Something's missing.....[S4 spoilers] [merged]

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aliasroks

Cadet
Don't get me wrong, it's still a great show. I prefer it to the "Law and CSI Order" franchises that are on now. But where is the REAL intrigue of Seasons 1&2. Even Season three, which everyone seems to complain about, had some genuine thrills....I mean even though no one liked Lauren, at least when she was revealed as evil there were a few good double-agent episodes in there. (The BEST episode of season 3 in my opinion was the one with Ricky Gervais as the terrorist they tried to make believe they were the covenant. THAT was sheer brilliance.) But seriously folks, overall the show got off track someplace.....

There's no feelings of real danger. There's no urgency. We always know that Syd's gonna make it (obviously), Jack is going to do underhanded things but all for the sake of his daughter's well being. Sloane is fickle (I'm good! I'm evil! I'm good! I'm evil!). Vaughn will brood a little in every episode. Predictable! All the characters are "in on the secret," not like Season One/Two when we were afraid SD-6 would find out about Sydney's double agency. Or Will/Francie would learn her secret. Everyone knows Syd works for the CIA now. Covert-Ops or not, who does she have in her life to hide it from now? The name "ALIAS" doesn't have nearly the layers of application it once had. Now ALL the main cast members are good guys and have no double lives to lead.

JJ needs to shake things up. As much as it pains me to say it, KILL OFF A MAIN CHARACTER. And not offscreen like the weak Irina storyline. (I'm sorry but that was so made up at the last minute. There is NO way that's what those documents from the S3 finale were about!) SURPRISE us. SHOCK us. Make us FEEL IT. In the first season of 24 (I haven't watched since then) they threw us for a loop when Nina went bad and killed off Jack's wife. DO SOMETHING SIMILAR ON ALIAS. Then Syd would have to deal with the aftershocks of that. Nothing else can be done to hurt Syd. She's been through everything else.

Or better yet, do something where Sydney goes evil....for a while. I have contended that what should have happened in Season Three, was that they should have had the Covenant SUCCESSFULLY brainwash Sydney and she could have been working for the Covenant for real all season. That would have been awesome...then the Season finale could have been her finally getting captured. And then of course, her memories could be restored and everything back to normal. (is anything ever normal on Alias?)

I hope they drop some bombshells on us soon, because even though I am still a fan and will watch till Alias films it's final frame, I'm not quite as invested in the story as I once was.
 
I've been slinging around posts and PMs about this today. I agree that there needs to be a constant overhanging threat, but that's not all that's missing. There's also a sophistication to the development and delivery of... everything... that the show no longer has that it especially had in S1 and to a degree in S2. Real life science and recent scientific advancements/discoveries were used as the backbone of the show's pseudoscience, real world events were used as a narrative backdrop for mission objectives and locations, Marshall wasn't a chimp (or Gungan if you prefer), etc.

Oh, and the first person that says anything to the affect of "if you dont like the show, dont watch it" and means it loses at life (as well as completely doesn't understand a loyal, yet critical audience). =]
 
aliasroks said:
KILL OFF A MAIN CHARACTER.  And not offscreen like the weak Irina storyline.  (I'm sorry but that was so made up at the last minute. 
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Aw, c'mon, you know they were stuck with that and they had to do something with Irina. If they'd known they weren't going to have her, they could have had her die at the end of season 2, but she didn't give them any warning, did she? It was awkward, yes, but it was going to be awkward no matter how they handled it. What would you have done?

Meanwhile, I have no objection to shaking things up, but not simply to shake things up. That is, saying "I think we need to shake things up. Why don't we kill off X?" is not necessarily a good idea by itself. A better idea is to come up with a dramatic storyline, then discover that this inevitably involves the killing off of X. In one case you say, "What hit me?", enjoy it as an exhilarating rollercoaster ride, and forget it; the other, you remember for a long, long time. ;)
 
Totally agree. The Irina situation was an almost impossible one to write themselves out of. I think over S3 they did a good job in regards to her (at least they didn't just ignore her) and now in S4 they've taken the only action they can by the looks of things. And as for killing off a character to give the show a boost, it just wouldn't work if someone like Dixon, for instance, was just topped for the hell of it. How cheated would we all feel?. This isn't the way for Alias to regain the glory years of S1/S2. For me, the way to do that is to have three key ingredients:
Sloane/Jack working together like in SD-6; Syd/Dixon partnership on missions; and creating the social dynamic Syd had with Will/Francie, which can be done now with Nadia/Weiss, even Will briefly if he comes back. All of these are happening in S4. Now sit back and watch the show fly!... (y)
 
i totally agree everything u said aliasroks. i think ur a mind reader because i have been thinking that same thing! the brainwashing thing was a great idea. if they had her bad, that would of brought some life (and also new viewers) into the show. it would of made s3 A LOT better. i really agree with the whole irina thing. killing a character off screen and one who everyone knew wasn't coming back anyway, was not strong enough to deal with the immense tension left by the s3 cliffhanger. we all knew they had to kill her off. way to predictable

i would love for them to go back to the basics of s1. the double life thing was cool. syd having to keep the CIA thing secret was cool. evn the whole dance between syd and vaughn was ok.i liked it when not everyone was in on something and that we couldn't tell if they would be put in the light.i loved sydney in actual cloths and not just underwear. and i loved when she was continuously being saved in situations that are easier than the ones she was in before. i want that back.
 
With you sarklover about getting the S1 vibe back. In my humble opinion, they shut down SD-6, got rid of Will & even killed off Francie just a little bitty too early in the show's run. Still, the APO's got more of a double-agenty feel going on than the Rotunda did.

But keep Syd in her underwear. That's good... :D
 
I know what you mean about S4. It just feels different. I'm not saying that's a bad thing though. There doesn't seem to be an overarching storyline that we're dealing with. In S1, there was being a double agent, working to bring down SD-6, keeping her job a secret. In S2, there was bring down Sd-6/Sloane, trying to figure out if Irina was going to betray them, the Francie double. In S3, it was evil Lauren, working to bring down the Covenant. There's nothing like that in S4. It's just a bunch of stand alone episodes. There's a bit of an undercurrent of something though. In Liberty Village, you got the impression that Jack and Sloane have a secret and I'm sure we'll find out what that is. Nadia will probably find out what Jack did (although I still believe that Irina isn't really dead) and we'll have to deal with that. I miss Sark. I miss Will. I'm glad they're coming back. At least when Sark was around, there was a enemy to go after.

Furthermore, it's totally unrealistic that Sloane would be in charge. I thought that whole concept was weak and a tiny bit laughable, but I love the show so I'll let it slide.
 
MissingSark said:
There doesn't seem to be an overarching storyline that we're dealing with. 
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And the questions:

Why would Irina order a hit on Sydney? Is it the way it's being presented, or is the truth something else?
Who is that baby, anyway?
Why are they (the Russians and Sloane/Jack) looking for Elena? And what is that timetable about?
Is Sentinel Elena or someone else?

We're supposed to ignore all those? ^_^
 
Personally, I'm glad that the Alias writers have the guts to try new things. Think how boring it would be if Syd still worked for SD-6 and Francie and Will were still her clueless friends. It's good that they come up with new stuff before we get sick of the old. That way we can look back and say, "I miss S1" instead of still being stuck in S1. And I agree that there are lots of story arcs coming up that will bring back the "old feeling."
 
Bit of an incorrect overgeneralization of what people seem to be wanting, there. It's not "omfgjustlikeS1yay!!!!!" that folks want, it's the quality and depth of Season 1. It's been missing. From the late half of S2, the Alias world was simplified to be 'accessible' for... ehh... simple people(?)... leaving those of us who loved the complexity and layering of the story sitting back wondering where the driving talent (as well as JJ's manhood ability to stand up to network numbskulls for the quality of his show) went.
 
Vesh said:
Bit of an incorrect overgeneralization of what people seem to be wanting, there. It's not "omfgjustlikeS1yay!!!!!" that folks want, it's the quality and depth of Season 1. It's been missing. From the late half of S2, the Alias world was simplified to be 'accessible' for... ehh... simple people(?)... leaving those of us who loved the complexity and layering of the story sitting back wondering where the driving talent (as well as JJ's manhood ability to stand up to network numbskulls for the quality of his show) went.
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But what would you call the mystery of why Irina wanted Syd dead? The hints at the third Derevko? The plotting of Sloane and Jack? Peope were getting sick of Rambaldi, so they're making S4 is complex in new ways. I think it's too soon to judge anyway/ It's only the 5th ep after all.
 
ms.katejones said:
But what would you call the mystery of why Irina wanted Syd dead? The hints at the third Derevko? The plotting of Sloane and Jack? Peope were getting sick of Rambaldi, so they're making S4 is complex in new ways. I think it's too soon to judge anyway/ It's only the 5th ep after all.
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Definately agree with the fact S4 is growing complex in new ways, but ultimately it all leads back to Rambaldi. It's the mythology of the show, at the heart of the lives of almost all the characters, especially Syd. They're just not overloading it at the beginning, that's all.

And think back to both S2 & S3. In S2, in the first 15 episodes, Rambaldi was only mentioned a handful of times, if that. He came into prominence at the end. It was similiar in S3. The first nine or ten episodes were all about setting up the Covenant & the Lazarey murder, barely any Rambaldi. But they kept the over-arching storylines present.

Where S3
 
ms.katejones said:
But what would you call the mystery of why Irina wanted Syd dead? The hints at the third Derevko? The plotting of Sloane and Jack? Peope were getting sick of Rambaldi, so they're making S4 is complex in new ways. I think it's too soon to judge anyway/ It's only the 5th ep after all.
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Definately agree with the fact S4 is growing complex in new ways, but ultimately it all leads back to Rambaldi. It's the mythology of the show, at the heart of the lives of almost all the characters, especially Syd. They're just not overloading it at the beginning, that's all.

And think back to both S2 & S3. In S2, in the first 15 episodes, Rambaldi was only mentioned a handful of times, if that. He came into prominence at the end. It was similiar in S3. The first nine or ten episodes were all about setting up the Covenant & the Lazarey murder, barely any Rambaldi. But they kept the over-arching storylines present.

Where S3 went wrong is that the writers overloaded us with Rambaldi at the end & kept the 'Passenger' arc going far too long with little explanation or comeback until Nadia was found. The problem with Alias recently has not been as huge as some make out, but the problem was not Rambaldi at all, not even Irina's continued absence.

As we all know, the problem was Lauren. Which is now sorted. She's gone. S4 is when the show gets back on form. Trust me... (y)
 
Who is that baby, anyway?
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You know what would be weird...is if it is a brother Syd and Nadia didn't know about, and it turned out that he was fathered by Vaughn's dad. Then Syd and Vaughn would share a sibling! Of course that would make Irina quite the tramp...


It's after the super bowl....i'm so drunk. lol
 
aliasroks said:
You know what would be weird...is if it is a brother Syd and Nadia didn't know about, and it turned out that he was fathered by Vaughn's dad.
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Why so many people want to matchmake Irina with Vaughn's unseen dad . . . ? <_<

One word: yech. :o_O:
 
Sure the season is new, and things might pick up. I really hope they do. But as it stands right now I couldn't agree with "aliasroks" first statement more. Season four has been hinting at the on going sub plots, but it just isn't the same as the last three seasons. Where those sub plots created a lot of urgency. They took a larger time share on the show, and seemed to matter more to the actors. Ever since season four started there hasn't been a recap in the beginning of the show yet. Remember those? "Previously on Alias...". I think they are no longer needed because all major issues are concluded at the end of the show, and the little hints at on going plots aren't that important, yet will still be picked up by the diehards. All the first three seasons had an evil force, which took many episodes to remove. The covenant and Sark, and the conflict with Luaren in s3. Sd-6 and Slone in S2. SD-6 and dealing with hiding what she does, from most of the people in her life in S1. On top of these major, exciting, on going struggles they still gave us more than they are in S4. The introduced her mom, her books, rambaldie, her sister, the death of her friends, Will finding out what she does, Sloane’s wife and her cancer, and the list keeps going.

If they need to restructure the cast, to make things interesting again. I'd be all for it. Bring on some new permanent cast, and maybe kill off some of the existing ones. The only person they can't get rid of would be Syd. That would be like killing Bond in James Bond, it just can't happen. Unless they want to end the show. *thinks that might not be bad way to end the show*. The only person I'd really miss is Marshall. With out him the show would take itself to seriously.

I enjoy the show, and plan on watching it till it's end. Like, it has already been said by others, I don't want to see a repeat of season 1. I just want the complex drama back. Something different, that brings me the same amount of excitement. They managed to do it for three seasons in a row, So I remain optimistic, and hopeful, that season four will pick up soon.
 
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