 I would suggest as 'Opional' via options panel to:

'Show/Hide' skill {checkboxes}
'Show/Hide' attributes {checkboxes}
'Show/Hide' Global Chat {checkboxes}

Predetermining the players flexibility of user interface options would probably result in later patches & updates.

I very much agree with this. That should be a number one rule: It's always easier to turn off a feature people don't want then it would be to incode a feature people do want. Players want options. And the people that don't like certain things can simply turn them off, whereas players who do want certian things can't turn on what's not there...thus you have a community outcry for extra features to be added and options to be available resulting in (as Night said) more work from devs and more patches/updates/expansions.

I too, Sylv, do not like global chat, and while playing I keep them off completely. But I do, however, usually have a hidden window (or create a new window) for these channels when I am bored (since I play at off-peak hours) or to plan RP events oocily.

 

[QuantumWire]

I very much agree with this. That should be a number one rule: It's always easier to turn off a feature people don't want then it would be to incode a feature people do want. Players want options. And the people that don't like certain things can simply turn them off, whereas players who do want certian things can't turn on what's not there...thus you have a community outcry for extra features to be added and options to be available resulting in (as Night said) more work from devs and more patches/updates/expansions.

I too, Sylv, do not like global chat, and while playing I keep them off completely. But I do, however, usually have a hidden window (or create a new window) for these channels when I am bored (since I play at off-peak hours) or to plan RP events oocily.

Agreed.
The idea to limit conversation to a certain radius, while realistic, is too restrictive for a game, imo. When I want to team up with a friend who comes online but happens to be in another city I'd want to contact him directly, not via mail (and wait a day).

 

[HJ-Navarre]

Agreed.
The idea to limit conversation to a certain radius, while realistic, is too restrictive for a game, imo. When I want to team up with a friend who comes online but happens to be in another city I'd want to contact him directly, not via mail (and wait a day).

I disagree. I think any direct communication with friends should be done via third party IM clients. It wouldn't mind if you could easily alt+tab or even have an IM client, like Trillian, built into the game GUI. The difference with using an IM client vs. just a /tell is that you need to be intimate with someone before you can talk to them across the planet. I don't think you should just be able to communicate with someone you don't know at a whim.

'Show/Hide' Global Chat {checkboxes}

Also... I despise the Global Chat and I do NOT want an option to turn it on/off. I don't want anyone to have it... for the same reasons someone mentioned in the 'floating names above our toons' thread... it is not just that I do not want to see it, but I also don't want anyone else to have it either. RP example: A small villiage is raided by Ukar and help is needed to defeat them... A: Someone alive or dead by Ukar (the dead shouldn't be able to chat either) types a message for Help into the Global Chat and help comes from everywhere... blah blah. B: A small group of villiagers make it to the stable and manage to escape, on horse back, toward the closest City to get help. The Ukar take notice and chase them down. If they make it to the city, they can ask for help and spread the news of the invasion, if they are struck down (combat on horseback? fun! Think: Arawyn's flight from the ring wraiths in LOTR .. I digress.), then the Ukar win the villiage and can begin to build defenses for an eventual attempt to retake the villiage.. so on and so forth... Anyway... I prefer option B, without the global chat channel... I think it creates more opportunity for better Roleplay and better GAME play. I would hate to be taking part in story 'B' while someone essentially ruins my fun by just stomping on it with option 'A' :rolleyes2:

 

[Jaraeth]

My own rules of thumb:

1. Give options to players, don't just rule them out. This will cause less alienation of your memberbase, and allow players of all types to play your game.
2. Some chat's like Guild Chat/Alliance Chat should be global to all guild/clan/alliance members. Chat's should also allow creation of new, specialized chat channels, like DAoC, WoW & EQ do. Sometimes, my guild and/or other friends RP in this channels in addition to /say, /tell, and /emote.

Take out global chat, especially disallowing guild/clan chat & creation of custom chat, and you just eliminated me from playing the game. I want them, and won't play a game without them.

~ Jaraeth

 

[HJ-Navarre]

Take out global chat, especially disallowing guild/clan chat & creation of custom chat, and you just eliminated me from playing the game. I want them, and won't play a game without them.

I would love to take such a stance on the opposite point, but, I fear I would be left with no games to play except DragonRealms. blorch.

 

[WatchMaker]

Thats one thing CoH has on other mmorpgs. You can pretty much make any type of chat channel you want.

 

[Jaraeth]

Thats one thing CoH has on other mmorpgs. You can pretty much make any type of chat channel you want.

WoW you can do that too... and I believe EQ2. In DAoC we could make a chat channel for any use, however, you could only be a part of that one chat channel, and no other. Many newer games, like CoH/CoV, WoW, and EQ2 now have support for multiple chat channels. People tend to use those for raids, RP groups, chat amongst officers, chat amongst guilds who have issues with one another (we used it alot in DAoC when GM's of guilds would talk to one another to eliminate squabbles between members).

Custom chat channels seems very essential to me now. Of course, we also use those extra chat channels to work with our Guild Event Managers in WoW at this time, so depending on the game, and the people using it... oft times, there's a need for multiple avenues of communication.

~ Jaraeth

 

[Daax]

CoH had too many chats. I really MTed alot there. And there was this one chat option in orange/yellow that I could never figure out what it's purpose was.

 

[Jaraeth]

I believe it is possible to really over-complicate and make chat channels messed up. WoW did a fairly decent job of this, every chat channel possible is displayed, and those that are changeable show their color and a check mark next to them to enable/disable them, and the creation of separate or tabbed windows so you can keep them seperate from one another, if so desired. CoH really did poorly on the organization of chat windows... I ignored mine 95% of the time, and that's not figuratively spoken.

~ Jaraeth

 

[Luciro]

I apologize if that sounded canned. It was attempt to portray the information, that I can talk about, in a professional manner. I wanted to ensure that there was no ambiguity or misleading statements.

Regarding the promotion of role-playing, what would you like to see?
We do have several things planned. Some things we have released, some we have not. Having strong lore, the ability to customize your character, and RP-centric servers are all planned.

If you have suggestions, please post them.

Thanks,
Cirakin

I dub thee, Rackin'.

Anyway, I understand that it was meant to sound professional and thus why I said canned, nothing against any of you guys here. The leash and I respect that, I'm just a tad antsy to see how the company will handle it in comparision and contrast to previous products. Or even other games out there.
Looking and dressing how I want is cool, but I can do that elsewhere as well.
Strong lore? I got a lot of questions about the lore, but it's stuff that can wait for a better opening rather than a reply on a thread wondering about the companies' drive.
Also I don't think until beta is well underway anyone can say there will be RP-centric servers. Questions need hammered out about enforcement.. The pros and cons vs a normal server. Will it just be a server with the letters (RP) italiced beside on a screen that 90% of the population won't even pay attention to.
What can I suggest? I've made what I think is a pretty good suggestion on another thread. About players rating players rather than just flat out offering a reward.
EVENTS! Not just instanced paid for missions to meet some devs for a celebrity opp. Throw a mechanical monster in a busy street for the hell of it and see how players respond.
Days of the week and a time cycle to possibly toss fake holidays at, that even prompted RPing on the infamous WoW RPPVP servers.
Want more? Ask these folks, and by all means if you guys have something underwraps that blows these meager suggestions out of the water. I can wait. Please surprise me. Cuz quite frankly, I think how you guys handle RP is now the only exciting thing I can think of for the game. Well the nemesis bit as well.

 

[milamber]

I think a big issue also (didn't see this in any previous posts I don't think) is that technology changes year to year. Because of this companies don't like to put out products with "old" technology. Therefore it makes it very difficult to develop software because you're trying to hit a moving target and having to retroactively "fix" things because of the technology changes.

Being in the software industry I see this a lot and it causes major issues so I'm not suprised it's taking a while to get this game out. But I think we can all agree based on the screenshots that it looks like they did an excellent job in keeping up with the technology. Remember that even 5 or 6 years ago the graphics capabilities they have today didn't exist...

 

[Thaos Nightwind]

I think a big issue also (didn't see this in any previous posts I don't think) is that technology changes year to year. Because of this companies don't like to put out products with "old" technology. Therefore it makes it very difficult to develop software because you're trying to hit a moving target and having to retroactively "fix" things because of the technology changes.

Being in the software industry I see this a lot and it causes major issues so I'm not suprised it's taking a while to get this game out. But I think we can all agree based on the screenshots that it looks like they did an excellent job in keeping up with the technology. Remember that even 5 or 6 years ago the graphics capabilities they have today didn't exist...

Good call. I know a retired programmer who's still young actually who simply got tired of having to have to keep up. But this bodes even better that HJ/Simu created their own graphics/physics engine.

 

[Karetyr]

Simutronics is on track to really break ground with Hero's Journey. What worries me isn't Simutronics' handling of HJ itself but rather the lack of marketing and PR....

 

[Evran]

Hmmm, good point. I haven't seen any mainstream adverts or PR stuff either. Perhaps its a bit early for it? MMOs tend to follow a slightly different, and more frenetic, release schedule than your typical box-title. Also, because of the push backs to date, playing safe might just be a better thing. Imagine the backlash if the entire gaming industry was following its release and it got pushed back a year, rather than just us advance fans of it.

 

[deserttfoxx]

Well, it is fine there isnt much pr, i think it should be saved until game is in beta, that way devs can concentrate on devoloping. I do however, wish we had more basic information such as class info, and a glance at skills.

Hopefully in the next 2 or 3 months we get a lot more stuff to lookforward too, i dont want it to be mid january and we are still in the dark waiting for that next dev article that reveals little or nothing. Hopefully closed beta starts and we see videos of gameplay.