The #1 Misconception About HJ Is...

[blur]

... well, what do YOU think it is?

Personally, I think it's the way we have people arrive every month, thinking HJ is going to be this amazing transition between Simu's existing games and the world of MMOs. Oh there'll be tiered servers, they cry. And we'll have these really amazing, niche RP communities! It will be fantastic.

Well, bzzzzzzzzzzzzt, I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but the Hero Engine is shaping up to me a very mainstream kind of MMO-building tool. As such, I doubt the game being built on it is going to be as revolutionary as people think. Further, I don't see Simu wanting to debut into the world of MMOs by making the game so niche and similar to its existing products that it's only working off its current user base (which is small), to be its main subscribers. No sir, this game is aiming commercial in a rather large way.

And I think a lot of existing Simu customers and/or hardcore roleplayers are going to be in for a mighty shock when the game goes into beta testing as they get a feel for what it will be like.

Anyway, that's my #1 misconception. What's yours? =D=

 

[Thaos Nightwind]

Thaos rambles again:~o)

Sounds to me as if you're saying that Simu and HE can do nothing more than fall into existing gaming patterns with everything being simply a renaming of said patterns HJ style??? That *is exactly* the pattern of the genre isn't it? Its from that POV that the 'Expectations' that lead to 'Misconceptions' has it's origins.

I think the number one misconception about HJ is that there won't be anything new to accomodate the sorely neglected RP aspect of gaming.

Which is something I think the vast majority of the gaming populus has been trained away from to the point that's it's no longer looked for when assesing the potentials of a game.

'Misconceptions' would *seem* to come from 'Expectations' - and as such - current gaming 'Expectations' seem to have been boiled down to visuals+machanics and who can restructure them to put the latest twist on them providing the fastest temporary thrill-ride. Then on to the next, rinse and repeat.

My subjectivity says that HJ is primarily a creative tool to accomodate 'Character' development through 'Story Telling' first, and an MMO second. So the 'misconception' is the one you've actually just made. That based on current non-RP friendly gaming mechanics there will be nothing new.

A definate truth for those so inclined. In my humble opinion HJ should be labeled an RPMMO. That would set the record and straight more properly align the already misaligned 'Expectations'.

 

[Tyrson]

In simplest terms, I have no major misconceptions about the game. Until the game is live, I do not hold the notion of failure over any game.

Let's take Lord of the Rings Online, for example. I was invited on the first wave of Beta 1 (Late August/Early September). Folks, most of you who like LotR Online now might have hated it at that point. There were no instruments of any kind and no plans to implement them. There was no ability to sit in chairs, and again, no plan to implement them (they said their engine was incapable of rendering it accurately). Beginner leather armor looked skin-tight. Hair did not look right on the head. Elves did not look at all graceful. All female types - Elves included - were off-kilter in their looks (masculine features, even a near-unibrow on a couple of the models!). Oh, and when you killed some wolves or lynxes, there were some heart-breaking death cries. >.< This was in addition to the bugs, misspellings, glitches, and incompletions that come with most every beta-stage program.

It took some work, and almost daily badgering from the beta community, but Turbine managed to pull out some impressive stops during the beta. In the end, they have a well-done MMO (granted there are some reasons why I won't be playing this game, but most can't be faulted on the mechanics). It's a far cry from what it used to be, though, and if I casted my judgement back in August/September of what I thought of the game, I would have said it was a major disappointment and doomed to monotonous failure.

Now. With all that being said, why would I harbor disappointment for a game that I haven't even tested yet? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If, after I've played it and seen it progress to live, find out that the game ended up not at all what I expected or wanted (i.e. Vanguard), then I'll express my said disappointment.



Sorry I kinda ranted there. Just my opinion, I suppose. In summary, though, I have no significant misconceptions about HJ at this time.

 

[Dyngo]

I guess its ok to rant... Good ol' Blur started a rant thread after all *grins*

I never really made a bad boring engine equal to good content. I guess you could have the best engine in the world and still add "Collect X rat-tails".

Im currently in a Zelda period and just finished WindWaker and in the middle(?) of Twilight Princess atm. And even though i like the design the game engine is pretty basic on both of them. Still I really like how they push it.

So my hope is that Simu still can preform a pretty good game, even though you can make the same old mainstream game with the engine. Not only because I have big espectations, but also to see Blur smile at the Hero's Journey again

...however, in the meantime you will see me in TCoS

 

[Thaos Nightwind]

...why would I harbor disappointment for a game that I haven't even tested yet? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If, after I've played it and seen it progress to live, find out that the game ended up not at all what I expected or wanted (i.e. Vanguard), then I'll express my said disappointment.

That sums it up rather well.

 

[HJ-Pinnelipe]

I'm not sure I know what "tiered" means and I believe in the role play just because, well.. Steph has made a few articles about it and this movie. Maybe it wont be true, but I'm once again being optimistic and believing the makers of the game.

My number one misconception... Well, I'm not really in a position to say anything is a misconception yet! You either believe the words of the developers or you don't. I suppose I do have something to say about games in general..

Making a game support roleplay will not ostracize it from the other communities, just like making a game support pvp wont do it also. Just provide a place where people are required to do it, and another place where people aren't and everyone will be happy. The only reason there is for a game not to fully support all play styles is time. Time is money, and if they're low on either they'll cut out a play style or two.

 

[Dyngo]

and this movie.

OMG *put fingers in ears*
The pinball-extra-ball-sound!?! I hope Simu change that sound in the retail game!! (when applying a Wyr on something)
Terrible!!


sorry.. OT

 

[blur]

Now. With all that being said, why would I harbor disappointment for a game that I haven't even tested yet? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If, after I've played it and seen it progress to live, find out that the game ended up not at all what I expected or wanted (i.e. Vanguard), then I'll express my said disappointment.

Who's harbouring disappointment? The game will be whatever the game will be. My point is that, even without seeing the game or knowing what it might evolve into, it's simple business logic that Simu isn't going to build an MMO version of its current games. This is a big investment, especially for an indie company, and they're not going to build a game that will only appeal to its current, tiny, base of users. That's just logic. And I would just about bet my house that there won't be an option to pay some ridiculous amount of money to play on a server where everyone acts super serious and conducts themselves in a format they believe is "roleplaying", akin to what they currently do with their text-based games. Yet these are the "selling points" that I see so many people talking about when they skip in here. I think it's a massive misperception.

While I have no doubt that the game will offer some fun little systems that will thrill people (something that every game does to some degree; thing of the deeds or traits systems in LotRO), I still don't think HJ will be revolutionary. Maybe it will be evolutionary? Yeah, maybe. But not revolutionary. I just don't see it happening in an economically viable sense.

I'm not sure I know what "tiered" means...

Tiered refers to the kinds of tiered pricing models that Simu currently offers in its games. The more you pay, theoretically, the more uptight, sorry, roleplaying-oriented people you get to play with. And it's funny that I am taking this stance, because I can RP with the best of them. My guild, whioch I helped build six years ago, is based on RP. I'm just not "over the top" with it, and I really abhor the concept of how Simu gouges people with its tiered pricing for text-based games that are, let's not mince words, pretty cheap to run, compared to a fully-fledged MMO. That concept REALLY annoys me.

 

[Luciro]

Misconception?
I'm going to just say this, HJ is turning out to be just like every other bit MMORPG coming out. It's not nearly as dynamic 'from current info' as I had first anticipated 2 years ago.
Could it still be a good game? Aye. It could. But I'm looking for more innovation.

 

[HJ-Pinnelipe]

I certainly wasn't expecting these tiered servers, and I believe even Aini was just thinking it would be neat if they existed. They do say they plan to have different server types, though, and all I would hope for is a little enforcing on the rules they state or having some other way of making it so people who do not want to roleplay will not be on a roleplay server. I mean..If you go to a pvp server in most games, but don't want to ever pvp, that wont be stopping people from killing you and you best not complain about it when you are killed. Just think of it as a GM should have a smiting stick that bumps the player being entirely ooc in a non-arguable manner to another server.

Blur, if you're going to place down things you state as people thinking facts, make sure they think that. A lot of the things on this forum are just starry-eyed suggestions. We can not know if it's truly "revolutionary" right now, but the systems they said in 2006 are still very high up near it. It would be bad logic to not try to be different, as being the same in something like the MMORPG genre, where people can normally only afford to play one of the sort, means that people MIGHT try it, but they'd ultimately go back to the game they played before where they have a lot more in game wealth, friends, and are "uber".

Now, I have not been watching this game for ten years so I can't say on if it has gotten overly simplified from the original versions. For the time I've watched it, it has maybe changed systems, but not necessarily simplified in any way. We had two of each race before and now don't..Alright, but now we have a system that lets us do halfbreeds through an entire spectrum. Still, I do believe it has been simplified from the original even though I can't find any exact information on it. Why? Because all games end up doing that. You will never find a game that didn't have some big plan that sounded so terribly neat and simple to the developers on paper, but ended up just not working.

 

[Dyngo]

This is a big investment, especially for an indie company, and they're not going to build a game that will only appeal to its current, tiny, base of users. That's just logic.

Well, we could perhaps add that Simus current games are textbased and that alone appeal only to a few. I don't think those games would scare off people if they would be in a graphical environment, probably the other way around...

...then again, I don't really know how revolutionary a game must be to actually become... eum.. revolutionary... If its fun enough to keep me a year, i'm happy and the current info seem to interest me enough to try. My biggest misconception was, however, that I though, two years ago, that I would be playing this game by now...

 

[HJ-Pinnelipe]

...then again, I don't really know how revolutionary a game must be to actually become... eum.. revolutionary... If its fun enough to keep me a year, i'm happy and the current info seem to interest me enough to try. My biggest misconception was, however, that I though, two years ago, that I would be playing this game by now...

Hehe, I think we can all agree with this.

 

[WatchMaker]

That sums it up rather well.

:whs:

 

[blur]

My biggest misconception was, however, that I though, two years ago, that I would be playing this game by now...

LOL, well there's that one as well...

And Luciro's quite right that the game is increasingly shaping up to me more and more like every other MMO, rather than what we have been led to believe over the years. That also answers one of your questions, Momma, with regard to whether the game has evolved during this development process.

To which I would say it has, but more in a de-volutionary kind of way. As more time goes by, more elements get stripped back, until as Luciro says, the game is just looking like every other MMO -- which isn't why many of us got interested in it.

I can still hardly believe, for example, that after years of Suwari screengrabs -- indeed, Suwari being one of the most publicised races in the game -- that they turned around and were like, "Uh, yeah, they need more work..." More work!!! More work??? Years and years of development and using them as the poster children of the game (come on, they are in so many screenies, it's not even funny), and then someone realises they aren't ready yet?

It might seem a small thing, compared to some other things, but that was one of the most telling incidents in the development of the game so far.

 

[Thaos Nightwind]

I'm sure it's been mentioned and referenced many times that HJ will attempt to accomodate more than one playstyle. As a result I don't think it's an 'either/or scenario as to which will be more prominant. The articles on HH's site attest to that as all manor of playstyles are addressed in one way or another.

One can site the size of HJ's RP community in DR and GS and come to the conclusion that they need or must go more mainstream - but - almost every game i've played has offered at least one dedicated RP server in recognition of that audience. So from the very small to the mega WoW even has one most games by far have one. So this is not a valid point.

Although it would seem some playstyles aren't compatible from the perspectives of personal points of view on the matter, both RP and traditional MMO features will co-exist in HJ to offer players the option.

 

[blur]

One can site the size of HJ's RP community in DR and GS and come to the conclusion that they need or must go more mainstream - but - almost every game i've played has offered at least one dedicated RP server in recognition of that audience. So from the very small to the mega WoW even has one most games by far have one. So this is not a valid point.

No, but do you think Simu will try charging $20 or $30 a month for the RP server? I don't -- even if they DO get away with it in the text games. That's the point I was making about RP servers, tiered pricing, etc.

 

[Thaos Nightwind]

No, but do you think Simu will try charging $20 or $30 a month for the RP server? I don't -- even if they DO get away with it in the text games. That's the point I was making about RP servers, tiered pricing, etc.

They just might. But if it's not anyone's particular cup of tea then...*shrug* who'd care?? Why would it be a care??

EQ2 has web and stat based additions to thier game one could pay extra for, i'm sure some people use it. Its not my cup of tea but its still there, still being offered etc.

It's not a matter of 'getting away' with anything, its still about providing options to a player base. I'm just a little confused as to how we look at the differences between... say a person driving a Geo Prism but then go poo-poo to the Caddy when they both are happily driving what they want??

You seem to be saying the auto manufacturer 'got away with something' for the Caddy driver?

 

[Vahsyl]

I think a post like this proves that someone loved the game enough to be "angry" they think it's not going to deliver what they thought.

My question, however, is what is it not delivering?

The only thing I see is the kitty race that's not being put into release. But... wouldn't you rather something be right than not exist at all? I know I would. I've seen something "grand" released before it's polished and ready...

Heck, one of the reasons Blizzard is SO successful is they release a polished product. They've even CHANGED set release dates because something is just not ready. That's something I've always admired about the company.

It just seems we have two camps on these boards. The "Wow HJ is so AWESOME!! I can't WAIT!!" and the "Yeah. We used to think that... you'll come around and see the truth one day..."

Both are opinions. Both are correct in the eye of the beholder. But I wonder... I always SEE the second view said but I never see anything mentioned to back up this claim. WHAT is so disappointing about the game? Really, I mean... they've released SUCH LITTLE hard and factual info so far... I just don't see how anything can be that disappointing. Honestly, the only thing I can agree might be disappointing for some people here is the wait.

 

[Gate]

I agree with you completely Vahsyl. My largest misconception (which parallels yours) is that one needs information to draw conclusions. To many, information seems to not be needed. How can a person complain with one breath that Simu is releasing next to no information, and then in the next breath complain that HJ is shaping up to be like ever single other game out there?
I'm not claiming that HJ will be the best thing since sliced bread, but I can't complain about it either because there simply is not enough information. And to be frank, enough great games have come out of the blue that I'm still optimistic about it. That isn't wrong is it? Optimism on a fan site?

 

[Vahsyl]

I agree with you completely Vahsyl. My largest misconception (which parallels yours) is that one needs information to draw conclusions. To many information seems to not be needed. How can a person complain with one breath that Simu is releasing next to no information, and then in the next breath complain that HJ is shaping up to be like ever single other game out there?
I'm not claiming that HJ will be the best thing since sliced bread, but I can't complain about it either because there simply is not enough information. And to be frank, enough great games have come out of the blue that I'm still optimistic about it. That isn't wrong is it? Optimism on a fan site?

LOL yeah... god forbid...

Don't get me wrong. I haven't been "devoted" to this game as long as some people who have been waiting for years and years and years. Maybe your patience has just worn thin... and frustration comes out. I can understand that.

But don't attack what you once loved just because it's taking too long. Especially don't attack it if you're just frustrated and don't really have any REASON to attack it because you don't really know any cold hard facts.

That's just a suggestion, because I think that will never get anyone anywhere.