Something worth watching
- Thread starter Aries
- Start date
I'm sure it's more then 2310 barrels of petroleum, and 1700 a day from Canada. The way Americans go through gasoline is insane, however it's our way of living. We don't have public transportation like other countries do. Would you give up your car?
Of course the electric car has been around. Their have been prototypes for years that would actually work, but would it fit the average consumer?
I don't get what your point is about gasoline going up, at all.
You act as if those trillions of dollars have all gone to waste. Of course it's a lot of money, and it is. Should we have spent that much? No. However you need to look at advances made as well. Iraq is in a better state then it was, or will be. Those trillions of dollars have helped millions of families be fed, and taken care of. The stock market has shot up since the war in Iraq. As all wars do, they improve the economy. It's a re-investment.
Their are always casualties in war.
Want more facts?
I don't see the WE in Canada either.[/b][/quote]
What on earth do you mean would an electric car fit the average consumer? OF COURSE IT WOULD! Not spending insane amounts of money on gasoline and polluting the environment would fit everyone like a glove.
The point I am trying to make about gasoline is that the Iraq war has actualy made things worse, and if you would fight in a war for oil I feel sorry for you.
The "flash movie" does have a name and is credited to www.infowars.com. Actualy watching the "flash movie" before commenting on it next time might help <_< .
F
frostydf2
Guest
On first note, I did watch the movie 
Lets say you get 60mpg in your new hybrid car. Now lets assume that you only get 30mpg, but you only pay $1.40 at the gas pump. Easy isn't it? Half the mpg, half the price of gas. Makes things simple. Now lets say you buy a small Honda. You get 35mpg, and you pay $2.80 a gallon. Still with me?
Next, we're going to start off the initial costs. On average a hybrid car will cost you $6,500 more then a regular gas car. So you say, "BUT WAIT!!! I'm still only paying half at the pump! So in the long run I'll save money, and the enviorment!" You are wrong again, so let me continue.
Ever 2-3 years you must replace the battery inside of a hybrid vehicle. That will run you around $1.2k ~ $3k. So lets give you the benefit of the doubt, you are the lucky one. Your battery lasts you 3 years, and you only have to pay $1.5k to replace it. Thats $500 a year just for a battery. Now lets do some simple calculations....
You could get 178 gallons of gas rounded down a year EXTRA just from staying to purely gas vehicle. That in itself is 6,250 miles for the gas run honda we were speaking of earlier. PLUS. That's giving you the benefit of the doubt as well. What if it only lasted 2 years, and you had to pay $3k?
So, some of you may see where I am going. However, I'll still continue for those who want to persist on argueing the situation. You had to pay an EXTRA $6,000 at the start right? Well an average consumer will keep a vehicle for 5 years. So you figure you are paying another extra $1.2K a year for that hybrid car. EXTRA. So from staying to a pure honda gasoline vehicle you will get an extra 428 gallons of gasoline rounding down again. Multiply that by 35, thats an extra 15,000 miles you gain.
Lets format this really quick
15,000
+ 6,250
----------
21,250 extra miles you gain by just staying gasoline. That's not even counting how fast your electric car is going to depreciate next to that honda you could have purchased.
Do you really save money? No. So for the average consumer, the answer is hybrid ISN'T FOR YOU!!!
I don't see why you wouldn't want to.
One last thing. I find it humerous that every major tragedy in the United States can't be blamed on other countries. It's as if the United States is a horrible country that needs to kill itself to get the point accross. Pearl Harbor, Vietnam, 9/11, Illegal Immigrants. In every event, the United States has to take the blame for something that happend.
So you're saying you'll SAVE money by purchasing an eletric car? WRONG!!! You couldn't be more wrong then ever, in fact it will end up costing you more money in the long run, how, and why?
Lets say you get 60mpg in your new hybrid car. Now lets assume that you only get 30mpg, but you only pay $1.40 at the gas pump. Easy isn't it? Half the mpg, half the price of gas. Makes things simple. Now lets say you buy a small Honda. You get 35mpg, and you pay $2.80 a gallon. Still with me?
Next, we're going to start off the initial costs. On average a hybrid car will cost you $6,500 more then a regular gas car. So you say, "BUT WAIT!!! I'm still only paying half at the pump! So in the long run I'll save money, and the enviorment!" You are wrong again, so let me continue.
Ever 2-3 years you must replace the battery inside of a hybrid vehicle. That will run you around $1.2k ~ $3k. So lets give you the benefit of the doubt, you are the lucky one. Your battery lasts you 3 years, and you only have to pay $1.5k to replace it. Thats $500 a year just for a battery. Now lets do some simple calculations....
You could get 178 gallons of gas rounded down a year EXTRA just from staying to purely gas vehicle. That in itself is 6,250 miles for the gas run honda we were speaking of earlier. PLUS. That's giving you the benefit of the doubt as well. What if it only lasted 2 years, and you had to pay $3k?
So, some of you may see where I am going. However, I'll still continue for those who want to persist on argueing the situation. You had to pay an EXTRA $6,000 at the start right? Well an average consumer will keep a vehicle for 5 years. So you figure you are paying another extra $1.2K a year for that hybrid car. EXTRA. So from staying to a pure honda gasoline vehicle you will get an extra 428 gallons of gasoline rounding down again. Multiply that by 35, thats an extra 15,000 miles you gain.
Lets format this really quick
15,000
+ 6,250
----------
21,250 extra miles you gain by just staying gasoline. That's not even counting how fast your electric car is going to depreciate next to that honda you could have purchased.
Do you really save money? No. So for the average consumer, the answer is hybrid ISN'T FOR YOU!!!
Americas economy is built upon oil. The ENTIRE economy. Imagine a day without Mexicans? Yea right! Imagine a day without gasoline, or oil. You don't think thats worth fighting for?
I don't see why you wouldn't want to.
One last thing. I find it humerous that every major tragedy in the United States can't be blamed on other countries. It's as if the United States is a horrible country that needs to kill itself to get the point accross. Pearl Harbor, Vietnam, 9/11, Illegal Immigrants. In every event, the United States has to take the blame for something that happend.
Frosty, good math, bad supposition, let me explain why...
First, you includ "depreceation of electric cars". in the current market, hybrid owners are actually being solicited by car dealers to buy their hybrids at a HIGHER cost than the consumer bought them for, due to the high consumer demand and the lack of supply. Car manufacturers arent cranking them out fast enough to keep up with demand, and most states have an average of a 6 month waiting period for shipping orders. This is Appreciation, not DEpreciation.
Secondly, your extrapolation of the maintenence cost/upkeep for the vehicles are based on the current market value of the batteries, not what they will be in 2.5-3 years, when they are needed. And as any consumer analyst will tell you, consumer goods (in most cases) halve their retail price withing the first 16 months after market release. Also, a lot of hybrids are using hydrogen cells, not batteries, wich only need to be refilled, not replaced.
Now, having said that....
Even as an avid treehugger, I agree with the rest of your supposition, though the final figures are much lower than you predict.
But as an avid treehugger, I also believe that despite the cost, it is the CONSUMERS duty to "vote" for the economy they want by knuckling down and paying that little extra to do the right thing. Companies that dont get revenue from the retail consumer inevetably go out of business. In other words, (everyone) quit bitching about the price of gas and ride your frigging bike in to work, or carpool ( and while your at it, quit bitching about the loss of convenience).
For the other points raised about the gulf war(s), the wars didnt raise the price of oil, nor did the recent problems in africa or south america do it. America only recieves 20% of its oil supply from overseas, and the national oil reserve wasnt even tapped into during the past 5 years, despite the disaster in the gulf states or the loss of imports from those countries I mentioned. The cold hard truth is, the AMERICAN oil and gas companies raised the prices, as shown by Exxons recent revenue increase (they have made more net profit in the past 6 months than they made during any 3 quarters during the fiscal years 2000-2004!)
Ok, I could go on for a looonnnngggg time on this, but its 1:46am and there is a distinct possiblilty I am ranting, so I will get down off of my treehugger soapbox (made from 100% recycled materials!) and let someone else post now, lol
Just my 2 cents, er 2 dollars, er, 2 oil barrels...
Xhar
First, you includ "depreceation of electric cars". in the current market, hybrid owners are actually being solicited by car dealers to buy their hybrids at a HIGHER cost than the consumer bought them for, due to the high consumer demand and the lack of supply. Car manufacturers arent cranking them out fast enough to keep up with demand, and most states have an average of a 6 month waiting period for shipping orders. This is Appreciation, not DEpreciation.
Secondly, your extrapolation of the maintenence cost/upkeep for the vehicles are based on the current market value of the batteries, not what they will be in 2.5-3 years, when they are needed. And as any consumer analyst will tell you, consumer goods (in most cases) halve their retail price withing the first 16 months after market release. Also, a lot of hybrids are using hydrogen cells, not batteries, wich only need to be refilled, not replaced.
Now, having said that....
Even as an avid treehugger, I agree with the rest of your supposition, though the final figures are much lower than you predict.
But as an avid treehugger, I also believe that despite the cost, it is the CONSUMERS duty to "vote" for the economy they want by knuckling down and paying that little extra to do the right thing. Companies that dont get revenue from the retail consumer inevetably go out of business. In other words, (everyone) quit bitching about the price of gas and ride your frigging bike in to work, or carpool ( and while your at it, quit bitching about the loss of convenience).
For the other points raised about the gulf war(s), the wars didnt raise the price of oil, nor did the recent problems in africa or south america do it. America only recieves 20% of its oil supply from overseas, and the national oil reserve wasnt even tapped into during the past 5 years, despite the disaster in the gulf states or the loss of imports from those countries I mentioned. The cold hard truth is, the AMERICAN oil and gas companies raised the prices, as shown by Exxons recent revenue increase (they have made more net profit in the past 6 months than they made during any 3 quarters during the fiscal years 2000-2004!)
Ok, I could go on for a looonnnngggg time on this, but its 1:46am and there is a distinct possiblilty I am ranting, so I will get down off of my treehugger soapbox (made from 100% recycled materials!) and let someone else post now, lol
Just my 2 cents, er 2 dollars, er, 2 oil barrels...
Xhar
F
frostydf2
Guest
If I had more time before I had to go to school I would reply to this post. However, it will just have to wait. Be ready.
HJ-Diviana
Cadet
Jesus was jewish, and he wasn't white! omggg!
People can't seem to accept that. He would have been extremely out of place if he had been white, and probably killed a lot sooner.
And he walked around with a prostitute.
So anyway, the whole hybrid car thing, it's not a complete solution.
A hydrogen powered car would be much better for everyone. (And water is pretty cheap, unless you live in a desert I guess)
I forgot what else I was going to say, so the end.
Kickinbama
Cadet
and i finally broke down out of curiousity and watched that video. not all of it, but about half of it. i will say it brings up a lot of questions and theories. but questions remain questions and theories remain theories; and as you say, are a bunch of "dribble" unless proven. i don't see a lot of hard truth in the movie. all i see is that we do not know exactly everything that transpired before, during and after; which i do believe. that video reminded me a lot of the half-truths that michael moore uses in his "mock-u-mentories."
Mary Magdaline was never directly linked with the prostitute who washed jesus' feet until hundreds of years afterwards, by the same people who denounced the copernican supposition of the movement of celestial bodies, based soley on personal oppinion and dogmatic interpritation of allready ancient lore. The SAME people who threw away her gospel so a woman wouldnt have a dominant place in christian mythos.
Jesus' personal views on how to treat others and the touting of love above all else, including personal safety, was way closer to Buhdism (although it hadnt been introduced to that region yet) than they ever were to Judeism. Hence my statement that he was a buhdist born into a jewish family.
The Bible; Great volume of stories to tell your kids, but not a book to be taken o litterally as to insist everyone follow it blindly.
(Heres where I get stoned as a heritic, let me get out my pitchers mask)
Xhar
P.S. Kick, please watch the whole thing, not just half... your statement just now really made you look a little worse than before. The second half is all about the proof behind the theory. Either that or dont comment on the video at all.
"God made man with two ears and one mouth, a pitty most people havent learned to use them in the same proportion."
Samuel Clemmens
Jesus' personal views on how to treat others and the touting of love above all else, including personal safety, was way closer to Buhdism (although it hadnt been introduced to that region yet) than they ever were to Judeism. Hence my statement that he was a buhdist born into a jewish family.
The Bible; Great volume of stories to tell your kids, but not a book to be taken o litterally as to insist everyone follow it blindly.
(Heres where I get stoned as a heritic, let me get out my pitchers mask)
Xhar
P.S. Kick, please watch the whole thing, not just half... your statement just now really made you look a little worse than before. The second half is all about the proof behind the theory. Either that or dont comment on the video at all.
"God made man with two ears and one mouth, a pitty most people havent learned to use them in the same proportion."
Samuel Clemmens
F
frostydf2
Guest
Liberls always come in certain views.
Hey why don't you go look up the price of a hydrogen powered car, and then get back to me on if it is consumer friendly k?
House, or energy effecient vehicle? You decide.
Hey why don't you go look up the price of a hydrogen powered car, and then get back to me on if it is consumer friendly k?
House, or energy effecient vehicle? You decide.
Just FYI, I am a libertarian, not a liberal. If you dont know the difference, then there is no reason to continue the conversation.
But again, you go back to the sticker shock argument. New tech allways costs more, no matter how much people complain about it.
I say its worth it, others dont
Xhar
>edited for spelling<
But again, you go back to the sticker shock argument. New tech allways costs more, no matter how much people complain about it.
I say its worth it, others dont
Xhar
>edited for spelling<
HJ-Diviana
Cadet
Everyone always says liberal like it's a bad thing.
lib·er·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
Anyway. Of course Hydrogen powered vehicles are expensive. If they were made by everyone, they wouldn't be. Why don't they make cars that don't break (and yes, they can)? Oh, maybe because they know people will pay for it.
I never said they were consumer friendly. The BMW model is just a prototype. There is also this really cool motorcycle by some small company (I forget who).
I don't get the house or vehicle thing. I'm assuming if you get one you can't afford a house?
Pfft! I'll build myself an earthship with free tires and soda cans and dirt! So there! (Besides they're absolutely gorgeous, and extremely good for the environment too)
You are referring to the hybrid car. I, my friend, am referring to the ELECTRIC CAR.Originally posted by frostydf2@May 5 2006, 05:07 AM
On first note, I did watch the movie
So you're saying you'll SAVE money by purchasing an eletric car? WRONG!!! You couldn't be more wrong then ever, in fact it will end up costing you more money in the long run, how, and why?
Lets say you get 60mpg in your new hybrid car. Now lets assume that you only get 30mpg, but you only pay $1.40 at the gas pump. Easy isn't it? Half the mpg, half the price of gas. Makes things simple. Now lets say you buy a small Honda. You get 35mpg, and you pay $2.80 a gallon. Still with me?
Next, we're going to start off the initial costs. On average a hybrid car will cost you $6,500 more then a regular gas car. So you say, "BUT WAIT!!! I'm still only paying half at the pump! So in the long run I'll save money, and the enviorment!" You are wrong again, so let me continue.
Ever 2-3 years you must replace the battery inside of a hybrid vehicle. That will run you around $1.2k ~ $3k. So lets give you the benefit of the doubt, you are the lucky one. Your battery lasts you 3 years, and you only have to pay $1.5k to replace it. Thats $500 a year just for a battery. Now lets do some simple calculations....
You could get 178 gallons of gas rounded down a year EXTRA just from staying to purely gas vehicle. That in itself is 6,250 miles for the gas run honda we were speaking of earlier. PLUS. That's giving you the benefit of the doubt as well. What if it only lasted 2 years, and you had to pay $3k?
So, some of you may see where I am going. However, I'll still continue for those who want to persist on argueing the situation. You had to pay an EXTRA $6,000 at the start right? Well an average consumer will keep a vehicle for 5 years. So you figure you are paying another extra $1.2K a year for that hybrid car. EXTRA. So from staying to a pure honda gasoline vehicle you will get an extra 428 gallons of gasoline rounding down again. Multiply that by 35, thats an extra 15,000 miles you gain.
Lets format this really quick
15,000
+ 6,250
----------
21,250 extra miles you gain by just staying gasoline. That's not even counting how fast your electric car is going to depreciate next to that honda you could have purchased.
Do you really save money? No. So for the average consumer, the answer is hybrid ISN'T FOR YOU!!!
Americas economy is built upon oil. The ENTIRE economy. Imagine a day without Mexicans? Yea right! Imagine a day without gasoline, or oil. You don't think thats worth fighting for?
I don't see why you wouldn't want to.
One last thing. I find it humerous that every major tragedy in the United States can't be blamed on other countries. It's as if the United States is a horrible country that needs to kill itself to get the point accross. Pearl Harbor, Vietnam, 9/11, Illegal Immigrants. In every event, the United States has to take the blame for something that happend.
CBC news article
In the article above, a man converted his car into a electric car. It costs him $15 a month to run the car and by doing it himself, the car cost $20,000. For that he gets 10 years of driving before replacing the batteries.
The big car companies are still making gasoline powered cars and not electric cars because there are hundreds of moving parts that need maintenance on a gasoline motor, but only one moving part on a electric motor.
Why would anyone want a cheap, quiet, non-polluting car... I mean, that's just smart... and honestly, why wants to be that these days.
Xblood
Cadet
damn all i was going to say is... to make anything sound right in the bible links jesus to a alien.... just think about it... he says his kingdom is not of this world... earth is a world... mars is a world.. satarn is a world... and why do we always look up into the heavens? stars are up there other worlds are up there... and it says where waiting for the return.. well i may sound crazy but just think outside of the box.... think about the events and things in the bible and then think about aliens... but i have a little quiz this is for people who get alll lost in religion...
was adam and eve the first humans on the world? this is so easy no cheating... for a fact... a lot of people get this question wrong lol thats kinda a hint too.. but yeah
was adam and eve the first humans on the world? this is so easy no cheating... for a fact... a lot of people get this question wrong lol
thats kinda a hint too.. but yeahYES! Lets TOTALLY go there Xblood! Christ was an alien, The missing link is missing because it never existed, and adam and eve WERE the first 2 (homo sapiens) on earth, because humans were geneticly engineered by the aliens from an existing homonid indigenous to terra, splicing it with the alien DNA!
Doesnt the bible say man was created in gods image?
lol yes, I am only half serious, but damn, someone please explain the geoforms in central and south america?
Xhar
Doesnt the bible say man was created in gods image?
lol yes, I am only half serious, but damn, someone please explain the geoforms in central and south america?
Xhar
Xblood
Cadet
i 2 do belive in evalution.. but adam and eve were not the first people on earth acording to the bible.. its all on page 1.. adam and eve where the first in the garden of edan w/e the name is lol.. but see its a funny theroy about the aleins but if you think about it it could be true
I usually don't get involved in political discussions, because, well...usually they just break down into a heated name calling match. But, I'm going to throw out a few things to think about and chew on. Take what you will from them.
Basically, if you look at the situation nowadays, the US and the world has changed. Funny how one day can change everything. Before 9/11, there was a comfort zone. Sure, there were problems in the US; offshoring of American jobs was becoming a problem, the economy was a bit shakey. But looking back...everything was not so bad.
After 9/11, it was like a great gate was opened, and a wave of fear, mistrust and hatred washed over everyone. The US was attacked, and there needed to be a target to retaliate against. You know, 9/11 is one of those days that I will NEVER forget. I remember vividly hearing about the two planes from co-workers. I remember seeing replays on the TV at work, and several people around me crying. I remember hearing the plane hit the Pentagon, and the one in Pennsylvania. But here is the truly odd part.....later that night, while watching the news, we got information about attacks in Afghanistan. AFGHANISTAN? I thought. Why the hell is Afghanistan being brought up during this? There's been trouble and battles going on between the Taliban and the Northern tribes for years, this is such-non news, it's funny. I remember thinking "Oh, this has to be a set up of some sort." Sure enought, within months, Afghanistan was the target of a US Invasion. Fear and the need to strike back at the terrorists drove us to react against the country.
People are willing to do, or give up a lot of things when in fear. They want to be assured that they can be kept safe. They want their government to protect them. And, over the past few years, we've allowed a whole lot to happen in return for that "protection". I don't have to go into all the details; the illegal wiretapping, illegal detentions and torture, and so much more. Needless to say, that the average US citizen has given up alot for the sense of security.
The truly saddest part is that Americans are distrustful and fearful of eachother....those with disimilar beliefs. Anyone thinking or believing differently MUST be the enemy, right? They must be disproven....they must be made to look wrong. Fear drives people to do crazy things. And these past few years, there have been many crazy things done and allowed.
In essence, fear is just a tool used by those that want wealth or power. Keep the masses fearful, and you will keep the masses controlled. And a controlled population won't object when their rights are taken away, all for the promise of protection against the "boogey man".
I believe that we're in the Middle East for one reason....to maintain control over the vast oil reserves in that region. Afghanistan, Iraq, and next Iran. If the US were so truly worried about an Axis of Evil country having a nuclear weapon, they would have acted immediately on North Korea when they announced they had several nuclear warheads.
I have watch the video, mentioned at the beginning of this topic, and yes, it does bring up MANY good questions, and bring to light MANY falicies and questionable items in the whole 9/11 story. Should 9/11 be investigated further? I believe it should. There are just too many points brought up that need to be either disproved or proven. Will investigating 9/11 change things? Probably not. The US has already walked the path it is on, and finding the truth will not undo those steps.
In closing, no matter what your opinion on the matter, and no matter what your political bearing is, we should all agree on one thing....we cannot allow fear to drive us or control us, or split us apart. Beyond the fear is the truth, and that is what we should strive for....no matter where it takes us.
Basically, if you look at the situation nowadays, the US and the world has changed. Funny how one day can change everything. Before 9/11, there was a comfort zone. Sure, there were problems in the US; offshoring of American jobs was becoming a problem, the economy was a bit shakey. But looking back...everything was not so bad.
After 9/11, it was like a great gate was opened, and a wave of fear, mistrust and hatred washed over everyone. The US was attacked, and there needed to be a target to retaliate against. You know, 9/11 is one of those days that I will NEVER forget. I remember vividly hearing about the two planes from co-workers. I remember seeing replays on the TV at work, and several people around me crying. I remember hearing the plane hit the Pentagon, and the one in Pennsylvania. But here is the truly odd part.....later that night, while watching the news, we got information about attacks in Afghanistan. AFGHANISTAN? I thought. Why the hell is Afghanistan being brought up during this? There's been trouble and battles going on between the Taliban and the Northern tribes for years, this is such-non news, it's funny. I remember thinking "Oh, this has to be a set up of some sort." Sure enought, within months, Afghanistan was the target of a US Invasion. Fear and the need to strike back at the terrorists drove us to react against the country.
People are willing to do, or give up a lot of things when in fear. They want to be assured that they can be kept safe. They want their government to protect them. And, over the past few years, we've allowed a whole lot to happen in return for that "protection". I don't have to go into all the details; the illegal wiretapping, illegal detentions and torture, and so much more. Needless to say, that the average US citizen has given up alot for the sense of security.
The truly saddest part is that Americans are distrustful and fearful of eachother....those with disimilar beliefs. Anyone thinking or believing differently MUST be the enemy, right? They must be disproven....they must be made to look wrong. Fear drives people to do crazy things. And these past few years, there have been many crazy things done and allowed.
In essence, fear is just a tool used by those that want wealth or power. Keep the masses fearful, and you will keep the masses controlled. And a controlled population won't object when their rights are taken away, all for the promise of protection against the "boogey man".
I believe that we're in the Middle East for one reason....to maintain control over the vast oil reserves in that region. Afghanistan, Iraq, and next Iran. If the US were so truly worried about an Axis of Evil country having a nuclear weapon, they would have acted immediately on North Korea when they announced they had several nuclear warheads.
I have watch the video, mentioned at the beginning of this topic, and yes, it does bring up MANY good questions, and bring to light MANY falicies and questionable items in the whole 9/11 story. Should 9/11 be investigated further? I believe it should. There are just too many points brought up that need to be either disproved or proven. Will investigating 9/11 change things? Probably not. The US has already walked the path it is on, and finding the truth will not undo those steps.
In closing, no matter what your opinion on the matter, and no matter what your political bearing is, we should all agree on one thing....we cannot allow fear to drive us or control us, or split us apart. Beyond the fear is the truth, and that is what we should strive for....no matter where it takes us.
T
tasoli
Guest
Sad truth.
