The Dedication

[Thaos Nightwind]

"Over one million players have enjoyed Simutronics’ text-based games since 1987. We dedicate Hero’s Journey and our visions for the game to all of them." - About Hero's Journey

Well that's pretty special. Those of you who've played and play DR/GS - I assume you've watched those games grow over your time there? You've seen improvements with features, character abilities, user interface etc?

Seems to me that without your participation Simu couldn't have evolved those games to the point it has. And now, with HJ it's apparently for time for a whopper of a change eh?

I've heard the vague notion spoken that there may not be the same level of appreciation. That there was no way to bring a graphical mmorpg to the DR/GS style of play. Seems to me that they are two different things. Do you think that it may be possible to bring some of the features and aspects of DR/GS into the graphical enviroment?

I also think it a mistake to assume that fans of DR/GS won't be able to appreciate such an attempt because it seems to be based on the notion that those fans have never played an mmorpg before. Which just isn't true and seems an easy error to make if you've never played a text based game and are used to traditional mmo's.

Are the playstyle differences between graphical and text based two different things to you with each having their own special attractions and detractions?

Do you think that they can be blended?

Or do you think that HJ will simply be the standard 'mmo-ized' version of DR/GS unable to carry over any of the 'special-ness of the later?

I guess i'm interested to know what you DR/GS current and former players may be excited about, looking forward to, expecting etc if anything.

 

[Scaledfang]

Or do you think that HJ will simply be the standard 'mmo-ized' version of DR/GS unable to carry over any of the 'special-ness of the later?

For the most part, I think it'll be "mmo-ized" as you put it. Its going to mirror whats already out there (WoW, EQ2, VG, etc) with a few different bells and whistles..... The "specialness" that came from DR/GS is the community. Thats what that style of game is about. It will depend on what type of community forms when HJ is launched. If the people are mature, help each other out, and arent a bunch of asshats to each other, then there is a good chance it could become something. On the otherhand, if finding a group is a pita, or just not worth it (for exp reasons), if chat is cumbersome/clumsy, or if the game pulls more mainstream than anticipated, then the community could very well take a nosedive, and it'll be another EQ2... My hopes for the former, as i like the sound of the game so far, and if it lives up to my desires for character classes, then it'll likely be a keeper for me

 

[Llillith]

I have to agree with Scaledfang in that the uniqueness that was GS (didn't play DR much) will have a tough time translating into a graphical MMO.

After all, the graphical capability of the human mind (read imagination here) compared to that of even the leetest computer rig out there is like comparing a warp capable space ship to a pair of roller skates. Both will get you there, but the difference in the ride is.....wow!

I've been gaming online since the GEnie days of GS and have lost track of the number of MUDS, MUSHES, MOOS and graphical MMO's that I've played. And the biggest moments of my gaming memories all seem to revolve around GS.

Between the quality of the community and the rp, to the imagination and surprises of the GM's and other players, I don't see how a graphical MMO can even come close to duplicating that. After all, we as players could create anything! (ACT is your friend!) With a graphical MMO that is taken away. Would be silly typing in (EM smacks you across the face with a dead herring) if the dead herring wasn't in your hand. People would just ignore it because the dead herring wasn't visible therefore it didn't exist.

Grr, having a tough time trying to express what's going through my head. I guess I just have to sum it up by saying that I have yet to experience a graphical MMO that had the mystery and fun and roleplaying and the imagination and most of all the opportunity to create that GS had.

I don't think HJ will be able to do it either, simply because of the constraints that a graphical game puts on the human mind.

 

[Kuzzle]

I have to agree with Scaledfang in that the uniqueness that was GS (didn't play DR much) will have a tough time translating into a graphical MMO.

After all, the graphical capability of the human mind (read imagination here) compared to that of even the leetest computer rig out there is like comparing a warp capable space ship to a pair of roller skates. Both will get you there, but the difference in the ride is.....wow!

I've been gaming online since the GEnie days of GS and have lost track of the number of MUDS, MUSHES, MOOS and graphical MMO's that I've played. And the biggest moments of my gaming memories all seem to revolve around GS.

Between the quality of the community and the rp, to the imagination and surprises of the GM's and other players, I don't see how a graphical MMO can even come close to duplicating that. After all, we as players could create anything! (ACT is your friend!) With a graphical MMO that is taken away. Would be silly typing in (EM smacks you across the face with a dead herring) if the dead herring wasn't in your hand. People would just ignore it because the dead herring wasn't visible therefore it didn't exist.

Grr, having a tough time trying to express what's going through my head. I guess I just have to sum it up by saying that I have yet to experience a graphical MMO that had the mystery and fun and roleplaying and the imagination and most of all the opportunity to create that GS had.

I don't think HJ will be able to do it either, simply because of the constraints that a graphical game puts on the human mind.

I don't know about you, but I don't "see" things in my head very well. I "feel" them, though, which is why books are nice, but that doesn't translate quite so well to text-based games. Maybe because they seem so... robotic.

Anyway... Ooh! Pfft! Wah! Aw... Yeah, that pretty much sums that up for me. I "feel" things better when I have images that go along with those "feelings". Situational what's-it, 'n whatnot.

These "feelings", by the way, aren't actual emotion; They're just what allows me to sort of tie in and visualize the story, environment, and possible outcomes of both my actions, and the actions of the characters around me. Think of it as "Hypothetical Situational Awareness". Yeah, that's it... I like that.

 

[Thaos Nightwind]

After all, we as players could create anything!

You made me think:

With a graphical approach a significant part of the imaginative... that part that auto creates the pictures and surroundings of a circumstance is relatively gone. Because it's already been defined.

 

[Ainilome]

You'd be surprised what a large portion of DR/GS players have never played a graphical MMO or had any interest in them. The community that exists within MMOs where you meet someone and list off the games you've played doesn't exist in DR at all. (haven't played GS enough to speak of it) Most people I've run into have never played an graphical game and have never wished to. They label them as hack and slash, and as games that appeal to a person who lacks imagination. There's plenty who have played other games I'm sure but they seem to me to be the minority.

I found an amazing thing when I started played DR. I've been playing text games all along. Most MMOs that I've RPed in have had so very little direct interaction between character, characters and their environment or just useful emotes that a huge portion of the RPing I've done has ended up with a bunch of people standing around and just emoting in text because there's nothing we can do to illustrate our actions withing the actual viewable world. So we do it in text... which makes those pretty graphics more of a reference point than anything "That's what my character looks like. That's what his does. That's what the room looks like." then the rest of the action takes places in emotes. Two people sitting around a table in a bar and drinking? Well I can emote out the wazoo about my character getting tipsy, spilling her drink, falling over things or speaking uncomfortably close to the person next to her. But depending on the limits of the game I'm actually just sitting there and staring forward. Or hells, in some games I can't even -sit- at the table so I'm just standing there.

Is it possible to translate some of the customizablity and world interactions of DR/GS into a graphical game? It depends on what you mean. There are tens of thousands of items in DR (One trader I know of has an inventory of 40,000+ items). All those items are different, do special things, look unique etc. It's easy for the GMs to add items because they take only a handful of steps to make and most importantly I think they don't add to any sort of graphical lag. And example of what I mean, I remember in one game I played (Eve) they couldn't change the color of a commonly used item to differentiate them from another item with the same graphic because that very small change upped the overage lag by nearly 10%. (Blueprints, when people were begging them to make BPOs and BPCs different colors, for any who have played the game). Text games need not worry about that.

Example: Yesterday in the Empath guild someone set up a picnic. I'm not sure who does it but a few times a week someone goes out buys a picnic basket, fills it with food and drink and sets it out on the floor of main healing area. When you open the basket it shows you spreading out a cloth, setting the food up and setting the basket aside. That picnic then sits there where everyone can see, you need only look on the cloth to see what sorts of goodies are set out, grab yourself something and start munching. Can you imagine how taxing such a thing would be in your average graphical game?

No, I don't think they'll come close to reaching the interaction and customization ability of DR/GS. Because of the limits of current technology, in 10 years when we're all dealing with nanobites I'm sure it can happen I do however think they'll take a giant step towards that customization. Simu hasn't forgotten it's -roots-. Hasn't forgotten what it was that made text RPGs so fun to begin with, and that text games are the forefathers of the modern graphical MMO. Most game makers have long since forgotten that. And it's why I felt like I was taking a step forward, rather than back when I went from a mainstream graphical game to an old school text one. Because one is not simply an older, more archaic form of the other.

Someone needs to step out of the box, step away from this stagnating over populated genre that is "MMOs". Bring back the RPG damnit.

 

[HJ-Pinnelipe]

Someone needs to step out of the box, step away from this stagnating over populated genre that is "MMOs". Bring back the RPG damnit.

*sticks a "World's Best Motivational Speaker" sign on Ainilome's soap box*Woo hoo!

 

[Thaos Nightwind]

They label them as hack and slash, and as games that appeal to a person who lacks imagination. There's plenty who have played other games I'm sure but they seem to me to be the minority.

That surprises me actually. It fits, but still surprises me to some degree. I think it must've been interesting for Simu to work with the engineers while developing HJ. But having not played a text based game I just wonder what traditional MMO moments Simu pointed out saying a metaphorical 'Well don't just have the NPC stand there.' Then the engineer/designer looking at them goin' 'Well what else is she supposed to do?' LOL!! Awarkward moments in wonderland with plenty of those short little eye-to-eye silent spaces looking for a bridge.

I found an amazing thing when I started played DR. I've been playing text games all along. Most MMOs that I've RPed in have had so very little direct interaction between character, characters and their environment or just useful emotes that a huge portion of the RPing I've done has ended up with a bunch of people standing around and just emoting in text because there's nothing we can do to illustrate our actions withing the actual viewable world. So we do it in text... which makes those pretty graphics more of a reference point than anything "That's what my character looks like. That's what his does. That's what the room looks like." then the rest of the action takes places in emotes. Two people sitting around a table in a bar and drinking? Well I can emote out the wazoo about my character getting tipsy, spilling her drink, falling over things or speaking uncomfortably close to the person next to her. But depending on the limits of the game I'm actually just sitting there and staring forward. Or hells, in some games I can't even -sit- at the table so I'm just standing there.

I remember you pointing out the RP limitations of VG and I thought it painful. Which is also something that I loved about SWG, lots of character annimations to RP with. There were still times when you had to *fake it* but there were enough to have a good time with to be sure. I still love 'ROTFL' anni from that game. Yeah, it can be that simple of a thing.

Is it possible to translate some of the customizablity and world interactions of DR/GS into a graphical game? It depends on what you mean. There are tens of thousands of items in DR (One trader I know of has an inventory of 40,000+ items).

Is it me, or would it be funny to have some graphical MMO conditioned n00b run up to him and ask "Can I have yer stuff?" OK bad j/k

Honestly though I think your thoughts on the matter reveal the idea of transporting some aspects a moot point. The two gametypes are so uniquely different in that regard that some things cannot carry over directly. They're to intangible, elusive, and unique to the respective genre and community therein.

So the question then becomes ... oooo, I think i'll start yet another thread.

Example: Yesterday in the Empath guild someone set up a picnic. I'm not sure who does it but a few times a week someone goes out buys a picnic basket, fills it with food and drink and sets it out on the floor of main healing area. When you open the basket it shows you spreading out a cloth, setting the food up and setting the basket aside. That picnic then sits there where everyone can see, you need only look on the cloth to see what sorts of goodies are set out, grab yourself something and start munching. Can you imagine how taxing such a thing would be in your average graphical game?

Sounds great!! Was all there while reading you say that even. But you're correct about the lag it would add it to be sure.

...text games are the forefathers of the modern graphical MMO. Most game makers have long since forgotten that. And it's why I felt like I was taking a step forward, rather than back when I went from a mainstream graphical game to an old school text one. Because one is not simply an older, more archaic form of the other.

And then to consider that there is an entire generation of gamers that can't phathom a text based game.

Someone needs to step out of the box, step away from this stagnating over populated genre that is "MMOs". Bring back the RPG damnit.

*pulls out hanky and gently wipes froth from corner of Aini's lapel*

*repositions Momma's 'World's Best Motivational Speaker' sign so as not to interfere with flailing of arms*

 

[Ainilome]

:8}

Maybe with my wonky sleep schedule I've channeled a +3 to my motivation skill?

 

[Thaos Nightwind]

:8}

Maybe with my wonky sleep schedule I've channeled a +3 to my motivation skill?

hehe.. no worries. You ROCK!!!