Politics The Justice System

Im from australia where people under 18 are classed as minors when it comes to the criminal system, where they dont recieve the same punishements or treatments. however, a lot of crimes lately have been committed by 15 and 16 year olds, some quite violent. Yet they manage to walk away with no punishement because they are under 18. I dont know about other countrys system, but do you think that children and young adults who commit 'adult' (such as murder, theft, drink driving etc) crimes should be charged and processed under the adult system and dealt with appropriatly?
 
Absolutely.... If you are 15 or 16 and choose to commit a crime (ie: murder, rape, etc...) than you should be punished just like an adult.... In the US, depending on the crime, you can be tried as an adult -- as it should be. I believe alot of people under the age of 18 believe they can get away with the crimes they do because they are minors. If they are going to commit these violent crimes than they should be held responsible and face the consequences of them....
 
Absolutely.... If you are 15 or 16 and choose to commit a crime (ie: murder, rape, etc...) than you should be punished just like an adult.... In the US, depending on the crime, you can be tried as an adult -- as it should be. I believe alot of people under the age of 18 believe they can get away with the crimes they do because they are minors. If they are going to commit these violent crimes than they should be held responsible and face the consequences of them....
like my english teacher said, "Being an adult is a mindset, not a yardstick of leaglity". if a 15 or 16 year-old kills someone, then he or she ought to be charged as a murderer. it's silly really to call people over 18 an adult, because it's not like they are completely different when they wake up the morning of their 18th birthday.

just a side note, the Judicial System is rarely just, it is (at best) fair.
 
If a minor can commit such a horrible crime such as murder or rape they should absolutly be tried as an adult. Kids that commit crimes like that aren't going to reform after some minor sentence. Something is obviously wrong with their noggin.
 
The US does try minors as adults. A kid who went to my highschool back when I was a sophmomore murdered both of his grandparents (quite a shock in my little town). Anyways, he was 16 at the time and tried as an adult, as he should be.

We're seeing a lot more minors tried as adults in this country, at least from what I've seen. It's scary how young some people are when they commit these acts of violence and know exactly what they're doing.
 
its good that the US justice system seems to be getting some cases right. Recently in Australia a 16 year old ran down a man and killed him in a hit and run. Basically he got off because he was under 18. Also, the people committing crimes seem to be getting younger and younger. A 14 and 15 year old were in a high speed car chase near me. While it may be the justice system, do you think that parents have something to answer for as well?
 
I think that this is a very grey area of the law, which is essentially how it's treated in the Australian legal system anyhow. I don't think it's really possible to pinpoint any age and say that at that time, one should definitely be tried as an adult. At the moment that point is 18, but it's right that if someone is 16 or 17 and commits a murder, then in most cases they should be tried as an adult... So if the law is changed to say that at 16 someone should be tried as an adult, then what do you do about the 15 and 11 month year old who commits a serious crime - surely they should also be tried as an adult?

The truth is that while some 15 or 16 year olds are mentally mature enough to be tried as adults when they commit these crimes, others certainly aren't. Given that, I don't think it would be appropriate to lower the age limit. I think what should happen, and it already kind of does in Australia, is that it should be taken on a case-by-case basis. To be convicted of a crime under Australian law (the specifics differ between each state and territory somewhat, but it's possible to generalise still) you must have firstly committed the physical act (i.e. killed someone), and secondly have possessed the appropriate mental state (i.e. intending to kill someone). So if I were to accidentally hit someone with my car and kill them, phsyically it would have been my actions that killed them, but as I had no intent to kill them I would not be guilty of murder (although if I were doing something like driving 'recklessly' then I might be guilty of manslaughter - but that's a different story). My apologies if everyone already knows this, but it helps me get to my point...

So given this requirement for an appropriate mental state, if a 15 or 16 year old was to kill someone, for them to have this requisite mental state it would require that they were fully aware of what they were doing is wrong. Most people of that age group would know that killing people is wrong, but there are always going to be exceptions. Murder is one of the clearer categories - everyone knows that killing someone is morally repugnant - but crimes such as rape or theft or reckless driving are not so clear cut. If a 15 year old was to have sex with someone without consent, it would be easily arguable that they were not fully aware that what they were doing was really that wrong, or likewise with taking a car on a joy-ride - they were just doing it to have a bit of fun, and really didn't mean any harm.

The other issue is that some of these crimes carry very hefty penalties, and it would be tragic to see kids of age 15 being locked up for up to 20 years because of something stupid that they did at that age. In this sense, I suppose it would be reasonable to try minors as adults, but just take things into consideration when sentencing - like age, and likelihood of reoffending. I think at that age, kids certianly deserve a second chance, especially if the crime was taking a car for a joy-ride or something (as opposed to something more serious like murder).

And I think that absolutely parents have something to answer for, within reason - I don't think that, for example, a parent should be punished (like, jailed) for something that their child has done. Rather, that when children offend, it should be the whole family situation that's looked at, and perhaps the parents be forced to attend counselling also or something.

I'm sorry for my round about post - on the whole I agree with what people are saying, minors should be able to be tried as adults, but really I think it needs to be taken on a case-by-case basis.
 
Absolutely.... If you are 15 or 16 and choose to commit a crime (ie: murder, rape, etc...) than you should be punished just like an adult.... In the US, depending on the crime, you can be tried as an adult -- as it should be. I believe alot of people under the age of 18 believe they can get away with the crimes they do because they are minors. If they are going to commit these violent crimes than they should be held responsible and face the consequences of them....


I agree if you are old enough to know what you did you should be punish i don't care if you are 16 or 18 you know it was wrong so you should get punished!

Mel
 
No one has pointed out the double standard in our own system brought about by the recent decision handed down from the Supreme Court banning the execution of 16 and 17 year olds. (No one under 16 was allowed to be executed before the decision)

What kind of a message does it send when we try these people as adults, but do not punish them as adults?
 
No one has pointed out the double standard in our own system brought about by the recent decision handed down from the Supreme Court banning the execution of 16 and 17 year olds. (No one under 16 was allowed to be executed before the decision)

What kind of a message does it send when we try these people as adults, but do not punish them as adults?


You are absolutely right! There is a double standard. Gotta mull that one over.
 
I did some research. the Supreme COurt case overturning execution of 16 and 17 years olds involved a 17 year old, who along with his 14 year old accomplice, broke into Shirley Crooks home. They tied her hands with electrical cable, leather straps and duct tape and threw her into the Meramac River while she was still alive.........................for SIX DOLLARS. This murder happened in 1993.

Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in the decision "When a juvenile committs a heinous crime, the state can exact forfeiture of some of the most basic civil liberties but the state cannot extinguish his life and potential to attain a mature understanding of his own humanity."

By even mentioning humanity, the Justices are givng this "kid" (he is a man now--he's had 12 more years to live than poor Shirley Crook did) a little too much credit--he lacks humanity totally. The Justices are worreid about givng this murderer time to find himself but there is no consideration for what the victim endured and the loss and pain that her family and friends endure every day. The victim's fear whould not have lessened one bit had her killer been 30 instead of 17.
 
Persons under the age of 18 who have commited murder in the uk can be held at her magisties pleasure, this meaning that they are detained in a young offenders institution and then once they turn 18 are put in a jail. But how long they stay in Jail for is matter for a judge to review every couple of years i think.
 
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