What are your thoughts of the 2012 scenario

linrobinson

Your Ultimate Destiny
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Then there is one's own opinion, which can obviously be worth even less. Especially when militantly uninformed.

But it's REALLY nice of you to give people permission to do i.e. fiction. What a sport.
 

Anthony G Williams

Greybeard
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Then there is one's own opinion, which can obviously be worth even less. Especially when militantly uninformed.
Definitely. The militantly uniformed are a real pain in the rear to me.

Talking of informing people, I can recommend for you an excellent book, How We Know What Isn't So by Thomas Gilovich. I reviewed it on my blog here: http://sciencefictionfantasy.blogspot.com/2008/08/how-we-know-what-isnt-so-by-thomas.html

An extract:

The book includes a couple of quotes from Francis Bacon, the 16th/17th century philosopher:

"The human understanding supposes a greater degree of order and equality in things than it really finds; and although many things in nature be sui generis and most irregular, will yet invest parallels and conjugates and relatives where no such thing is." Which is to say in simpler modern language, that we tend to see patterns and relationships where none exist.

and:

"…all superstition is much the same whether it be that of astrology, dreams, omens, retributive judgment, or the like…[in that] the deluded believers observe events which are fulfilled, but neglect or pass over their failure, though it be much more common."
 

linrobinson

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The militantly uniformed are a real pain in the rear to me.
I wouldn't doubt it. You've got one sitting right on your ***.

How do you feel about non-scientists coming all unglued about thoughts posted in a thread calling for thoughts and then swooning over the inclusion of systems they don't understand, while sidestepping all references to physics and contemporary scientific thought about the nature of time?

You know, people just looking for a place to stand where they can beleive themselves on some higher plain than others, whether or not they really have anything to contribute?

Where does that pain grab you?
 

linrobinson

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If you have anything to say about 2012, or any thoughts on it other than "I don't allow myself to think about it", why not toss them in here instead of doing such a pitiful job of thought policing?

They might be interesting. Or might get you laughed at.

Oh, that occurred to you, didn't it?
 

painkiller64

Avoid A Void
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Sep 15, 2006
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kansas
WOW, i didnt expect this kind of response from anyone. it is great to read all this. thanks to all for writing here.

BTW. i will say one thing that i have noticed here and in other threads. there is alot of quotations from wikipedia. as miss robinson pointed out...
But this thread asked for thoughts on the subject, and there is thinking on it that goes way beyond and Nostradamus or bearded nut on the street with an end is nigh sign.

i read wikipedia and watch the history channel and read just about anything to learn something, yet i asked for your ideas not the ones quoted from other sources. it is great to use those sources if not asked "what is your thoughts...".

we are not a mindless society, we can think for ourselves so lets do it.

so again i do thank you all for all your thoughts. great hearing from you all.
 

Anthony G Williams

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I wouldn't doubt it. You've got one sitting right on your ***.
Oh, that's where you are!

How do you feel about non-scientists coming all unglued about thoughts posted in a thread calling for thoughts and then swooning over the inclusion of systems they don't understand, while sidestepping all references to physics and contemporary scientific thought about the nature of time?

You know, people just looking for a place to stand where they can beleive themselves on some higher plain than others, whether or not they really have anything to contribute?

Where does that pain grab you?

If you have anything to say about 2012, or any thoughts on it other than "I don't allow myself to think about it", why not toss them in here instead of doing such a pitiful job of thought policing?

They might be interesting. Or might get you laughed at.

Oh, that occurred to you, didn't it?
Oh dear, oh dear, you're throwing your dummy out of the pram again.

I expressed my thoughts very clearly:

"Given that the many "end of the world" predictions in various faiths have had a really impressive 100% record (of being wrong), I am baffled as to why anyone should give a moment's thought to them."

and:

"A religious belief in "the end of the world" has no objective rationale behind it, it's just superstition."

and:

"we tend to see patterns and relationships where none exist"

and:

"The moment that a paper providing objective evidence for his claims gets accepted by a reputable science journal, I will take notice. Until then, he just another of the vast multitude of BS merchants with which humanity is constantly plagued."

I also pointed out that the end of the world forecast was not a Mayan idea, but a "New Age belief, first forecast by José Argüelles", and that the view of a serious professional expert on the Maya, who wasn't trying to plug any mushroom-induced philosophies was:

"For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle," says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. in Crystal River, Florida. To render December 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."

Clear enough?

There are those notions that are worth considering seriously and those which are not. The "end of the world in 2012" scenario is firmly in the latter category.
 

linrobinson

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I expressed my thoughts very clearly:
I get the impression you think that, but unfortunately, it ain't so. You really aren't saying anything, just denying everything.

And no, it's not very clear. You don't seem to know diddly about quantum physics and time theory. Which I keep mentioning, but you keep screaming about witches and goblins.

The "end of the world in 2012"
That's a good example right there--there are ways to look at this other than "end of the world". Even Mes America mentioned other scenarios, but it all escapes you, doesn't it?

There is plenty to discuss on this matter, but you're not up to it. There's no shame in that.

There is shame in just stamping your feet and repeating the same drivel over an over, whether it has anything to do with it or not. But I seem to recall from other forums that you are like that. And will keep gnawing away at this forever without stating anything other than "no, no, can't be" (And trying to warp it around to military history, if memory serves.)

You are on a SCIENCE FICTION forum, hambo. Try jump-starting your imagination, read a little. It's FUN!



By the way, pain killer, it's MISTER Robinson, not Miss. Actually, Captain or Señor will do. :)
 

painkiller64

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kansas
my apologizes sir for calling you miss. and you are right this is a sci fi forum and mr williams i did see your "thought" when i first read your post. i have pulled my dummy back in the pram but sad to say he agrees that witches and goblins suffocate in space yet i have noted your thoughts and do appreciate them and look forward to further debates when i find another noteworthy subject to start here.
 

linrobinson

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YOU are the one who can't get their head out of the "doomsday" BS, Williams. I've mentioned that, but you don't seem to big on reading comp. do you.

Ms. Noble has absolutely NO way of knowing it these cycle dates were parties are whatever. You realize the length of time we're talking about, right? No, probably not. You're to busy screaming about thing nobody here is concerned with but you.

And, like I said, just reposting the same drivel over and over because you can't generate any orignal creative thought. And yet, even with that handicap, here you are, contributing your "thoughts of 2012". Wotta guy.


I think the end of the world would be Nuclear Winter and Global Warming, but they'll end up canceling each other out
LOL I love it!



How about this, painkiller. And this is something that I've been tipped on and discussed, but won't get into anything serious because I don't want Williams to blow out his Depends.
So let's call it..... oh, speculation...

I'm sure you're aware that the ionosphere "drives" or at very least has been proven to be influential on mental process, particularly higher ones. And that sunspot cycles have been proven (and disproven, and proven ,etc) to affect the whole hookup.

There is also fossil magnetism. Cool thing to look into if you haven't already. Basicaly little debris drifting to the ocean floor, which has a way of turning up later in weird places as sedmentary and metamorphic rock, is affected by the magnetic field. Geologists have reported what looks like about a 20,000 year cycle (and I could be fuzzy on that because I haven't read any of this stuff for a long time). It's kind of like the electromagnet known as Earth is AC, not DC, and has a frequency.

Now... how would it affect you if the magnetic field of the earth reversed?
One possible answer--and nobody knows for sure--is: not at all.

But what if it pretty much disrupted your higher mentation? Like an acid trip? Which, I'll say on my own authority as an experimenter and theorist, is basically deconditioning. I've heard explanations (from some of the leading experts on this felgercarb, if there really is such a thing--and if there is, McKenna would CERTAINLY be one and so would John Lilly) that psychedelics lower the "voltage" necessary for neural transmission, thus dismissing thresholding...and neural thresholding is pretty much what your whole personality and a lot of your learning to do anything more complicated that what a newborn can do is composed of. Trust me on that.

So, yeah, what I'm leading up to is, the whole world goes on a trip. A MAJOR one, of indeterminate proportions and scope.
Well, one thing I'd predict from that scenario... people who are experienced with psychedelics are going to be the first ones to get their **** together and start to maintain.
Possibly like, they're having a blast and everybody else is falling to pieces.
A rapture situation.
The sort of thing that could topple a complicated civilization.

Then a new cycle starts, with a new genesis, a new crop of priests leading the blind.

How do you like it?



(No harm on the "Miss" when you're name's Lin you get used to it. Did you figure out who is the dummy and who is the bath water? I still a bit hazy on that. But at least I know who's sitting on my own ***.)
 

painkiller64

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kansas
yes i have heard of fossil magnetism, have read a little on it. i like to keep myself open minded when it comes to all things. i will say that everyones thoughts and expressions are of value to me....probably why i can write a book, too busy reading everyone elses work, lol.

to me when 12/21/12 gets here that will be the day. it doesnt matter if you boil a potatoe in a pot for an hour or microwave it for 5 minutes. you get the same thing.

anyway, back to reality, to me it will be a more scientific view when that day comes. you know the movie Contact a few years ago and book openend my eyes and ears to how people struggle with what they really dont know about. what i am saying is, the more hype about this the past few years is just creating a disorder to the order.
 

Anthony G Williams

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UK
I get the impression you think that, but unfortunately, it ain't so. You really aren't saying anything, just denying everything.
How revealing - people "aren't saying anything" unless they agree with you that it's a serious issue!

And no, it's not very clear. You don't seem to know diddly about quantum physics and time theory. Which I keep mentioning, but you keep screaming about witches and goblins.
Witches? Goblins? Oh boy, this is getting hilarious. Not just the dummy out of the pram but the toys, the cover, and yourself as well it seems.

You are on a SCIENCE FICTION forum, hambo. Try jump-starting your imagination, read a little. It's FUN!
Oh it's FICTION you're talking about, is it? Why didn't you say so? I'm quite happy to read all sorts of nonsense in fiction, as long as it's entertaining - but I never get fiction confused with reality. And there was I thinking that you were arguing that these fictional ideas should be taken seriously! :ROFLMAO:
 

linrobinson

Your Ultimate Destiny
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How revealing - people "aren't saying anything" unless they agree with you that it's a serious issue!
You didn't understand what I was saying (now there's a surprise). I don't really think I'm asking for any agreement here, just putting out some thoughts.
"Not saying anything" means you haven't said anything. You haven't really put out any thoughts, just quoted others and said, "No, no, no, I don't know what you mean, but I no it's just no, no, no."

Instead of replying to any of my comments on physics you keep yelping about mystical stuff. That's what I mean by "witches" and in "witch hunts"...if you aren't familiar witht the term, just ask and somebody will explain it.
You're raving against your own conceptions, is what I'm saying. Knowing that you will not understand, just bounce back with more drivel like this that indicates you didn't get it.

SCIENCE FICTION.... yes, actually the forum is called "Cool Science Fiction". Duuuuuh.
Again, it's WONDERFUL that you give you permission to discuss, read or write fiction.

This thread however, is about sharing thoughts on 2012. And you have not followed the discussion at all. There have been scientific points raised. I mentioned at the time that you obviously don't have a clue about them. (Search back) Then you prove it by not touching them, just ranting about how you only talk about science. After declining to do so, just trying to scramble around and not look like a tool.
Unsuccessfully.
 

screenersam

This is news, Vincenzo, NEWS!
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Jan 30, 2009
Location
Maryland
to me when 12/21/12 gets here that will be the day. it doesnt matter if you boil a potato in a pot for an hour or microwave it for 5 minutes. you get the same thing.

QUOTE]

I remember waking up on 01/01/2000 and first thing I did was turn on the radio and make sure western society was still functioning. it was. whew!

reading you guys reminds me of a college administrator I knew describing a faculty meeting; "They were telling each other to go to hell, but they were saying it all educated."

let me riddle you this; do we believe mankind/society is open-ended, cyclical, or linear, with a major change/paradigm shift coming relatively soon, say, in this generation?
thanks for tolerating my semi-informed naivete!!!(y)
 

Kevin

Code Monkey
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{Kevin needs to prepare a major stash of munchies for the upcoming mind trip in 2012! :eek: }
 

linrobinson

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thanks for tolerating my semi-informed naivete!!!
It's refreshing after the uninformed certainty.

"Beleive" is a strong word, but I don't think the idea of rise/fall cycles in human events to be too far-fetched. In fact, there is all this evidence of civilizations peaking and falling apart. Etc. The fact that attempts to organize them taper off into wildness doesn't mean they aren't there.

There are lots of cycles in human history that can be observed, but not really accounted for. Power of empire moving West is one. No reason for it, but you can chart it out. And it's looking like China is getting set to be the next power center as soon as whatever energy it is builds up the quantum capacity to jump the Pacific.

There are also some odd things like the period in which thre world's three main religous systems all got Messiahs who altered their primitive tribal myths into much more sophisticated thought systems that lasted for millenia: Vendanta to Buddhism, Judaism to Christianity, Arab tribalism to Islam.
And before anybody decides that isn't important, note that ideologies replaced war over land and resources and the current struggles are very much involved with religious motivation: which has a way of overriding economy, politics, and sanity in world events.

Nobody can really disprove of dismiss the role of mental funtioning in all this. What we know of pyschology doesn't even qualify as a science at this point, but has produced a certain amount of data.

For that matter, some of this stuff can be self-fulfilling. The turn of millenia have often been associated with panic and collapse in Western societies. Economies are based on almost nothing but confidence and faith.

There are a lot of variables batting around this stuff. It's hard to come up with a complete rational scenario. But too easy to just write it all off unexamined.
 

awesomename

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swpa
I don't believe anything will happen. Y2K made me pretty leery of apocalypses, though I do recall some starbucks labels with 1900 printed on them.

If something catastrophic were to happen, I don't know how you could prepare for something so unprecedented. If we were unfortunate enough to go through another toba extinction, nothing short of a lifetime supply of nonperishable food would come close to helping you.
 
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Seriously, I really do pray for a zombie apocalypse. If I knew in 2012 that the world was going to end/burn/be covered in pickles, then I would want the undead to roam. And of course, be one of the few alive to destroy such things, with the other humans being from the latest issue of Playboy® :P ;)
 

painkiller64

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kansas
Oh it's FICTION you're talking about, is it? Why didn't you say so? I'm quite happy to read all sorts of nonsense in fiction, as long as it's entertaining - but I never get fiction confused with reality. And there was I thinking that you were arguing that these fictional ideas should be taken seriously!
sir, it is all fiction till reality sets in. have you had your reality check today? i am appalled that you seriously have skirted the whole issue here. i do hope that in a earlier life you were not a lemming. i have taken it all seriously, that is why i posted this thread. i am not an idle child that is asking a dumb question here.

PS Fossil magnetism shouldn't be taken seriously?
i havent taken it that serious to be ignorant enough to create a thread about the "thoughts" of that. LOL

I remember waking up on 01/01/2000 and first thing I did was turn on the radio and make sure western society was still functioning. it was. whew!

reading you guys reminds me of a college administrator I knew describing a faculty meeting; "They were telling each other to go to hell, but they were saying it all educated."

let me riddle you this; do we believe mankind/society is open-ended, cyclical, or linear, with a major change/paradigm shift coming relatively soon, say, in this generation?
thanks for tolerating my semi-informed naivete!!!(y)
i was working the night that 1/1/00 came around. i worked at a call center with 700 people working. at midnight someone turned off the lights and the whole place cleared out faster than light. we all laughed at them for doing that since no other lights were off anywhere else. the power of the mind my friend. back in the eighties i used to say that when they would drop the bomb i was just going to sit on my porch with a beer and watch the world fry. same kind of thing with 2012.
and you are not naive btw.

i think they are cyclic in thoughts. one person here is linear i believe.

{Kevin needs to prepare a major stash of munchies for the upcoming mind trip in 2012! :eek: }
i will bring the cheetos and mountain dew.

I don't believe anything will happen. Y2K made me pretty leery of apocalypses, though I do recall some starbucks labels with 1900 printed on them.
i am afraid that was the price of the coffee. LOL

Seriously, I really do pray for a zombie apocalypse. If I knew in 2012 that the world was going to end/burn/be covered in pickles, then I would want the undead to roam. And of course, be one of the few alive to destroy such things, with the other humans being from the latest issue of Playboy® :P ;)
WOOHOO...bring on the zombies. i will be ready. and lets make a movie.
 
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