Season 4 The problem at hand

V

verdantheart

Guest
We begin at the beginning (what a concept!), in the Bahamas, as Sydney and Marshall break into a bank safe while Vaughn and Dixon (wow) stage a diversion. The manager walks in just as Sydney is closing the safe. She honestly answers that she was breaking into his safe when he asks what she was doing, and they have a good laugh.

Back in LA, Sydney throws a birthday party for Weiss, who seems to be getting along well with Nadia (an invite to the Magic Castle?). Then Jack walks in upon a chilly breeze, saying with typically arid humor that his invitation must have been lost in the mail. His reason for dropping by, however, was to check on Sydney’s status with Nadia--has she told her who killed their mother yet. Sydney admits that she hasn’t, but that she plans to.

At APO, Sloane tells the team that the theft of the Valta computer--an advanced system for gathering information system from satellite networks--coincided with the deposit of three million euros into the account of one Martin Bishop, a noted ladykiller and thief who favors high-risk/high-reward military targets. After the meeting, Sloane thanks Sydney for taking Nadia in. Sydney expresses her regret over giving Sloane “a warm and fuzzy feeling.” Sloane lets Sydney know that Jack will be doing Nadia’s psych evaluation for APO.

Jack pulls Sydney aside and asks her when she plans to tell Nadia the truth and Sydney says that she will do it after the mission. Jack says that he has decided that it’s necessary after all and that he agrees with her plan.

Nadia looks on with Sloane and asks, “Is he always so cold?” Sloane responds, “Jack? I’m afraid so.” At that time, her evaluation begins.

The team brainstorms the approach and work out the details. Sydney suggests that since Bishop is a thief, they must be invited into his house in Spain. Therefore, they stage a traffic accident from which Bishop must rescue the seemingly hapless Sydney. He invites her to his house and snoops through her things as she takes a shower. She has, however, allayed his suspicions enough that he leaves her alone while he attends to business.

Meanwhile, Jack conducts his evaluation of the impatient Nadia. During a break, Sloane asks Jack if he has formed an opinion. Jacks says that he has, but that he needs to be certain.

In Spain, Sydney moves to the basement, transmits the location of the Valta, and heads out, but she is caught at the door by Bishop. Sydney pretends that she saw Bishop driving up and came to meet him.

In LA, Jack continues his questioning. A weary Nadia says, “I don’t mean to seem impatient, but I’ve never done anything that’s lasted as long as this.” Jack responds, “How sad for you.” They are interrupted by news of Sydney’s blown cover, however, and Jack concludes the examination.

Sloane asks whether Jack has learned anything helpful and Jack responds that he’s learned enough “to deal with the problem at hand.” He tells Sloane he wants to go after Sydney and take Nadia with him.

In Spain, Bishop is softly grilling Sydney, telling her that he doesn’t “believe in coincidences.” Meanwhile, the Alameda yards is raided a CIA team led by Weiss. They manage to destroy the Valta, but Weiss is captured. This news is reported to Bishop, who manages to capture Sydney in turn.

As Jack and Nadia fly to Spain, Nadia expresses her worry over possible discomfort that her presence might cause him. But Jack says that he “would never blame [her] for [her] mother’s infidelity.” Then he hands her a folder. He tells her that her “ability to adapt to sudden changes in protocol, to handle adverse situations is exceptional.”

Sydney and Weiss now share captivity. Bishop tells them that he needs something of equal or greater value to the Valta to replace it, or he’s toast. He is called away from his prisoners, however, leaving them with a goon--from whom they escape after a little diversion and struggle. Sydney pursues Bishop, but Nadia shows up in time to pump him full of lead.

She believes him to be the man who killed their mother.

Weiss seems to have joined his friends at APO, having discovered the existence of the black ops project.


Analysis . . .

OK, what exactly is it with Sydney? She refuses to take any of Vaughn’s clues to get outta there when chatting with Bishop. She pursues him and hangs onto his car when she could have left him to his employers to deal with. Think about it: he killed his wife. And then there’s Jack, who killed his, well, estranged wife, anyway. Sydney can’t kill Jack, but she might be able to come up with an excuse for blowing away this piece of scum--if she plays along long enough. And that might make her feel a little better. That’s the only excuse for Sydney’s unusual lack of assertiveness. Graceful exit? My eye. I wonder if it’s a conscious or subconscious impulse?

Sloane’s warm, fuzzy feeling. Sydney’s letting Nadia stay with her. Sloane’s happy because this will ease her transition--after all, the two women have so much in common. They share the same mother--with all the baggage that entails--and they both have issues with their respective fathers. They’re both in the espionage business, with the excitement and the pain that comes with it. Sisters share the experience in a different way than lovers do--anyway, this could be interesting.

Which brings us to the matter at hand, which is whether and when to tell Nadia the truth about Irina Derevko’s murder. Sydney wants to tell her as soon as possible because murder will out, after all, and better Nadia hear it from her, after all. Jack is against it--at least, that is, until he finds a way to circumvent Sydney’s action.

Let’s take a look at the ramifications of Sydney’s plan. Nadia doesn’t really know anyone that well yet, and she barely knows Jack at all. She isn’t related to Jack (that we know of), so if she learned that Jack killed her mother, all that there would be to keep her from pulling the trigger would be “he did it to save Sydney.” Would that be enough? Would that even register with “he killed your mother” screaming through her mind? I wonder. After all, Sydney can barely stand Jack, and he was saving her--and he is her father--she knows him and was even, finally, bonding with him.

Say Nadia did go after Jack. Either she would succeed, or he’d defend himself, either killing her or hurting her. Would he defend himself? Hm. At this point, it’s hard to say what his position regarding Nadia is. He knowingly abetted Sloane’s escape with her. It’s hard for me to picture his killing her to save himself, somehow. Perhaps if there were non-lethal means of stopping her . . . And in that case, think of the lingering consequences to their relationships and team. But if Nadia succeeded in killing Jack, consider the next domino--the effect of Jack’s death on Sydney. She might tell herself that she hates him now, perhaps, but do you imagine that she would not grieve for the old SOB who never had a chance to pull much joy out of life? Would she kick herself for not expressing her love for him? What would that do to her? To her relationship with Nadia? What would it do to Nadia? Would both of them survive the fallout?

Do you think that Jack hasn’t considered these possibilities? In more detail than I have?

Jack looks for an answer, in part, in Nadia’s psych profile--and comes up with the gambit of blaming the murder on Bishop, the thief holding Sydney captive. Convenient, eh? But that isn’t what Jack was getting at with his questions. His questions seemed to be probing Nadia for her loyalty and resistance to playing things by the book. And he seemed to come up aces there. Sydney is loyal enough, but she is also eager enough to turn people in--sometimes over-eager (when she tries to do it without sufficient evidence, for example). Nadia, from her answers, seems to put her priority on relationships and seems reluctant to report suspicions. Perhaps she would be more likely to give someone she trusts the benefit of every last doubt until she's absolutely certain.

Nadia notices that Jack's questions make her partner male. Jack says that this is irrelevant, but is it? If he's looking for eventual loyalty and forgiveness, it might not be entirely irrelevant. Nadia switches genders on Jack, and Jack continues in that vein, but this might be an important clue to Jack's thinking.

My feeling is that Jack is looking toward the future here. Jack must realize that he cannot sit on the truth forever--it is too widely known now; Bishop was a stop-gap measure. However, he now has time to work with Nadia to build some sort of relationship with her before this truth comes out. This will allow him to work with her sense of loyalty and protectiveness toward her team. Exactly how he intends to do this remains to be seen.


Random thoughts . . .

Hurrah! Dixon gets to, like, do something, mon!

An episode that begins at the beginning. As my college roomies would say, totally new concept!

“How sad for you.” Jack, you are hilarious.

Weiss gets in instead of a debrief. Is this because he knows everyone?

I am going to ignore the numerous theories that Irina isn’t really dead for these reasons: It seems very certain that Ms Olin is not returning and fans will not accept anyone else in the role; Jack has admitted that he killed Irina to his daughter (I don’t think he would do that for jollies); if she were only in hiding, there is no reason why Sydney could not be trusted with the secret any more than Jack (again with the jollies of the death cover story). I believe that the grave story that everyone pointed to as evidence of a cover-up on Sydney’s part was actually put in by the producers to prevent just the kind of denial that is occurring. Oh well, this is Alias, after all! lol . . . If she turns up someday, fine. Until then, may she rest in the peace she was named for.


Discuss . . .

So, do you think that Sydney’s staying with Bishop and going after him was an effort to take Jack out in effigy? Do you think this was conscious or not?

Why do you think Sydney’s in such a hurry to tell Nadia the truth? Is it spite or respect? Is it that Sydney can’t exact retribution, but Nadia can? (Consider the above question.) Or is it that the truth will come out eventually and “the earlier, the better.” Why? Do you think she has fully considered the consequences of her decision?

What do you think would have happened if Nadia had learned the truth at this juncture? Would she try to kill Jack?

If Nadia had learned the truth and decided to kill Jack, do you think that he would defend himself? Do you think he would kill Nadia if he had to in order to protect himself?

Let’s say Nadia did kill Jack. What do you think would happen between Sydney and Nadia? Between Sloane and Nadia?

What do you think Jack was trying to discover during his psychological examination of Nadia? He and Sloane seem to be very buddy-buddy in their plans for the girls so far. What do you think of that?

Nadia’s first impression of Jack--“Is he always so cold?” How do you see their relationship developing?

Sydney is working hard at keeping her attitude towards Sloane cold and angry. Do you see this continuing indefinitely? Or do you think Sloane will wear her down? Do you think Sydney puts too much energy into maintaining this attitude?

OK, a question I missed last week. Do you think Jack really doesn't know why Irina wanted to put a hit out on Sydney or do you think he's still withholding? If so, why? The jig is already up for him, after all. (If you're in denial, you might want to skip this one. ;))


Next:
Vaughn sees something he doesn’t want to; Nadia tries to penetrate the iceberg.
 
OMG I'm such an idiot - I actually forgot to read your column on the premiere episodes last week before watching this episode on Wednesday!

You are a true genius - I love your columns, you should be making money in journalism.

I guess I'll read last week's first and then come back and reply.
 
ivand67 said:
You are a true genius - I love your columns, you should be making money in journalism.
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Thanks. :blush: Just so long as I don't have to be a reporter. ;) (Too many ethical dilemmas.)
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So, do you think that Sydney’s staying with Bishop and going after him was an effort to take Jack out in effigy? Do you think this was conscious or not?
Wow, good call!! I didn't even think about why she was going after him...I just attributed it to Syd's typical reluctance to play by the rules. But if you look at the subtext, that really does make a lot of sense. Although, I wish they'd made it just a tad more obvious, because I have a feeling you're one of the only viewers who picked up on it.

Why do you think Sydney’s in such a hurry to tell Nadia the truth? Is it spite or respect? Is it that Sydney can’t exact retribution, but Nadia can? (Consider the above question.) Or is it that the truth will come out eventually and “the earlier, the better.” Why? Do you think she has fully considered the consequences of her decision?
If there's one thing Sydney's incapable of, it's fully considering the consequences of her decisions. Unlike both of her parents, she doesn't really seem to have the capacity for prolonged analysis of situations and their ramifications. At this point, it doesn't seem like she ever will. She's always been impetuous and followed her emotional inclinations. As for why she's in such a hurry to tell Nadia the truth, I think that she doesn't want to see her sister have to repeat her own heartbreaking past of lies and deception. The sooner Nadia can let go of the possibility of having a mother, the easier it will be for her. And when she knows who's responsible, she can stop being tormented by the need to search.

I don't think it's out of spite, because Syd doesn't really want Jack to be in danger. It's almost like she's trying to give Nadia what she didn't have - a clear, true picture of what Jack really is and what he's capable of, for both good and bad. The problem is, that knowledge isn't as personally important to Nadia because Jack isn't her father, Sloane is. I think Sydney is projecting her needs onto Nadia and treating her like a past version of herself.

What do you think would have happened if Nadia had learned the truth at this juncture? Would she try to kill Jack?
No. She doesn't seem as impetuous as Sydney, she would probably be able to see the ramifications of killing him, and as much as it would torment her, she wouldn't go through with it.

Let’s say Nadia did kill Jack. What do you think would happen between Sydney and Nadia? Between Sloane and Nadia?
It would destroy all possibility of a close relationship between the sisters. Sydney would probably retaliate by killing Sloane (soemthing she already wants to do, anyway.) As for Sloane's reaction, I honestly think he would be upset, because he seems to genuinely like and respect Jack. But being the cold-hearted monster he is, he'd get over it.

What do you think Jack was trying to discover during his psychological examination of Nadia? He and Sloane seem to be very buddy-buddy in their plans for the girls so far. What do you think of that?
I think he was trying to see traces of Irina, Sloane, and Sydney in her - seeing who she most resembled, whether she had the most potential for good or for evil, and whether she was vulnerable enough to be malleable in his hands. (She appears to be, but is it an act? I'm not convinced that Nadia believes Bishop killed her mother. Pretending to believe Jack would be a good way to get him off her back for the time being.) And Sloane and Jack are creeping me out...I want more clues to whatever it is they're keeping from Sydney and Nadia.

Nadia’s first impression of Jack--“Is he always so cold?” How do you see their relationship developing?
I have no idea, but it's going to be fascinating to watch! If Nadia has the same ability to deceive as Irina, Jack could really have met his match. The game of who's keeping what from whom between Jack, Sloane, Nadia, Sydney and even Vaughn has the potential to get VERY complex and VERY entertaining this season.

Sydney is working hard at keeping her attitude towards Sloane cold and angry. Do you see this continuing indefinitely? Or do you think Sloane will wear her down? Do you think Sydney puts too much energy into maintaining this attitude?
I think that's probably what she's most afraid of - that he will wear her down. But I have a feeling that she's just keeping in practice for when Sloane (inevitably) shows his evil side again.

Do you think Jack really doesn't know why Irina wanted to put a hit out on Sydney or do you think he's still withholding? If so, why? The jig is already up for him, after all.
Maybe the reason for the hit is the part that would be "incapacitating" for Sydney. Because the knowledge of the hit itself clearly isn't. He's obviously still keeping something from her.

What do you think about the kind of "out-there" theory that Sydney might have killed Irina when she was Julia Thorne and that that's really why she erased her memories, not because of the cube, and that Katya has been impersonating Irina? And that Jack only recently found out and is trying to keep it from her by taking the blame on himself? But in that case I guess Syd couldn't have found a body in Moscow, because it wouldn't exactly be recognizable by now, would it? ^_^

Okay, now that I've done the fun homework, I guess I have to get back to my real homework! I'm looking forward to the family dynamics this season so much - the introduction of Nadia is going to reinvigorate that aspect, I think! :smiley:
 
Until then, may she rest in the peace she was named for.
I LOVED THAT - perfect way to end it!

Why do you think Sydney’s in such a hurry to tell Nadia the truth?
maybe its simply as pure as she wants to start the relationship with her sister out on the right foot? I mean let's face it Sydney's life is a tangeled web of very complex lies so... its obvious that nadia would find out eventually and if she found out SYdney knew all along and was lying it would really hurt their relationship so maybe Sydney wants to do soemthign right this time

If Nadia had learned the truth and decided to kill Jack, do you think that he would defend himself? Do you think he would kill Nadia if he had to in order to protect himself?

Let’s say Nadia did kill Jack. What do you think would happen between Sydney and Nadia? Between Sloane and Nadia?

honestly - can jack die? because hes looking pretty immortal to me... it just seems that for this little new spy to be the one to kill be bad spy daddy jack... sooooo unlikely and frankly kinda sad that jack would be taken out by someone like that...
im guessing jack would try to talk his way out of nadia killing him but maybe he would defend himself
but if she did kill jack (and thats one hell of an IF) i think syd and nadia's relatinshiop woudl be esentially broken for good... and then Sydney might take a 'Jacklike' approach and kill sloane which we all know that she wants to do anyway and then well... the show would just turn into one giant mass murder :lol:
but seriously - i think Sloane genuintly likes Jack and Syd so i think he'd be kinda pissed too....

Sydney is working hard at keeping her attitude towards Sloane cold and angry. Do you see this continuing indefinitely? Or do you think Sloane will wear her down? Do you think Sydney puts too much energy into maintaining this attitude?
i do think she puts energy into hating sloane but then again her anger is deepy rooted
after all Sloane is the one behind Danny's murder and he decieved her for so long that her anger and hatred run strong and deep
i think it would take a massive change for her to even lower her feelings from loathing to just plain hating and then down to a general dislike
will she ever like him? no way


Do you think Jack really doesn't know why Irina wanted to put a hit out on Sydney or do you think he's still withholding? If so, why?
i dont think jack knows the true reason
he may have his suspicions but... i really dont think he knows....
 
SkyGirl5 said:
but if she did kill jack (and thats one hell of an IF) i think syd and nadia's relatinshiop woudl be esentially broken for good... and then Sydney might take a 'Jacklike' approach and kill sloane which we all know that she wants to do anyway and then well... the show would just turn into one giant mass murder :lol:
but seriously - i think Sloane genuintly likes Jack and Syd so i think he'd be kinda pissed too....
That's so funny...I said almost the EXACT same thing in my post above! :lol:
 
Azalea said:
Wow, good call!! 
Why, thank you. ;) Every now and then, huh?

If there's one thing Sydney's incapable of, it's fully considering the consequences of her decisions. 
Hee, hee. That's for sure.

I think he was trying to see traces of Irina, Sloane, and Sydney in her - seeing who she most resembled, whether she had the most potential for good or for evil, and whether she was vulnerable enough to be malleable in his hands.  (She appears to be, but is it an act?  I'm not convinced that Nadia believes Bishop killed her mother.  Pretending to believe Jack would be a good way to get him off her back for the time being.)   
Hm, if so, that's some act--and she really takes after her mother! :lol: The thief-as-killer really is too handy a coincidence; is she really being so open-minded (although her results point to an open-mindedness as well as loyalty and willingness to overlook, well, iffy behavior . . .). I want to keep my mind open about this; but there is a slot open for a major siren . . . ;)

What do you think about the kind of "out-there" theory that Sydney might have killed Irina when she was Julia Thorne and that that's really why she erased her memories, not because of the cube, and that Katya has been impersonating Irina?  And that Jack only recently found out and is trying to keep it from her by taking the blame on himself?  But in that case I guess Syd couldn't have found a body in Moscow, because it wouldn't exactly be recognizable by now, would it? ^_^
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As you know, I've believed for some time that Katya has been impersonating Irina. As for the rest of the theory, well, I like it! Think of the angst! Sydney descovers that she's been hating her father all this time, when she really should be hating herself . . . in fact, she discovers that he's taken the blame for everything so that she wouldn't have to learn the real reason that she couldn't live with her memories! (How sweet of him!) He could have found the body and disposed of it in such a way (burning) that the date of death could not be determined, yet leave it identifiable (tooth-pulp DNA). . . . Have to think over the timeline, behavior issues. But who sets up the hit (not Jack because then he'd know that Sydney could find out; and why go through a hitman, to cover for Sydney? Or is this a different hit; Lauren perhaps?)? Hm, some details to work out here . . .

In fact, this would solve a problem I've posed in an upcoming essay: the stated reasons for Sydney's memory erasure are insufficient. I go into a whole lot of reasons & detail for my thinking, suffice it to say, but unless Sydney has another reason that is incredibly compelling . . . well, let's just say, we're just left with the explanation that the existing solution for the erased memory is so much bad writing. :lol: Too bad we have to wait so darn long for this essay to come out . . . we might even have an answer by that time! :blink: :P
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So, do you think that Sydney’s staying with Bishop and going after him was an effort to take Jack out in effigy? Do you think this was conscious or not?
No. I think she stayed to set up Nadia's shooting spree and the revelation that Jack lied to Nadia about who killed Irina. Merely a plot device, IMO.

Why do you think Sydney’s in such a hurry to tell Nadia the truth? Is it spite or respect? Is it that Sydney can’t exact retribution, but Nadia can? (Consider the above question.) Or is it that the truth will come out eventually and “the earlier, the better.” Why? Do you think she has fully considered the consequences of her decision?
She has not considered the full consequences. She is tired of lies -- from her father, Sloane, Irina, Vaughn, everyone -- and thus wants the truth to come out. Part of it is also getting Jack back for what he did to her (not telling her the truth right away/his basic shadiness), but I also think she wants her sister to know the truth so that Nadia will not have to go through what Syd did. She loves her sister.

What do you think would have happened if Nadia had learned the truth at this juncture? Would she try to kill Jack?
Excellent question. Hafta wait till she discovers the truth to find out... ;)

Something that boggles my mind is that Nadia doesn't seem to understand the extent of Irina's past crimes. She has an idealized view of Irina, it seems, just as Syd had an idealized view of her mother, Laura, before she found out the truth... Interesting... Another purposeful S1 parallel?

If Nadia had learned the truth and decided to kill Jack, do you think that he would defend himself? Do you think he would kill Nadia if he had to in order to protect himself?
You bet! Without batting an eyelash.

Let’s say Nadia did kill Jack. What do you think would happen between Sydney and Nadia? Between Sloane and Nadia?
Haha! :thud: Hard to imagine... It's impossible to say what Syd would feel toward Nadia at this point, since her true feelings about him aren't exactly obvious. As for Sloane, since it's difficult to judge his relationship with Jack (those two are hiding more secrets, I just know it!), I can't say what his reaction would be. I do remember, though, that he was willing in the past to kill Sydney (or allow her to die), even though at that point he believed she may have been his daughter. Same with Sydney's friends.

What do you think Jack was trying to discover during his psychological examination of Nadia? He and Sloane seem to be very buddy-buddy in their plans for the girls so far. What do you think of that?
Yeah - I really want to know this! :P It's driving me nuts what those two are up to.

Nadia’s first impression of Jack--“Is he always so cold?” How do you see their relationship developing?
Unsure, but that scene bothered me more because Nadia was supposed to have had a falling out with Sloane, and now she's kinda like Sydney was with Jack during S3... Not huggy and all, but still "close."

Sydney is working hard at keeping her attitude towards Sloane cold and angry. Do you see this continuing indefinitely? Or do you think Sloane will wear her down? Do you think Sydney puts too much energy into maintaining this attitude?
I think she is inevitably right in her decision not to trust him, but being cold to him all day every day doesn't help matters, since he is her boss, currently. She would do better to develop an outer shell like she had in S1. Keep friends close and enemies closer, so to speak...

OK, a question I missed last week. Do you think Jack really doesn't know why Irina wanted to put a hit out on Sydney or do you think he's still withholding? If so, why? The jig is already up for him, after all. (If you're in denial, you might want to skip this one. ;))
My wishful thinking says he knows why. Because I refuse to end the season without knowing why. And JJ doesn't need Lena to make up a reason for that contract, so he has no excuse. :hmm:


I am still in denial, simply because if Irina is dead, to me it means the show has suffered a loss it probably won't recover from. But your reasoning for her really being dead is sound. Sadly. :(
 
Leslie said:
So, do you think that Sydney’s staying with Bishop and going after him was an effort to take Jack out in effigy? Do you think this was conscious or not?
No. I think she stayed to set up Nadia's shooting spree and the revelation that Jack lied to Nadia about who killed Irina. Merely a plot device, IMO.
Well, I'll have to disagree with you because 1) they made a point that Bishop killed his wife simply to spend more time with his mistress and 2) they made a big deal out of Sydney stalling & staying in there looking for an opportunity to get to Bishop when Vaughn was practically begging her to escape--and she had a better opportunity. She was cruisin for a bruisin--his bruisin. But, yeah, I think it was a bit subtle, & you can argue the other way . . . but nah, I'm arguing against plot device . . . last season . . . now there were plenty of things that couldn't be seen any other way . . .

What do you think would have happened if Nadia had learned the truth at this juncture? Would she try to kill Jack?
Excellent question. Hafta wait till she discovers the truth to find out... ;)

If Nadia had learned the truth and decided to kill Jack, do you think that he would defend himself? Do you think he would kill Nadia if he had to in order to protect himself?
You bet! Without batting an eyelash.
Interesting . . . so many people here seem to have trouble believing that Nadia--who barely knows Jack from Adam--would have a big problem killing him, while the have none believing that ramification-considering Jack, who knows that Sydney would doubtlessly despise him even more for killing Nadia than for killing her own mother (who was, let's face it, ethically challenged and apparently wanted Sydney dead), would have no problem at all killing Nadia, who has her whole life ahead of her, and who is (as far as Sydney knows) pretty innocent (although I'm sure she's less innocent that she appears). Go figure. :lol:

OK, a question I missed last week. Do you think Jack really doesn't know why Irina wanted to put a hit out on Sydney or do you think he's still withholding? If so, why? The jig is already up for him, after all. (If you're in denial, you might want to skip this one.  ;))
My wishful thinking says he knows why. Because I refuse to end the season without knowing why. And JJ doesn't need Lena to make up a reason for that contract, so he has no excuse. :hmm:
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I think we will know why. Why? Because this writing team (I believe, unless they've suddenly lost their minds) understands that we, the audience, need to know why--and by the end of the season. ;)
 
[attachment=15641:attachment]OMG I love the part where Syd and Weiss are in that room with that creppy wife killer guy. And the dude is like "What your real name???" and syd is like" Iam ... Iam what... I am guna kick your asss!!!!"and then Weiss is like "Son of a b****!!" and the the guy trys to shot him but misses him on purpose!! And then Weiss latere fakes heart problems(which that was so horrible!!)And syd takes down the guard and then Weiss stsrtes the funnist part. I knew it... Its balck ops isn't it!!! Vanghn is in on it too,right!!!And Syd just like I can tell u right now ...juat come on!!! That my favorite part!!
Sandy05
:D
 
Why do you think Sydney’s in such a hurry to tell Nadia the truth? Is it spite or respect? Is it that Sydney can’t exact retribution, but Nadia can? (Consider the above question.) Or is it that the truth will come out eventually and “the earlier, the better.” Why? Do you think she has fully considered the consequences of her decision?
I think Syd feels that “the earlier, the better.” In addition, while Sydney is not as naive as she used to be, she will never be able to think through a senario to the end. Syd is better at snap decisions, made in the moment. That she often lets her emotions run control over her does not help the matter, it just means she will never grow out of it.

What do you think would have happened if Nadia had learned the truth at this juncture? Would she try to kill Jack?
I don't really see her trying to kill Jack, though that is a really hard question. She did swear to kill her mother's killer, but she also seems to have an immense amount of family loyalty. Nadia might see that while she wants to kill Jack, that action would be betraying Sydney. Tough to say which side would win over.

If Nadia had learned the truth and decided to kill Jack, do you think that he would defend himself? Do you think he would kill Nadia if he had to in order to protect himself?
Another hard question. I think I'll pass on this until we get a little further into the season and see how things go.

Let’s say Nadia did kill Jack. What do you think would happen between Sydney and Nadia? Between Sloane and Nadia?
Between Syd and Nadia? If the writers actually meant something about the whole "The Passenger and The Chosen One shall battle, neither will survive" thing, I think Jack's death at Nadia's hands would put that into effect, thus ending the show. Between Sloane and Nadia, I can't even begin to speculate.

What do you think Jack was trying to discover during his psychological examination of Nadia? He and Sloane seem to be very buddy-buddy in their plans for the girls so far. What do you think of that?
I think Jack was trynig to figure out how exactly Nadia would react to learning the "truth" about who killed Irina, while at the same time getting to know every little thing about her he possibly could.
I have a feeling Jack and Sloane aren't being buddy-buddy because of some plans for their daughters, I think it's more about some knowlege they have, and nobody else does. And I also feel Vaughn is heavily involved, even if he doesn't know it- or all of it. There is something about Vaughn this season, he knows something, and I bet it's somehow linked to whatever Sloane and Jack have going on.

OK, I'm outta time, maybe I can answer the rest later :smiley:
 
Someone fixed my "quote issues" on your last column and boxed them in! So nice...thank you to whomever! :D

So, do you think that Sydney’s staying with Bishop and going after him was an effort to take Jack out in effigy? Do you think this was conscious or not?


So this was a totally new thought to me. I guess I am in denial about a lot of things. In the long wait for S4 of Alias I have been rewatching S1 & 2 and watching the relationship b/t Jack and Syd evolve is so great and some of the best chemistry on the show, so I don't want to be thinking that part of her wants revenge on her Dad. I just want her to see that yeah it REALLY sucked , but as usual her Dad was protecting her and looking out for her! Because he loves her in his own warped spydad way! :rolleyes:

Why do you think Sydney’s in such a hurry to tell Nadia the truth? Is it spite or respect? Is it that Sydney can’t exact retribution, but Nadia can? (Consider the above question.) Or is it that the truth will come out eventually and “the earlier, the better.” Why? Do you think she has fully considered the consequences of her decision
?

So, I hope highlighting the question and clicking on the quote box works! :blink: Anyway...I think part of the reason Syd so wants to tell Nadia the truth is because she craves family, a relationship that is open and honest and is hoping she can have that with Nadia. Personally, I would agree with Azalea, that she does not think things through and might reconsider if fully analyzing the possible ramifications. But then again part of what we love about Syd is that she has always been led by her heart, not cold logic. Although I think where Syd is concerned, and her only, Jack is also led by his heart!!! Awww it just makes me so warm and fuzzy!! :angelic:
I don't think Sydney is looking for retribution though, through Nadia.

What do you think would have happened if Nadia had learned the truth at this juncture? Would she try to kill Jack?

I am not sure about this one....I would like to think no, but if she really believed Bishop killed her mom and that is how she handled it, I would say yes. Though I am having a hard time swallowing that Nadia was so easily duped. So we shall see! ;)
Let’s say Nadia did kill Jack. What do you think would happen between Sydney and Nadia? Between Sloane and Nadia?

Nadia and Syd could not possibly have the relationship that Syd longs for if Nadia did indeed kill her Dad. Let's face it, she may be conflicted and upset now, but Sydney loves her Dad. We have a lot of previous episodes that clearly show that.


What do you think Jack was trying to discover during his psychological examination of Nadia? He and Sloane seem to be very buddy-buddy in their plans for the girls so far. What do you think of that

I, too, am creeped out about this whole development. I mean really, how many weird glances did Jack and Sloane exchange in this episode. I would like to believe that whatever is going on, it is in the girls best interest, but then again Sloane is involved.. :( So either Jack is using him somehow or they are in cohoots...scary! As far as Jack and Nadia, it seemed that he was looking for much more than how she would respond to the intel about her Mom. I think he was trying to ascertain just how much she and his beloved late wife were alike. ;)


Nadia’s first impression of Jack--“Is he always so cold?” How do you see their relationship developing?

Okay, call me a dreamer....but I kind of want Nadia to end up being Jack's. Sydney thought the same thing about her Dad and came to find out that there is a soul in there somewhere. I think it would be neat to see Nadia discover the same thing, whether daughter or not!




Sydney is working hard at keeping her attitude towards Sloane cold and angry. Do you see this continuing indefinitely? Or do you think Sloane will wear her down? Do you think Sydney puts too much energy into maintaining this attitude?

I am not sure could wear her down...Nadia may be able to convince her to at least pretend to give her father a chance, but Sloane has way too much of a past record with Sydney.


OK, a question I missed last week. Do you think Jack really doesn't know why Irina wanted to put a hit out on Sydney or do you think he's still withholding? If so, why? The jig is already up for him, after all. (If you're in denial, you might want to skip this one. goodwink.gif)

Okay I am in denial, but I asked in the previous article and desiring your keen insight ;) , I will ask again. In your opinion is there anyway that Irena did not put a hit on Syd's life. I can accept that she is gone...it needed to be tied up....but I am sooo struggling w/ the hit. And I cannot reconcile it with all I watched transpire in season 2. I keep thinking it was Katya who placed the hit. But I cannot believe that Jack would make such a huge error as killing the wrong woman. Though if he did(unimaginable though it seems) that definitley would leave Sydney incapacitated. Anyway if you have a moment your insights here would be greatly appreciated! I feel as thought I should sign off as desparately in denial! :blush:

Thanks for another great column! (y)
 
OK, questions I missed:

So, do you think that Sydney’s staying with Bishop and going after him was an effort to take Jack out in effigy? Do you think this was conscious or not?
I see it as more of a stubborness issue. Sydney simply will not back out of anything, even if she really should. She probably also has a strong need to take out every "bad guy" she sees.

Nadia’s first impression of Jack--“Is he always so cold?” How do you see their relationship developing?
It'll probably be bumpy at times, but I think Nadia will always be wary of Jack. She may even probe Sydney to find out anything she can about him. I'm not sure how Jack is going to go about things concernig Nadia.

Sydney is working hard at keeping her attitude towards Sloane cold and angry. Do you see this continuing indefinitely? Or do you think Sloane will wear her down? Do you think Sydney puts too much energy into maintaining this attitude?
Sydney will always have dark feelings concerning Sloane, but she will learn how to hide them, though that will take much time. I very easy see her jumping down his throat at every available opportunity. Should be interesting to watch.

OK, a question I missed last week. Do you think Jack really doesn't know why Irina wanted to put a hit out on Sydney or do you think he's still withholding? If so, why? The jig is already up for him, after all. (If you're in denial, you might want to skip this one. ;))
I pretty much always think Jack (and Sloane) knows everything, yet tells little. And like he said, "Sometimes a satisfying lie can be better than the awful thruth." As to why Jack's keeping whatever he knows from Sydney, I have no idea.

Great column as always (y)
 
great column verdy :smiley:

am LOVING Azalea's theory about syd killing Irina when she was Julia!!! (y) (y)


and am too tired to answer analysis for now. :smiley:
 
You are pure genius! I was just coming to the board to comment on something I realized upon rewatching the video, and you had already put it in your analysis. :: significant sigh :: Great minds think alike... :: pause :: Or something...

Do you think that Jack hasn’t considered these possibilities? In more detail than I have?
If anyone agonizes over his actions and their consequences, it's most definitely Jack Bristow. After his wife was revealed a traitor, Jack punished himself for his "lack of intuition." Jack does not allow himself the "luxury" of impulsive decisions. He considers their impact on his life and, although we may not believe it at first, their impact on the people around him. I'm sure Jack Bristow has ran over all the possible options and the ramifications of each.

So, do you think that Sydney’s staying with Bishop and going after him was an effort to take Jack out in effigy? Do you think this was conscious or not?
I'll buy that. I don't think it was entirely conscious. I think Sydney's anger with her father is much deeper than even she realizes.

Why do you think Sydney’s in such a hurry to tell Nadia the truth? Is it spite or respect? Is it that Sydney can’t exact retribution, but Nadia can? (Consider the above question.) Or is it that the truth will come out eventually and “the earlier, the better.” Why? Do you think she has fully considered the consequences of her decision?
I think that Sydney is pretending it's out of respect, but her real goal is to sort of "expose" Nadia to the "monstrosity" that is Jack. I think that she's eager to have someone on her side that understands the full pain and impact of the truth, and she wants someone to sympathize with her about her father. I don't think Sydney's really thought about the real significance of this piece of information... I think it's more about Sydney not wanting to bear this "load" by herself.

What do you think would have happened if Nadia had learned the truth at this juncture? Would she try to kill Jack?
If you had asked me this before the episode, I wouldn't have believed it. But, given her irrational need to beat an already dead horse (not to imply something about Peter O'Meara), I think she might actually do it-- especially now that she's been lied to about it.

If Nadia had learned the truth and decided to kill Jack, do you think that he would defend himself? Do you think he would kill Nadia if he had to in order to protect himself?
I don't think Jack would ever allow himself to be eliminated. He's too smart for that. But, as you said, I can't see him killing Nadia, under any circumstances. I just don't think he'd allow it to get to that point.

Let’s say Nadia did kill Jack. What do you think would happen between Sydney and Nadia? Between Sloane and Nadia?
Things would be very strained. I don't care if they share a mother, I think Sydney would never be able to forgive Nadia. Especially once we find out the actual motivation behind this drama with Irina, I think Sydney would grow to hate her sister for taking away her one remaining family member (outside of Nadia). I'm not really sure about Sloane. I think that, while his bond with Nadia appears to be genuine, he can never truly change. I think Sloane is, and always will be, a Rambaldi-crazed liar. I think if Nadia's murder of Jack got in the way of his ulterior motives, Sloane would be pretty upset, and he wouldn't hesitate to eliminate any obstacles.

What do you think Jack was trying to discover during his psychological examination of Nadia? He and Sloane seem to be very buddy-buddy in their plans for the girls so far. What do you think of that?
It is far outside of even my twisted mind to try and understand the motivations of a complex character like Jack Bristow. I think outside of trying to understand her reactions to certain scenarios that he believes she "may encounter in the field," he has some plan besides a simple stop-gap with this Bishop thing.
As for the he and Sloane thing, that small exchange they have when Jack asks permission to take Nadia to Malage indicates that Sloane shares a motivation to keep Nadia in the dark a little bit longer. And while we all might be inclined to believe Sloane is doing this "for the good" of someone, let's be honest with ourselves: Do we actually believe Sloane is capable of working for the good of someone unless is lies within the scope of his plans? So, I guess the real question I have for you is this: What motivation could Sloane have to keep the truth from his own daughter? What's more-- what could Sloane and Jack be doing that would be complicated by Nadia's knowing the truth of the circumstances of her mother's death?

Nadia’s first impression of Jack--“Is he always so cold?” How do you see their relationship developing?
I don't see Jack extending special hospitality to Nadia. Even his relationship with Sydney was slow-- Although he has always shown that his love for Sydney is strong and that he is willing to do whatever it takes to protect her, I hardly believe that his benevolence extends to the product of an affair of his traitor wife. I believe Jack is a good person, but... I don't really see him being uncharacteristically kind and warm to Nadia when he was distant with his own daughter. Do you?

Sydney is working hard at keeping her attitude towards Sloane cold and angry. Do you see this continuing indefinitely? Or do you think Sloane will wear her down? Do you think Sydney puts too much energy into maintaining this attitude?
:: ponders :: I don't see Sydney ever really being buddy-buddy with Sloane. I can see her letting her guard down a little, almost the same as she did with her mother. That is something that is very typical Sydney. However, I don't really see her being completely trusting of Sloane because she has no real motivation to. I think that this sort of attitude does take too much energy. Although the suspicion is warranted (Reminder: I would not trust this man), I think that the aggressive behavior and overdone hatred clouds her judgment and her ability to operate to her full capacity. It takes a lot of energy to hate someone. Here's my question for you: Do you think that there is some significance in the difference between Nadia's attitude towards Sloane and Sydney's? Both women have been betrayed and hurt by the man-- How would you justify the difference in their perceptions of the man? Simple writers' prerogatives?

OK, a question I missed last week. Do you think Jack really doesn't know why Irina wanted to put a hit out on Sydney or do you think he's still withholding? If so, why? The jig is already up for him, after all. (If you're in denial, you might want to skip this one.  ;))
I think that Jack most definitely does know what the deal was. And, the same as he thought he was protecting Sydney by allowing her to think that he simply had her mother eliminated, I think he thinks he's protecting her from "the awful truth."

Enjoyed your column, once again.
 
Intelligent, insightful column, as always. Thank you for sharing them with us.

Your question regarding if Jack knows/doesn't know the reason for Irina putting the hit out on Sydney or if he is withholding?-- I think he is withholding. I don't think the "sometimes a satisfying lie can be better than the awful truth" line was intended only for Nadia. He has to be holding something back from Sydney.
 
just some RANDOM thoughts...I apologize if they shouldnt be in this part of the forum... ;)
I do not think Weiss is the new Will-he would have to secretly have a thing for Sydney and not Nadia-yuk! I still want Will to be the New Will! If Nadia killed Jack, it would kill the show. I dont know if I could still care enough about the rest of the characters without Jack and Sydney's relationship(the two of them at war is still better than nothing!). moreover, I don't think Sydney's refusal to get the heck out of dodge with respect to bishop was anything more than her tenacity in getting the bad guy. It is REALLY hard to accept that Irina is dead-on an emotional level.(my mom died over Christmas so it was particularly painful to watch Sydney grieve throughout the premier) .
About Irina- I am curious-1)would fans REALLY refuse to accept another actress in the role? It seems to be a common device on soap operas when bringing back characters "from the dead" that the actress isnt always the original 2)is killing Irina off absolutely necessary-is it better to wrap that storyline up or keep us hoping for another year that maybe, just maybe, she will resurface?
The hit on Sydney by Irina is a convenient answer to season 3's secret document cliffhanger but it wasnt a satisfying one-as was the rambaldi device trade in for Sloane's position as Top Dog. I agree that much of what has gone on in the first 3 episodes is just housecleaning from a sloppy season 3 as well as Alias101 for the new class spilling over from watching Lost first. And, as much as I am aggravated that Nadia and Jack are having the kind of scenes Sydney and Jack used to have(back in the good ol days of season 1) and that Sloane and Jack are having that kindred "aww we have daughters " knowingness, I am excited that it IS season 4, after all. new episodes every week- not to mention-a fantastic opening credits piece-that reminds me of what the show is still really all about-SYDNEY. bring season 4 on!
 
I do not think Weiss is the new Will-he would have to secretly have a thing for Sydney and not Nadia-yuk! I still want Will to be the New Will!

I am so with you here...I miss Will, and personally, (sorry S/V shippers) with the damage the writers have done with the Syd/Vaughn relationship, I would much rather see Syd with Will.

If Nadia killed Jack, it would kill the show. I dont know if I could still care enough about the rest of the characters without Jack and Sydney's relationship(the two of them at war is still better than nothing!).

Again, I could not agree with you more. The Syd/Jack dynamic is my favorite aspect of the show. And though I am pouting about the status of their relationship now, it is better than nothing. I don't think there is a way JJ would willingly get rid of Victor Garber, he adds way too much to the show!


It is REALLY hard to accept that Irina is dead-on an emotional level.(my mom died over Christmas so it was particularly painful to watch Sydney grieve throughout the premier) .

Yeah I am having a hard time accepting that about Irina---in fact I am in total denial that she put a hit on Syd's life. :blush: I am really sorry about your Mom.

About Irina- I am curious-1)would fans REALLY refuse to accept another actress in the role? It seems to be a common device on soap operas when bringing back characters "from the dead" that the actress isnt always the original 2)is killing Irina off absolutely necessary-is it better to wrap that storyline up or keep us hoping for another year that maybe, just maybe, she will resurface?

Personally, as a huge fan of Lena and how well that role was done, I would not and could not accept another Irena. It has been hard enough to put up with Katya! -_-
 
freelancer7 said:
I am so with you here...I miss Will, and personally, (sorry S/V shippers) with the damage the writers have done with the Syd/Vaughn relationship, I would much rather see Syd with Will. 
Again, I could not agree with you more.  The Syd/Jack dynamic is my favorite aspect of the show.  And though I am pouting about the status of their relationship now, it is better than nothing.  I don't think there is a way JJ would willingly get rid of Victor Garber, he adds way too much to the show!
Yeah I am having a hard time accepting that about Irina---in fact I am in total denial that she put a hit on Syd's life. :blush:  I am really sorry about your Mom.
Personally, as a huge fan of Lena and how well that role was done, I would not and could not accept another Irena.  It has been hard enough to put up with Katya! -_-
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I miss Will, too, and wish that Syd would give him a chance. My guess is that she won't, that since she mentioned in season 3 that she believes she and V are soulmates. The whole show centers around Syd and Jack, so my guess there is that over the next couple of eps, they'll do their little getting-to-communicate-more dance. I, too, am in denial about Irina...here's to hoping that she's faked her death, and that we'll see her again in season 5!!! :smiley:
 
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