The Solo vs Group experience

[Valendros]

I know there hasn't been a lot of activity on this forum for a while, so I thought I'd share what may be a healthy discussion.

I see a lot of talk on Hero's Journey about solo play. This is certainly to be understood as all of their previous games have focused mainly on the solo experience, with some very small perks for grouping up. I read things in other MMO news that says certain games are beefing up their solo playability.

I also see games that have a heavily multi player aspect doing very well. Warhammer seems to be the hot game this year and much of it is very RvR. Most of the people I know that play WOW, say they have the most fun when they're in the PvP areas. It's my experience that whether I'm playing Gemstone, FFXI, LOTRO, or even Hearts on my computer, I have a much more enjoyable time when it's with somebody else.

However, there are those times that I don't have the time to group up and do a full-blown raid, or group.


I submit to you that it's not that people don't have the time to group and thus want solo play... I submit that people don't want to have to TRY to find a group too hard, and they don't want to disappoint the group when they leave. I submit that solo play is felgercarb, that people want to play with friends and strangers at all times.


Henry Ford said, "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse."
What if it's not that people WANT to have a rich, in-depth solo experience in an MMO. What if they just need a more detailed, better thought out, better executed grouping experience?

I left FFXI because for a game so based on grouping, its ability to find members for your group and ability to find groups for your character was severely lacking. I spent a majority of my time looking for a party, and trying to convince others I was worthwhile.

I left LOTRO because the game was so solo-centered it just wasn't fun. The questing systems of WOW, LOTRO, EQ2 etc are severely lacking, very unimaginative, never promote lasting group play and just not fun.


So what's the fix? How do you make grouping easier? How do you make grouping more enjoyable? How do you promote grouping WHILE retaining your individuality? How do you make grouping just as worthwhile for 15 minutes as you do for 12 hours? and most importantly, am I right? Is solo content only prized because players don't know how fun or easy grouping can be?

 

[Evran]

I submit that solo play is felgercarb, that people want to play with friends and strangers at all times.

For this person at least, this statement is definitely not correct. I play MMOs primarily as a solo player, and almost exclusively play MMOs as my source of gaming.

Perhaps if you modified that statement to "solo play is rewarding, but people still like to be able to chat with friends and brag about their solo exploits while still going at it alone," then it would fit me. I prefer playing solo, but its nice to have someone to talk to about it who doesn't give you blank/strange stares when you get all excited about the big quest you just finished or the cool weapon of dewm you just found. Having other people in game who are as obviously as invested in the game as you are is why I choose MMOs over single player games as my main method of gaming.

As to why I prefer to solo, if you're familiar with the Bartle types I am primarily an 'explorer' (EASK to be exact) so I like being able to take things at my own pace and take the time to delve into places and systems far longer than your average player. 'Socializer' is far enough down on my priorities that its not a major motivation for playing, but is high enough that I enjoy the interactions possible in MMOs from time to time. My choice of being a solo player has very little to do with what the grouping experience may or may not be like.

Dragonrealms is perfect for this style of play, but I've played many other MMOs as a primarily solo player. Of course, some were more successful than others based on how dependent on group play they were. Guild Wars is a wonderful solo-capable MMO and by far my current favourite out of the graphical variety. On the other extreme as you've noted, FFXI was the hardest to effectively solo out of the ones I played simply because most quests and tasks definitely required groups. I still managed to play it as a solo player, but it wasn't that great of an experience.

What if it's not that people WANT to have a rich, in-depth solo experience in an MMO. What if they just need a more detailed, better thought out, better executed grouping experience?

My vote is definitely cast for a rich, in-depth solo experience in an MMO.

I left LOTRO because the game was so solo-centered it just wasn't fun.

Hmmm... I may have to try that one out. I've heard good things about the Moria expansion.

Is solo content only prized because players don't know how fun or easy grouping can be?

I feel like I should ask the related question: Is grouping only prized because players don't know how fun or easy solo content can be?

The answer to both questions is an emphatic no.

Don't get me wrong, group play definitely has a place in MMOs. That's kind of a no-brainer. But by making it effectively required to access most content (as in FFXI) closes doors for other types of players like myself with differing interests. Good soloing and grouping experiences don't have to exist exclusively of eachother. Guild Wars is a perfect example of this, it being designed for and primarily motivated by group-based competitive gameplay. Yet solo, non-competitive play is not only possible, but is just as detailed and extensive as the competitive group play. It was certainly a pleasantly unexpected surprise when a PvP game turned out to be one of my favourite solo MMO experiences ever.

-Evran

 

[Chrisidon]

I have approximately three thoughts on this subject:

1. No game can cater to all play styles. The trick is to not be everything to everybody, but to pick a niche and stick to the niche (yes, I'm talking to you, Vanguard). However, this is complicated by:

a. Level cap. By having a level cap, there comes a point where pure mechanical advancement stops. Unless there is stuff to acquire (gear, spells, achievements) post-cap, that's the end, except for exploring all areas of the game and socializing.

b. Character limits. Because if you have a limit to the number of characters you can have (and this is a requirement for any game that doesn't want a database crash or a black market in character names) then, barring deletion of a character, there's a limited number of times you can run through the game to reach the previously mentioned cap.

These two factors seem to funnel games to a single point: item-centric, raid-based play. As a game ages, more characters stack up at the cap, and content design focuses around them. Look at TSO, the latest EverQuest II expansion. By artificially limiting the rate at which the shard armor can be acquired (a group-only, at-cap task, incidentally), the expansion on the whole is stretched out. By focusing on item centricity at cap, the lifespan of the expansion was extended, albeit artificially.

2. LFG (looking for group) utility within a game is often... ignored, if not by the designers (who usually insert-and-forget) then by the players. This is usually due to its position on a submenu, buried where players can't easily find it and with an interface that's hard to use. This needs to be put in the face of players, making it blindingly obvious that the best way to a group is the tool, not spamming chat channels.

3. I suppose this is more of a half-thought, but came about thinking about the first: dead content. Every time a game's level cap adjusts, the end-game content that requires more than a group gets only a cult following (like diehard Buffy the Vampire Slayer fans - but that was mostly for the benefit of my wife reading over my shoulder ) and eventually becomes impossible to drum up interest in. If only there were some way to keep this content in play.

 

[Valendros]

Level cap. By having a level cap, there comes a point where pure mechanical advancement stops. Unless there is stuff to acquire (gear, spells, achievements) post-cap, that's the end, except for exploring all areas of the game and socializing.

I really enjoyed FFXI's take on this problem. There was a level cap (75), but there were so many jobs you switch to, almost nobody had them all capped. There was still quite a bit of capped extras. And the time it took you to get one job to 75, you knew that job pretty well.

With a few improvements (LFG, LFP, Level pushdown/raise up, etc), I would say FFXI had the best job system I've ever seen.
Everybody was down for leveling SOME job they had. And if you wanted to do a mission or a post-cap thing, they were down for that too.

2. LFG (looking for group)

LFP is used a LOT more than devs tend to think about. I dunno why. This should be a HUGE part of development, with a lot of time to make sure your system is easy to use, VERY powerful, and as dynamic as anybody would want or need it to be.

3. I suppose this is more of a half-thought, but came about thinking about the first: dead content. Every time a game's level cap adjusts, the end-game content that requires more than a group gets only a cult following (like diehard Buffy the Vampire Slayer fans - but that was mostly for the benefit of my wife reading over my shoulder ) and eventually becomes impossible to drum up interest in. If only there were some way to keep this content in play.

100% agree.

 

[Jaraeth]

Rather than repeat what was already said... See Evran's post above. If you prefer to get psychoanalytic, just think that even in my real life, I am very much an introvert. I use up energy dealing with people, and I recharge my batteries, per se, by being alone. Reading, playing games, reading stuff on teh intertubes, working on geneology, web design or any of the other 2000 projects I have. But when I play a game, I rarely group.

My friends think it's that I don't want to deal with their rules or "follow". Maybe... but that really is on a case by case, group by group instance. Some people naturally irritate me, and their leadership style in general rubs me the wrong way. You can get this by joining PUG's, or even with well known friends (like my BF...)

I prefer solo play. I've even been told my MMO's I play (Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, World of Warcraft) are nothing more than IRC chat with a interactive graphical GUI. THAT, is much closer to how I feel and play games.

However, don't think I want a game that is solo-centric. I want a game that can possibly be both. I play WoW right now, but I do not, and cannot play end game content. It bores more and aggravates me that I *have* to play in groups of 10 to 25 to get phat lewts. So I will never have all the best stuff being a solo player. That's ok, I'm fine with it. Just let me hit level cap and keep giving me quests and tasks to complete while exploring.

 

[Valendros]

Rather than repeat what was already said... See Evran's post above. If you prefer to get psychoanalytic, just think that even in my real life, I am very much an introvert. I use up energy dealing with people, and I recharge my batteries, per se, by being alone. Reading, playing games, reading stuff on teh intertubes, working on geneology, web design or any of the other 2000 projects I have. But when I play a game, I rarely group.

My friends think it's that I don't want to deal with their rules or "follow". Maybe... but that really is on a case by case, group by group instance. Some people naturally irritate me, and their leadership style in general rubs me the wrong way. You can get this by joining PUG's, or even with well known friends (like my BF...)

I prefer solo play. I've even been told my MMO's I play (Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, World of Warcraft) are nothing more than IRC chat with a interactive graphical GUI. THAT, is much closer to how I feel and play games.

However, don't think I want a game that is solo-centric. I want a game that can possibly be both. I play WoW right now, but I do not, and cannot play end game content. It bores more and aggravates me that I *have* to play in groups of 10 to 25 to get phat lewts. So I will never have all the best stuff being a solo player. That's ok, I'm fine with it. Just let me hit level cap and keep giving me quests and tasks to complete while exploring.

I think that's exactly my point. Is it that you really are an introvert? or that you just haven't played a game that forced you to interact yet?

I thought I much preferred solo play as well until I played FFXI and was forced to group day in and day out. I made good friends and we played very well together. It was fun as hell, if we ever needed another, we grabbed one, and if they were too -----y or demanding, we kicked their asses out and found a replacement. Play FFXI past the terrible teens and get to about level 30 and then you'll see just how fun grouping can be.

Here's my point I think. I'm in IT, and the longer I've been in IT the longer I've realized a simple truth; people will do something the way they want, until you force them to do it a different(better) way. And most of the time if you force them into a better way, they get used to it, and they wonder why they did it the other way at all.

If there is a game that is equally good grouping or solo or if the benefits for grouping are a lot better, people will solo every time (see Gemstone IV). It has to be such a completely different experience that people will need to group (In FFXI you could solo, but you'd get maybe 1/4th the xp as any standard group).

It's when you force people, they learn the value of what you're trying to show them. The WOW clones don't get that yet. Even FFXI got it wrong when they started, but now that you can bust yourself down to a group level, you can group with whoever you want whenever you want. But you still need the group.


My original question stands; Is it that people don't like grouping, or they haven't played a game that got it right yet? (as AO, WOW, and DaoC certainly haven't)

 

[Gate]

Here's my point I think. I'm in IT, and the longer I've been in IT the longer I've realized a simple truth; people will do something the way they want, until you force them to do it a different(better) way.

There is a general assumption in much of modern human society that everything can and should be improved upon endlessly. If you are doing something the way you did a few years ago there is something wrong and it needs to be fixed. Technology and culture are the main focal point of this attitude. I personally don't see why, if someone likes doing something one way, they need to be "educated" to a "better" way. If they are happy and they aren't hurting anything, why force them into something different? Especially in something like this where it is purely for entertainment and has no bearing on safety, security, etc?

I played WoW with a very fun guild. A great group of friends who I loved to play with... on occasion. I am a loner in MMOs and I prefer it that way. I occasionally group, I enjoy it when I do and have had great positive experiences. Yet, 95% of the time, I want to quest alone. Is there something wrong with me? Or do I just have a different idea of fun than you do? And if so, what is wrong with that?

 

[Jaraeth]

I think that's exactly my point. Is it that you really are an introvert? or that you just haven't played a game that forced you to interact yet?

I thought I much preferred solo play as well until I played FFXI and was forced to group day in and day out. I made good friends and we played very well together. It was fun as hell, if we ever needed another, we grabbed one, and if they were too -----y or demanding, we kicked their asses out and found a replacement. Play FFXI past the terrible teens and get to about level 30 and then you'll see just how fun grouping can be.

Here's my point I think. I'm in IT, and the longer I've been in IT the longer I've realized a simple truth; people will do something the way they want, until you force them to do it a different(better) way. And most of the time if you force them into a better way, they get used to it, and they wonder why they did it the other way at all.

If there is a game that is equally good grouping or solo or if the benefits for grouping are a lot better, people will solo every time (see Gemstone IV). It has to be such a completely different experience that people will need to group (In FFXI you could solo, but you'd get maybe 1/4th the xp as any standard group).

It's when you force people, they learn the value of what you're trying to show them. The WOW clones don't get that yet. Even FFXI got it wrong when they started, but now that you can bust yourself down to a group level, you can group with whoever you want whenever you want. But you still need the group.


My original question stands; Is it that people don't like grouping, or they haven't played a game that got it right yet? (as AO, WOW, and DaoC certainly haven't)

Force me to group, and I'll quit the game. I don't like grouping, and it is that simple.

Dark Age of Camelot I grouped, when I felt like taking my guildies through a run of Darkness Falls, or some power leveling of lower level guildies. It is not that I refuse altogether to group, it is simply, 90% of the time, I do not want to group. I will chat people's ears off, make friends, and maybe group for 5-10 minutes, but then I'm done. Let me out to do some solo stuff, or /quit (/camp).


BTW, the IT reference I know firsthand, I've been in the IT industry for 15 years, and I'm currently a Manager of Systems Administration for a hosting company in Phoenix. I like the guys I work with, we get together and have group team-building exercises, and then I go home exhausted and wound up in a knot in need of quiet time. It happens. It also happens that some people truly do not want to group.

 

[Sherri_CinVin]

I agree with Jaraeth, I hate being forced to group just to get items and things
With my work schedule it's hard to make time to join groups.
I like to explore and gather and make things, meet new people and yak
But there is time when I like to go hunt and kill things and lvl up and get items that I may sell for money or my own use.
To get the good items it seems you have to pay through the nose to get them if you don't do the group things to get them yourself, and that sucks.
I like to group with my friends if I can but most are in bed when I get to play other than on weekends, I find most times I group with people I don't know, don't know how I play and expect you to play the way they do and if you don't Well all they do is -----, so I don't group much
So I hope that HJ has some quests that give good loot for solo players too

 

[Valendros]

Every negative comment toward grouping I've heard so far have been poor game design, not for grouping in general.

 

[Evran]

My original question stands; Is it that people don't like grouping, or they haven't played a game that got it right yet? (as AO, WOW, and DaoC certainly haven't)

It depends on the person. There are people who simply don't like grouping. Jaraeth hit in on the head and his comment applies equally to me:

I use up energy dealing with people, and I recharge my batteries, per se, by being alone.

Why would I spend my recreational time doing something that exhausts my physical, mental and emotional stores? Force me to group and I say goodbye to the game since it no longer is providing me a relaxing environment in which to spend my leisure time.

Is it that you really are an introvert?

It sounds like you have some doubt that people would actually seek out being alone simply for the sake of being alone. Trust me, there are those of us for whom it is necessary to have time spent by ourselves in order to recharge. If an Extrovert were to say they don't group in a game, then I'd be the first to go looking into grouping design to find fault. However, an Introvert saying they don't group much in a game is just an Introvert being an Introvert and says absolutely nothing about the strengths or weaknesses of a game's grouping system.

Every negative comment toward grouping I've heard so far have been poor game design, not for grouping in general.

Read again. There are several comments that have nothing whatsoever to do with game design among the several that do. See my quote of Jaraeth above for one such example.

-Evran

 

[Valendros]

I have read all the comments. And I still say it's game design, not the drive to work alone.

I do agree that sometimes you just want to be alone. But a majority of the time, you will have a more enjoyable time if you are with people you like. Myself personally, the days I'm interacting with my friends I have a vastly more enjoyable night than when I'm alone. The problem is that most games aren't designed properly for you to group with the people you like.

Most games that force you to group, eventually force you to group with strangers. This can be good, it can introduce you to another cool person you want to hang out with. But more often that not, it's introducing you to brats and jerks. A group with even one brat in it, can ruin your night (and ruin your opinion of grouping in general). Well... If you made it easier to group with friends (regardless of level), you would have to group with the jerks less often, even never and your opinion of grouping in general would be different.


The best way to do this, is to give real, concrete advantages to grouping on the order of 200% effectiveness in anything you're doing by being in a group. And to design the game such that it will allow you to group with those you want to, not those you're forced to.

 

[HJ-Diviana]

At the same time though, I still wouldn't group. I like the freedom to make my own choices.

Today in DR I was hunting with someone, and hunting things I wouldn't normally be able to on my own, but I still felt like I didn't have the ability to decide what I wanted to train. I had a terrible urge to go do other things, and though I didn't, I realized I really do not like any type of groups.

When I played WoW I never grouped ONCE. EVER. I just don't like it, and though I didn't play for long (not much holds my attention), I know grouping is something I just don't like.

 

[Valendros]

At the same time though, I still wouldn't group. I like the freedom to make my own choices.

Today in DR I was hunting with someone, and hunting things I wouldn't normally be able to on my own, but I still felt like I didn't have the ability to decide what I wanted to train. I had a terrible urge to go do other things, and though I didn't, I realized I really do not like any type of groups.

When I played WoW I never grouped ONCE. EVER. I just don't like it, and though I didn't play for long (not much holds my attention), I know grouping is something I just don't like.

Game design, and Game design.

 

[Evran]

I do agree that sometimes you just want to be alone. But a majority of the time, you will have a more enjoyable time if you are with people you like. Myself personally, the days I'm interacting with my friends I have a vastly more enjoyable night than when I'm alone.

Then you are not understanding what it truly means to be an introvert. Its not just sometimes. To borrow your phrasing... The majority of the time I will have a more enjoyable time if I am spending it alone. The occasional interaction with friends is welcome, but extended interaction even with best friends is very quickly draining. I am getting the feeling that this is a case of an extrovert not being able to understand an introvert's motivations, desires and needs. I know that from my point of view, an extrovert's need to be interacting with people most of the time can seem almost alien in its strangeness.

The best way to do this, is to give real, concrete advantages to grouping on the order of 200% effectiveness in anything you're doing by being in a group. And to design the game such that it will allow you to group with those you want to, not those you're forced to.

That 95% of games already provide much greater effectiveness to groups over solo play aside, this will do absolutely nothing to make me prefer to group. I just prefer playing alone. Plain and simple. See my previous posts as to why. What you suggest in the above quote will benefit those that do like grouping and provide them with further incentive to do so. I agree with you on that. But nothing is going to ever make me and my fellow introverts enjoy grouping more than going at it solo. Its just not our nature.

Your question and desired discussion is 100% valid and applicable when considering people that do want to group, but has little merit when applied to to people that have little desire to do so. Both types of people do exist and blanket statements like the ones you made in your original post don't even come close to covering all of them and simply serve to cut people out of the picture. This is the point I am trying to make.

-Evran

 

[Silverblade]

I haveMost games that force you to group, eventually force you to group with strangers. This can be good, it can introduce you to another cool person you want to hang out with. But more often that not, it's introducing you to brats and jerks. A group with even one brat in it, can ruin your night (and ruin your opinion of grouping in general). Well... If you made it easier to group with friends (regardless of level), you would have to group with the jerks less often, even never and your opinion of grouping in general would be different.

The best way to do this, is to give real, concrete advantages to grouping on the order of 200% effectiveness in anything you're doing by being in a group. And to design the game such that it will allow you to group with those you want to, not those you're forced to.

City of Heroes already made levels irrelevant. You can exemplar down or sidekick up so level differences don't matter. In that game, there are lots of pugs because of it. EQ2 learned from CoH and also allows higher level characters to mentor or something like that. CoH had a great design and I really do expect more MMOs in the future to use this system. There's no reason not to.

Again, in some ways MMOs are making grouping players more effective by providing epic items for dungeons and instances. WoW epics are vastly more powerful than the stuff you get solo.

And if a game designer makes the rewards that different, they are essentially forcing grouping. 200% is too steep a penalty for those who solo because I think the real reason is time. Most players solo because they don't have the time to spend hours upon hours playing a MMO in one sitting.

Designers have to find a way to reward 1-2 hour per session players so they can eventually keep up with the hardcore 5-10+ hour per session players.

 

[Valendros]

My whole point was that the 200% would greatly encourage grouping and discourage soloing.

You can solo to level cap, but it'll take you twice as long.

Only something that steep will get groups going.


And that's exactly what I'm saying. It's on designers to be innovative, If I had all the answers I'd be the designer. I'm just trying to convey a problem that I believe exists with the way most games are set up at the moment. Some company is going to come along and get it right, and I really hope it's Simu. I honestly don't believe this thing where you can come up to a higher level of your friend is going to work very well. I also think the mentor system of EQ2 really sucks. As does the CoH model. The current FFXI model is looking promising, and honestly almost has me re-opening my account with them.

Whichever company figures out a way to seed groups the best (groups of friends, that can stick together, regardless of level), will win the market.

 

[Performer]

I like the freedom to make my own choices.

Today in DR I was hunting with someone, ... but I still felt like I didn't have the ability to decide what I wanted to train. I had a terrible urge to go do other things...

Exactly. That's the Mainreason why i group only very rarely: Entering a Group is a Commitment. You're forced to follow Groupdecisions, you're expected to behave and communicate in a certain Way, you're taking up some Responsibility for the Others, ... you're giving up Control.

I do enjoy the social Aspect of MMOs, even though i'm quite introverted, but only as far as i can retain my Independence. Which means that i only join social Gatherings (-> Roleplay), and not do Groupcontent. Which is kind of a Pity, because i'm sure much of the Groupcontent out there is rather well done and worth beeing experienced.

So i do have to agree with Valendros that there's a Gameplayproblem present. I do not agree that nerfing Soloplay will even remotely fix it, though.

I think the Problem is (as i've already posted somewhere around) that MMOs are designed to be played against the other Players (or Groups), even in PvE. It's always me (or us) competing over Content against the Rest. Any kind of Cooperation outside of Groups (meaing "without Commitment") is actually discouraged by Punishments (lost XP, Loot or Questcredit).
That's why i applaud the Idea of public Quests. I have no Clue wether they're well executed in Warhammer Online, nor if it even works. But it does allow to just drop into a Multiplayerendeavor without beeing forced any Way, and also to drop out whenever i please, without harming anyones Experience.

 

[Silverblade]

My whole point was that the 200% would greatly encourage grouping and discourage soloing.

You can solo to level cap, but it'll take you twice as long.

Only something that steep will get groups going.


And that's exactly what I'm saying. It's on designers to be innovative, If I had all the answers I'd be the designer. I'm just trying to convey a problem that I believe exists with the way most games are set up at the moment. Some company is going to come along and get it right, and I really hope it's Simu. I honestly don't believe this thing where you can come up to a higher level of your friend is going to work very well. I also think the mentor system of EQ2 really sucks. As does the CoH model. The current FFXI model is looking promising, and honestly almost has me re-opening my account with them.

Whichever company figures out a way to seed groups the best (groups of friends, that can stick together, regardless of level), will win the market.

Creating a major difference in leveling speed for groupers and soloers will only do one thing in this current MMO market: you will push away soloers from your game. I think the devs fully understand they want more groups but they also know financially, they have to cater to soloers because they represent enough of the market share to make a difference.

No offense Valendros because you did bring up a good debate but I think you are examining this issue too personally, assuming your opinion is the best way to develop a game.

When CoH first came out with the sidekick system, it was almost considered revolutionary. A lot of people loved it. You may not like it but it really reduced a lot of the barriers to grouping.

In the same token, there are tons who HATE FFXI with it's incredibly painful grinds and forced grouping. You seem to enjoy it. Power to you but FFXI is no longer a major player in the western market. WoW changed the landscape. MMOs have to make soloing a viable and reasonable form of leveling and playing the game.

And WoW has won the market but it promotes soloing, you can PUG groups all you want except for maybe the toughest raids and levels are a huge factor in the game.

I'm just saying maybe the issue needs to be viewed more objectively. Soloing is here to stay. The challenge is to make grouping and soloing viable together.

And honestly, even though there are complaints that the content has become more easy, I do believe Blizzard made a wise decision with instances in WotLK. They still require groups but because the instances only take an hour or so with a PUG, soloers are grouping up for them.

 

[Silverblade]

I think the Problem is (as i've already posted somewhere around) that MMOs are designed to be played against the other Players (or Groups), even in PvE. It's always me (or us) competing over Content against the Rest. Any kind of Cooperation outside of Groups (meaing "without Commitment") is actually discouraged by Punishments (lost XP, Loot or Questcredit).
That's why i applaud the Idea of public Quests. I have no Clue wether they're well executed in Warhammer Online, nor if it even works. But it does allow to just drop into a Multiplayerendeavor without beeing forced any Way, and also to drop out whenever i please, without harming anyones Experience.

PQs worked for like the first 10 levels and then people just stopped doing them. Why? Forced grouping. The final boss is essentially a raid boss so there has to be a lot of folks engaging it or the PQ fails and resets.

It looks good in theory but in execution, it wasn't as impressive. Maybe if they tweak it a bit it can work. Also, it didn't help that WAR is focused on PvP and PQs are PvE. Maybe if PvE centric games like LotRO or WoW used PQs they might find better results.