Who Killed the Electric Car?

Xhar

Cadet
Joined
May 3, 2006
By the way, the reason I'm back in school at my age for an electrical engineering degree is the very problem discussed in this thread. In other words, I dont just bitch about it, I am trying to accomplish something as well by researching other sources of energy.

Hopefully this helps to explain why I am so outspoken on this subject.

Xhar
 

deathmetal

Cadet
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Location
Wisconsin
Originally posted by Foxeye+May 22 2006, 03:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Foxeye @ May 22 2006, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-frostydf2@May 22 2006, 07:34 PM

Some people enjoy racing, and having a fun car to drive around in. I for one am putting out $150 a month in GAS ALONE. If I can afford to put that gas into my Blazer, then I should have the right to drive around as much as I please. Thats my opinion.
If the price of gasoline included the cost to repair the environmental damage done by fuel emissions, then I'd say do what you want.

But the truth is that no one is paying for that, so we all share the cost in the long run. It's telling me that my children have to suffer an uglier, less healthy world because someone else wanted to drive a fast car. And I'm not supposed to be angry about that?

Now if there was some way to make a fast car that wasn't also a gas guzzler...or a way to make people also pay for the environmental damage they cause....then do whatever the heck you like with it. As long as it doesn't harm anyone else, it's your own business what you do for fun.


(<--- one of those "smug hybrid car drivers" since 2001, though I'd prefer a hydrogen cell car) [/b][/quote]
Sorry but I'm going to buy what I want with the money that I work hard for. If seeing someone driving a fast car actually makes you angry, you have problems. Mind your own business, and let people enjoy the things they work for.

Trust me, if there were alternatives to gasoline out there, I'd have no problem moving to them. As it is right now hybrid cars are expensive, and there are no hybrid cars I like and am willing to spend MY money on. Also my fast car doesn't pollute any more than any other modern gasoline powered car, emissions controls have come a long way over the years. Might use a bit more gas but that is about it.
 

Xhar

Cadet
Joined
May 3, 2006
Originally posted by deathmetal@May 22 2006, 09:28 PM

Trust me, if there were alternatives to gasoline out there, I'd have no problem moving to them. As it is right now hybrid cars are expensive, and there are no hybrid cars I like and am willing to spend MY money on. Also my fast car doesn't pollute any more than any other modern gasoline powered car, emissions controls have come a long way over the years. Might use a bit more gas but that is about it.
First off, you just proved my point. IF there were other choices available, people would use them.

Secondly, the environment IS everyones business (or at least should be), because it will be around a hell of a lot longer than your car or your ego. The only question is, what shape it is in.

And lastly, more fossil fuel burned=more pollution.

I will say it again, I am NOT telling YOU what YOU should drive, I am saying people should have a free choice as to what technologies are available for consumption. As the market exists now, it is controlled by the supliers, not the consumers. Are you saying that is the way it should be just to support your hobby?

I would like to see someone point out a GOOD reason for the continuing use of Oil based fossil fuels in the "family vehicle" market besides "its fun" or other selfish reasons.

Xhar
 

Foxeye

Cadet
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Originally posted by deathmetal@May 22 2006, 09:28 PM

Sorry but I'm going to buy what I want with the money that I work hard for. If seeing someone driving a fast car actually makes you angry, you have problems. Mind your own business, and let people enjoy the things they work for.
I think you misunderstood my post.

I'll say again, if your fast car doesn't pollute any more than any other gasoline powered car and if your fast car doesn't have horrific gas mileage, then I don't give a rats arse. I really don't.

However, if your hobby hurts me, then I *will* care.

If it were my hobby to steal other people's money out of their bank accounts, would it be OK for me to empty your bank account? No? But...what if it's what I enjoy and I worked hard to hack the system?! What business is it of yours how I spend my free time? Oh, right, because taking your money hurts you. Just like taking more than a needful share of finite resources and adding to pollution harms me. (Now, if you don't believe that pollution is harmful and you believe that we'll never run out of fuel, that's a separate conversion.)

Does that make sense?

So if, and I say if, your hobby involves operating a piece of machinery that belches out harmful pollutants and consumes vast quantities of resources that others might need, then it's my business. If it doesn't (and I don't know much about the different sorts of cars available nowadays), then it's all cool. Really.
 

deathmetal

Cadet
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Location
Wisconsin
First off, you just proved my point. IF there were other choices available, people would use them.
You are correct. Not much of a choice is there?

Secondly, the environment IS everyones business (or at least should be), because it will be around a hell of a lot longer than your car or your ego. The only question is, what shape it is in.
Why are you guys acting like my car is the fastest most polluting thing on Earth? Less than 300 hp is not alot these days.

And lastly, more fossil fuel burned=more pollution.
I get like around 24 mpg highway, that is not bad. Look at all the trucks out there that are alot worse.

I will say it again, I am NOT telling YOU what YOU should drive, I am saying people should have a free choice as to what technologies are available for consumption. As the market exists now, it is controlled by the supliers, not the consumers. Are you saying that is the way it should be just to support your hobby?
When did I say that? I recall saying:
"Trust me, if there were alternatives to gasoline out there, I'd have no problem moving to them. As it is right now hybrid cars are expensive, and there are no hybrid cars I like and am willing to spend MY money on."
 

Foxeye

Cadet
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Originally posted by deathmetal@May 22 2006, 09:51 PM
Why are you guys acting like my car is the fastest most polluting thing on Earth? Less than 300 hp is not alot these days.
I was doing no such thing. :P I did not point at you and say "Deathmetal's car is teh suk", because I know that not all flashy/fast/muscle cars have horrid emissions, and I have no idea which sort you have.

I get like around 24 mpg highway, that is not bad. Look at all the trucks out there that are alot worse.
That's pretty much the same as most sedans nowadays, isn't it? Yeah, it's ok. could be better, but could be a LOT worse. It's not the sort of mileage that makes me grind my teeth.
 

Xhar

Cadet
Joined
May 3, 2006
Originally posted by deathmetal@May 22 2006, 09:28 PM

Sorry but I'm going to buy what I want with the money that I work hard for. If seeing someone driving a fast car actually makes you angry, you have problems. Mind your own business, and let people enjoy the things they work for.
No offence, this is the part I thought seemed a bit defensive, but that could have been my perception.

Secondly, I didnt mean to imply your car is the fastest, most polluting car out there, but in my oppinion it sure as hell doesnt help. The word "your" in the sentence you quoted was subjective, not denotive, and was not directed at you.

Third, I am refering, as I stated specificly, to the "family market", meaning average household vehicles that happen to take up over 90% of oil consumption in the US, NOT trucks or heavy equipment.

I am not even trying to get onto or against people who drive for pleasure/fun/ego boost/penile extension. I am "going off" about how the market is controlled by the industry, not the consumer consensus. I will love the day when I see drifters, nascar good 'ole boys and formula 1 richboys all racing in the Hydrogen/Electric or (drumroll please) cold fusion vehicle categories!

Ok... Cold fusion? now I have gone completely into the realm of science fiction, I know...

Still, although I dont subscribe to any form of motorsport, I will say again I dont CARE what individuals do, because they will do it anyway no matter how hard I rant. I DO care about the environment, and the large corporations that lobby and get laws tweaked their way so they can do what they like to it.

Ok ok... shutting up now...

Xhar
 

deathmetal

Cadet
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Location
Wisconsin
Secondly, I didnt mean to imply your car is the fastest, most polluting car out there, but in my oppinion it sure as hell doesnt help. The word "your" in the sentence you quoted was subjective, not denotive, and was not directed at you.
Sorry, it's hard to tell someones intent in text form over the internet.

Third, I am refering, as I stated specificly, to the "family market", meaning average household vehicles that happen to take up over 90% of oil consumption in the US, NOT trucks or heavy equipment.
Let's not forget all the big SUV's that are becoming very popular.

This is my last post on this, i'm not trying to start anything with anyone on here. I came to these forums to talk about games and more specifically HJ, and possibly meet people in the game one day.
 

Morneblade

Cadet
Joined
May 9, 2006
Gonna roll with Foxeye and Xhar on this one. I went to school for Marine Biology back in the day and I knew about global warming and all the kind of thing 20 years ago, when people thought we were idiots and tree huggers. Honestly, I don't see humanity doing enough to stop it before it goes past critical, and I think we are eventually going to posion the only home that we have (earth) to the point to mass extinction on this planet. America is at the forefront of the"I dont give a f*ck, I'm going to do what the hell I want to" line and we burn more fossil fuels than anyone. It's going to be a really sad day when you can't breathe the air or drink the water and have beachfront property in Nevada. We'll let the next generation deal with it.

And yeah, I was born and lived in the U.S all my life. But we treat our Home(earth) like a college dorm room. We tend to forget that we can't just move out at the end of the semster, we are stuck here for life.....and death. :unsure:
 

Vidisidus

Cadet
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
If the hydrogen cars don't operate on combustion, what do they operate on? The combustion of hydrogen is the cleanest combustion there is. You burn hydrogen and get water.

2H2 + O2 -> 2H2O

Granted I'm not a chemist, but thats how I always understood the process.

At any rate, anything is better than the fossil fuels we're currently burning like mad. Personally, I'm a fan of nuclear fission. If people would get over the paranoia and be educated in the truthful pros and cons of nuclear fission would see it as the ideal transition source of energy to fuel our rampage to an even better energy source. (Fusion, Wind, Solar, whatever)
 

Xhar

Cadet
Joined
May 3, 2006
Without getting too technical, Hydrogen reacts with a dialectric compound, causing a static electric field drawn as a direct current into a Coil/Magnet assembly. The current strengthens the magnet, causing motion in the coil wich is wrapped around a shaft.

I am not familiar with specific technical applications used within any specific model of vehicle. What I just described is the basic principle of the electric motor, shoving the Hydrogen/Dialectric interaction in front of it as an source of current.

The reaction with the dialectric compound causes a condensation of the hydrogen and ambient gasses, creating water runoff.As to how that works, ask a chemist, I am an electrician and an engineer to be, lol

Xhar
 

Xhar

Cadet
Joined
May 3, 2006
Quote:

A fuel Cell (F.C) is an electromechanical device, like a battery, that is continuously fueled (e.g., by fuel plus oxygen from the air). Each cell consists of electrolyte (a conducting ionic membrane) with an integrated porous anode and cathode. Hydrogen and /or hydrocarbon fuels react at the anode side, while oxygen from air reacts at the cathode side. The output is electrical energy in the form of direct current. When hydrogen is used as the fuel, the final exhaust product is simple water (i.e. zero oxides of sulfur and nitrogen zero hydrocarbon soot, and zero carbon dioxide or monoxide).

Thats the longer version :)

Xhar
 
Top Bottom