Season 4 The "did Sark love lauren" debate continues...

I think that Lauren and Sark really felt like they had to trust eachother. I mean Sark is always someones lap dog, but with Lauren, they were equals...they were partners. I thin kSark respected that about Lauren. I think that they both had a mutual respect for eachother and their work, and Sark's lingering time in a jail cell, may have turned his respect for her, into love. But thats just my take on it. BTW....kudos to David Anders....nice acting. As well as Michael Vartan. Very powerful scene.
 
verdantheart said:
Like I said in my column, it has a revisionist feel, but the scene was too well acted--I really think we are meant to believe Sark feels something for Lauren here. (Oh, why did you have to miss it?! It's the best opportunity DA has ever had to really show what he can do!) They just didn't have any characterization in s3, so we're stuck with backfill.  :confused:
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I agree with you. The scene was very very very well acted, especially from DA part, it was lika a chamber play (or what ever the word is in English). We were to belive Sark loved Lauren.
But it doesn't make sense, for all the reason stated above and a million more. That was not Sark, and he's been in prison for long time before without transforming into a "better man".
It must be an act, but for whatever reason??
 
Guysss! I finally watched the scene and I think I figured out an interpretation that might work! I haven't written this down yet, so bear with me as I attempt to explain...

OK, I believe that there are two distinct reasons Sark went to see Lauren's body with Vaughn, and displayed the emotion he did in front of him, as well as forced Vaughn to look at Lauren's body. The first I believe people have previously touched on: to get Vaughn to have to relive the past, thus weakening him in a way, making him again a slave to his emotions (okay strong wording, but you get the idea...)... Basically, to undercut Vaughn somehow. To make himself look like a better person than Vaughn, even. To push Vaughn's buttons. However you want to say it.

Second, and this is what I think is most telling... Sark had lots of time to rethink his life in jail. He says this to Sloane. He says he is a changed man. When we see Sark break down at the sight of Lauren, we think it is because he loved her. Notice, however, that Sark does not say "I loved her." Though he calls Lauren (in 'Echoes') "the woman I loved," what he says in 'Man of His Word' is this: "Lauren loved me." (He may have used the pronoun rather than the proper noun, but you get the idea.) What he wants -- and the amount of time he spent alone in jail has certainly added to the intensity of this desire -- is to be loved by someone. His father never loved him, remember. We don't know anything about his mother. But we know that his father's lack of affection, in the end, drove Sark to kill him. He even refers to this in S2 (Caplan-related ep; can't remember the name...): "What I want is that which I never had." THUS, we can be allowed to conclude that Sark may even be deluding himself into thinking that what he and Lauren had was a healthy relationship. And he may even be deluding himself into thinking that Lauren loved him (no evidence of Lauren's true affection for him is revealed in S3, and like sugababyboo said, all of the evidence points toward that they would have killed each other if their individual lives or success had depended on it). The thing about being all alone in a cell for a year or so is that it messes with your head. The emotion Sark showed in the scene in MOHW could have come from a completely fabricated feeling he had manufactured for himself to feel loved when he was at his most unloved.

That, my friends, is my interpretation, not very well stated, but I tried... Hope you like! :smiley:
 
^^That's an interesting theory and I think it could reconcile the "Sark Loved Lauren" and the "Sark Doesn't Love Lauren" camps. If that's true, Sark has tricked himself into believing that he did love Lauren while in reality, it may not really be true. He thinks he loved her, but he doesn't really know what love is. I think that Sark does want to be loved. I think it really hurt him that his father rejected him and you could tell that he hated it when his father called him pathetic in Remnants. So is that what he's looking for? Love? Has his "love" for Lauren motivated him to change? I think so. He wants to find "that which he never had".

Wasn't that scene great!?!
 
Well, it is an improvement and does a better job of explaining the disparity between seaon 3 and 4 Sark . . . :blink:
 
Leslie said:
And he may even be deluding himself into thinking that Lauren loved him (no evidence of Lauren's true affection for him is revealed in S3, and like sugababyboo said, all of the evidence points toward that they would have killed each other if their individual lives or success had depended on it). The thing about being all alone in a cell for a year or so is that it messes with your head. The emotion Sark showed in the scene in MOHW could have come from a completely fabricated feeling he had manufactured for himself to feel loved when he was at his most unloved.

That, my friends, is my interpretation, not very well stated, but I tried... Hope you like! :smiley:
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Great theory! And thanks for mentioning me. For some reason I can see Lauren and Sark fighting to the death for either their own lives or for their own personal gain. Opposed to Sydney and Vaughn. I believe that they only way these two would fight to the death is if it was a last resort (because we all know how resourceful these two are when it seems like there are no options left, they usually create one) and it would also mean saving the world or if the country's national security was jeopardized (like how Buffy had to kill Angel to save the world in Season 2 even though he had gotten his soul back, lord that makes me all teary eyed).

Last season, we never really saw an emotional connection between Lauren and Sark. There were never any scenes where they spoke about their inner feelings, fears or even about their past, that's usually how an emotional connection is formed. If the writers and JJ really wanted to show that was more to the relationship they would have written these scenes which would have made both of these characters very complex, but they didn't. From what I've learned, there is more to love than lust. When you ask someone who is married or in a committed relationship, why they love their significant other, you never usually hear, "Because they were hot" or "The sex is great" It's always, "Because he/she is caring, giving, generous, selfless, forgiving understanding, a great listener etc." If Lauren was asked this question about Sark, I don't think she'd say any of those qualities. If she were going to be honest, I'd think she'd say that he was great in bed. That's my take on this shizzy. :lol:
 
MissingSark said:
That stinks that you missed the crying scene!  It was excellent!  For both Sark and Vaughn.

Last week, you could argue that Sark was trying to tick Vaughn off when he said that he loved Lauren.  However, I don't think the same argument can really apply this week.  Why would Sark make himself so vulnerable in front of Vauhgn if it wasn't genuine?  That scene was probably the most eye-opening scene we've ever experienced with Sark.  If he's putting on a show, it's one heck of a show and I just don't see the point of him doing it.  I think that he did love Lauren.

What I'm wondering is if it was his love for Lauren that made him want to change (or at least give the appearance of it).  In the S3 finale, he gives up Lauren's location and betrays her.  Sark could be blaming himself for the death of the woman he loved.  He could be thinking that, if he'd been faithful/loyal to her, she'd still be alive.  So maybe that's why he wants to change.
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At first I thought that maybe there was something hidden on Lauren (rambaldi related maybe), but now I think he really loved her and that he blames himself for her death.
 
Leslie, that theory actually makes quite a bit of sense. I might be a Lark fan, but from the beginning, it did appear just to be the passion. But it could have grown to love- or what both of them believed to be love. Both of them believed it was love since Sark has basically had a love-less life, while Lauren is losing (at the time) the man she loved. Who knows, there actually could have been real love.
 
I don't really know how I feel on this...Leslie your theory is very interesting. I guess I just find it hard to believe that Sark really was in love with Lauren cause this all sort of came out of nowhere. From what the fans could see it was all passion but all the sudden this season it's all about love. So I don't know. It would be cool if they got Melissa George back to do a couple episodes with flashbacks. Anywayz...yea I'm not sure but I'm leaning towards he just thought he was in love (cause Lauren sure didn't appear to be in love with him).
 
Yeah flashbacks would be a good idea, to establish some kind of background. I'm just afraid JJ wants them to have been actually in love with each other, which I find completely implausible.

One thing I have to mention: Lauren didn't love Vaughn, at any point.

But yeah... :smiley: That's my theory.
 
One thing I have to mention: Lauren didn't love Vaughn, at any point.

Ain't that the truth! I am still not necessarily buying that Sark loved her.....who knows, the whole thing could have just been to mess with Vaughn's head. I do not know why he would go to such great lengths to do that.......and it's not that I have such a hard time believing that Sark could love........it is just the object of his supposed love.......Lauren......yuck!!! Could he pick a more unloveable woman? :P
 
I thought they were both in it for the... fooling around. It's so weird to hear sark's feelings! he's always been so cold and evil (and HOTT!). maybe he really did love her and he would kind of covered it up with all of those snide comments about lauren and vaughn!
 
I agree that Lauren never loved Vaughn. I honestly think the only person she loved was her father because she couldn't kill him.

Sark is very manipulative and deceiving. People like that are usually very great at acting.
 
I think he only has feeling for her when Vaughn is around...only because it ticks him off. And he loves to do that to people...thats why he enjoyed that kiss from sydney and wanted to act like she was lauren just to tick vaughn off.

Melissa
 
sugababyboo said:
I agree that Lauren never loved Vaughn.  I honestly think the only person she loved was her father because she couldn't kill him.

Sark is very manipulative and deceiving.  People like that are usually very great at acting.
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Melissa said:
I think he only has feeling for her when Vaughn is around...only because it ticks him off. And he loves to do that to people...thats why he enjoyed that kiss from sydney and wanted to act like she was lauren just to tick vaughn off.

Melissa
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Agreed. :D :surf:
 
After reading all of these I don't know what to think. I thought maybe he really was upset but then the things about ticking Vaughn off makes sense as well. I hope he really was sad, it was cute, I was happy to see Sark like that.
 
in my opinion, i think that he did really love, or as much as Julian Sark knows how to love, Lauren. Yes he wanted to wind Vaughn up, but he would have been a lot more vindictive if that was all he wanted to do. And i don't think Sark would actually reduce himself to tears just to piss Vaughn off. That would be completely beneath him. Sark doesn't sob for anyone or anything, i mean he had his father killed without even blinking, so i really do believe that he had genuine feelings for Lauren.
 
garnergarnish said:
in my opinion, i think that he did really love, or as much as Julian Sark knows how to love, Lauren. Yes he wanted to wind Vaughn up, but he would have been a lot more vindictive if that was all he wanted to do. And i don't think Sark would actually reduce himself to tears just to piss Vaughn off. That would be completely beneath him. Sark doesn't sob for anyone or anything, i mean he had his father killed without even blinking, so i really do believe that he had genuine feelings for Lauren.
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i totally agree. it was weired to see Sark showing his *true* feelings though. i was like "wow! he actually cared for someone?" now if we could just get him to channel it to Syd...
 
No NO NO NO NO No he can't. He knew she was using him. He had to have known. I DON'T BELIEVE IT< NEVER. I WILL NEVER BELIEVE IT. Anyway Sark is mine....so LAuren can back off
 
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