Super Tuesday
- Thread starter Aen
- Start date
Aen
Cadet
that is understandable. a very valid excuse and a reason we need more then a 2 party system.
Gate
Cadet
The US constitution is the oldest, still working, foundation for a government in the world today. Every other Democracy is either younger or has gone through one or more complete changes to theirs since their inception. And every non-Democracy has gone through more extreme political changes still. To say that the American system of government is broken... indicates what exactly for the rest of the world?
America makes alot of mistakes and missteps, it abuses power, doesn't properly handle many (or even possibly most) situations as it "should." But let's face it, like Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
The US's system was not originally designed to be a 2 party system, that evolved later. However, it's overall design has let it keep working roughly as intended, with not a single interuption in service (aka no coups no, shutdowns- and I don't mean that budget issue we had the other year I mean a real shutdown-) That's saying something given how many internal and external wars, depresssions, and social revolutions it has been through. For all the faults it has, the US political system survives because it works. It's not fast to change or adapt, it makes lots of mistakes, and it can be manipulated, but the same can be said for a whole lot of other goverments out there *cough-all-of-them-cough* only without so much stability. More parties introduce instability, they force coalitions in government which can lead to shutdowns and standoffs that can become crippling.
Meanwhile the US two party system (which is not legislated in any way, just "encouraged" (it could change, just no parties have manage to rise to challenge it)) is stagnant in many ways but is extremely stable and reliable. What's best? That question must be answered entirely based on your personal experiences and views of the world.
America makes alot of mistakes and missteps, it abuses power, doesn't properly handle many (or even possibly most) situations as it "should." But let's face it, like Winston Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
The US's system was not originally designed to be a 2 party system, that evolved later. However, it's overall design has let it keep working roughly as intended, with not a single interuption in service (aka no coups no, shutdowns- and I don't mean that budget issue we had the other year I mean a real shutdown-) That's saying something given how many internal and external wars, depresssions, and social revolutions it has been through. For all the faults it has, the US political system survives because it works. It's not fast to change or adapt, it makes lots of mistakes, and it can be manipulated, but the same can be said for a whole lot of other goverments out there *cough-all-of-them-cough* only without so much stability. More parties introduce instability, they force coalitions in government which can lead to shutdowns and standoffs that can become crippling.
Meanwhile the US two party system (which is not legislated in any way, just "encouraged" (it could change, just no parties have manage to rise to challenge it)) is stagnant in many ways but is extremely stable and reliable. What's best? That question must be answered entirely based on your personal experiences and views of the world.
I don't want to get into a too politically incorrect Discussion, so i'll only say one Thing.
Germany has a ludicrously complicated Body of Laws, that still has massive Failings. I'm pretty sure it's no different in the USA. So, instead of a complicated System that sucks, make a simple one that sucks. Then the Politicians can carry on doing their petty, inconsequential Rubbish, for all i care. The redemptory Catastrophe will come anyway...
Germany has a ludicrously complicated Body of Laws, that still has massive Failings. I'm pretty sure it's no different in the USA. So, instead of a complicated System that sucks, make a simple one that sucks. Then the Politicians can carry on doing their petty, inconsequential Rubbish, for all i care. The redemptory Catastrophe will come anyway...
Gate
Cadet
I think someone needs a lesson on how democracy works... The government isn't an entity. It's composed of many people all with their own agendas and constituencies. "The Government" only exists in dictatorships and similar forms of government. Democratic governments can't agree on the weather much less on something as important as who should be president.
Now if you want to know who -really- controls the power in our country, I'll let you in on the little secret. It's called "the press."
He who controls the information, controls the society. Perfect example: Ron Paul got more votes in many of the elections than Fred Thompson did, yet he almost never appeared in the poll standings and Thomson, sometimes with only 5% to Paul's 14% was always in the rankings. Why? Media filtering.
Now if you want to know who -really- controls the power in our country, I'll let you in on the little secret. It's called "the press."
He who controls the information, controls the society. Perfect example: Ron Paul got more votes in many of the elections than Fred Thompson did, yet he almost never appeared in the poll standings and Thomson, sometimes with only 5% to Paul's 14% was always in the rankings. Why? Media filtering.
Hey, I'm not saying what is or isn't. I'm just stating my non-evidenced opinion. And while the government is not a single entity, I do believe there are those within that have the power to change things and would rather not leave things up to chance. And I think the media is a complete lie meant to keep conspiracy theorists chasing ghosts. And yes, I suppose that is hypocritical of me to say seeing as my theory on voting would in fact make me a conspiracy theorist.
But, I wil admit that my theory has absolutely no evidence to support it and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here. I just think that there's a group of people within the government, with assloads of money, that have the power and financial recources to pay off whoever needs to be paid off and change things at will.
But, I wil admit that my theory has absolutely no evidence to support it and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here. I just think that there's a group of people within the government, with assloads of money, that have the power and financial recources to pay off whoever needs to be paid off and change things at will.
Gate
Cadet
Daax, I appreciate that you come out and admit that your opinion is just that. I really applaud that. Far too many people now-a-days think their opinion always = reality and won't admit otherwise.
Also, you aren't wrong when you say there are people -in- the government with massive amounts of money and power to throw around. Look at the Bush dynasty. The Bush family has for decades been placing their family members in key places around the country, most notably and recently a pair of presidents and/or governors. Also, consider the fact that if Clinton wins this election (I'm voting for Obama but Clinton wouldn't be horrible either), the 6 most recent presidential terms will go Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Clinton. Dynasties are real even in democracies.
As far as power/money influencing elections goes, consider the real tragedy of the 2000 election. While the media had everyone focused on Florida's hanging chads, the much larger problem that went largely unnoticed was the fact that many black voters (and some whites, but mostly democratic leaning blacks) were prevented from voting because of incorrect records. The records were managed by a company in Texas, and the fraud was perpetrated in Florida... the two very states run by the Bush brothers. Fraud and election rigging are very real, both amongst the Democrats and Republicans (though of late, the Reps seem to be perfecting some techniques... I imagine the Dems won't be far behind in playing catch-up). Let us hope that they never become systemic like you are talking about. If they remain fragmented amongst the warring factions, at least they somewhat work against each other.
Also, you aren't wrong when you say there are people -in- the government with massive amounts of money and power to throw around. Look at the Bush dynasty. The Bush family has for decades been placing their family members in key places around the country, most notably and recently a pair of presidents and/or governors. Also, consider the fact that if Clinton wins this election (I'm voting for Obama but Clinton wouldn't be horrible either), the 6 most recent presidential terms will go Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Clinton. Dynasties are real even in democracies.
As far as power/money influencing elections goes, consider the real tragedy of the 2000 election. While the media had everyone focused on Florida's hanging chads, the much larger problem that went largely unnoticed was the fact that many black voters (and some whites, but mostly democratic leaning blacks) were prevented from voting because of incorrect records. The records were managed by a company in Texas, and the fraud was perpetrated in Florida... the two very states run by the Bush brothers. Fraud and election rigging are very real, both amongst the Democrats and Republicans (though of late, the Reps seem to be perfecting some techniques... I imagine the Dems won't be far behind in playing catch-up). Let us hope that they never become systemic like you are talking about. If they remain fragmented amongst the warring factions, at least they somewhat work against each other.
Sherri_CinVin
Cadet
I find it interesting how the American voting system works so different than ours, I watch CNN all the time 
After all it does matter to us up here in the North who get to be President
After all it does matter to us up here in the North who get to be President
