WatchMaker
Cadet
Or maybe we just see others to often.. 
I think PVP should be free for all with the option of arena, battlegrounds, and duels. But, free for all pvp should come with it's consequences. I would like to see a system implemented where killing unlawfully in the vacinity or within the eyesight range of an NPC labels you as an outlaw or criminal. You then have a bounty placed on your head which continues to grow if you kill more. Players and other NPC's can attack you on sight if they wish and collect your bounty from a guard npc or something.
Percy Bandello
Cadet
Not a big PVPer, but I think UO came as close to offering a perfect PVP system (before Trammal) as any game has so far. Pk's had a red aura, Non-Pks a blue one, and reputation increased toward one or the other depending on one's actions. Additionally there were shades of gray indicating a player had done something (attacking, thieving) but had not killed anyone. Over time a red player could redeem himself by practicing the virtues, and similarly a blue could fall from grace.
Red players where (I think, though I cannot remember) kill on site by guards in cities, as were thieves and anyone who initiated an attack. This made cities relatively safe, while providing an element of danger and uncertainty outside the town limits. This, coupled with a bounty system, led to PKs becoming true outlaws, in addition to allowing for factions to develop.
Consequences for death, while not permanent, where a bit harsher than most games out now. Corpses was freely lootable, and one was required to find a healer in order to resurrect.
I think this system was extremely dynamic, and did not feel artificial like WoW's too often does. Too me UO simply felt more "real" than WoW, which often comes of as a rather stagnant game of football between the two sides than a war.
Red players where (I think, though I cannot remember) kill on site by guards in cities, as were thieves and anyone who initiated an attack. This made cities relatively safe, while providing an element of danger and uncertainty outside the town limits. This, coupled with a bounty system, led to PKs becoming true outlaws, in addition to allowing for factions to develop.
Consequences for death, while not permanent, where a bit harsher than most games out now. Corpses was freely lootable, and one was required to find a healer in order to resurrect.
I think this system was extremely dynamic, and did not feel artificial like WoW's too often does. Too me UO simply felt more "real" than WoW, which often comes of as a rather stagnant game of football between the two sides than a war.
Luciro
Cadet
Old school UO tho is what caused all the whiners to go develop most of the games today tho'. Development after it to the line up now a days just shows how candy assed gamers are now a days. I agree tho'. But that's just too hardcore for most folks. Plus I hate to say it, but a lot of HJers are going to be major piss n' moaners. So I hope they just DON'T have a loot system in the game at all. Something more like CoV or H's enhance / inspir / salvage would be more suiting. Just so it seems more fair no one's stealing all the PHAT LOOT or ROLLS AREN'T FAIR blah blah.. Don't loot my body blah blah. I wasted most of my life getting those pants of healing whan whan.
But ja, I'd love to see a modern system take the UO approch to a LOT of things.
But ja, I'd love to see a modern system take the UO approch to a LOT of things.
I am sure they will have some penalty for dying. Dying in WoW doesn't mean anything really. Just the nuisance to have to collect your body and pay for the wear and tear of you equipment.
GS4 required deeds which you got from making offerings to the wench goddess Lorminstra. If your recent deaths was 1 there was no penalty. If you had more than one death you have what they called Death Sting (pain in the arse) Simply put. Your constitution decrease, your ability to learn exp decreased. Two ways to recover. Hunt off the penalty or buy flasks that increased in price depending on your level. I think when I had Zhelas buy the flasks at 14k per flask. For him to recover from a Sting it would cost him about 200k in silver to fully recover.
GS3 it was just deeds and 10k exp loss. If you didn't have deeds you went Demonic. Which means your character was dead for good.
GS4 required deeds which you got from making offerings to the wench goddess Lorminstra. If your recent deaths was 1 there was no penalty. If you had more than one death you have what they called Death Sting (pain in the arse) Simply put. Your constitution decrease, your ability to learn exp decreased. Two ways to recover. Hunt off the penalty or buy flasks that increased in price depending on your level. I think when I had Zhelas buy the flasks at 14k per flask. For him to recover from a Sting it would cost him about 200k in silver to fully recover.
GS3 it was just deeds and 10k exp loss. If you didn't have deeds you went Demonic. Which means your character was dead for good.
Percy Bandello
Cadet
Luciro said:
I can't but agree with you post. Though I am a roleplayer, and spent a lot of time either being killed by or attempting to avoid PK's, it added an element of excitement that is sorely missing in games these days. Accidentally becoming gray at the beginning of my UO experience and being killed by both sides for a long time actually added to my enjoyment of the game, coupled with the fact that it took some time to familiarize oneself with the system and controls in UO. Ultima had a huge learning curve compared with WoW's paint by the numbers approach, and I think this made UO a far more enjoyable and rewarding experience. I always felt boxed in while playing WoW, as though I were being led around by the nose from quest to quest, area to area (also it was teeming with rather young leet-speakers).
Personally, I am in agreement with you statement that UO nailed a lot of things which other games miss. Most important among these is, I think, a skill/point based system vs. a level based system.
I would like to see UO reworked and modernized, keeping all the great elements:
1. old-style PvP
2. a wholly skill based system
3. a totally open world vs. level appropriate areas or instances.
4. that incredible sense of freedom
Things I would like to see added/changed are:
1. Better graphics, though still isometric-based rather than 3D (they are actually doing this, and the screen shots look pretty impressive)
2. More emphasis on the virtue system, perhaps drawing from Ultima 4 and 5 for inspiration. I think a similar world to Ultima 5, keeping Blackthorn and adding the Shadowlords, would make a nice backdrop.
3. Do away with Trammel, Felucca and any other "other-dimensional areas" which have arisen, and simply make the actual world larger.
4. Better A.I.
5. Get rid of giant bugs, chicken creatures, and all other weird mounts, and return to more realistic mounts (i.e. horses).
6. I'll stop here, but there are others.
Sorry to veer off path here...
Gate
Cadet
Kuzzle said:
<3 My Kodo
But back on topic, I agree that we need a hybrid approach to PvP. There have been quite alot of games that have had some very good ideas, but no full package deal.
So let's break PvP down into its elements since it's hard to look at it as one thing:
-Personal Freedom (You lookin' at me? You LOOKIN at ME?)
-Protection from "asshats" (aka griefing)
-Death and the costs associated with it
-Locations (FFA, BGs, Zones, etc)
-Penalties (for killing another player, harrassment, etc)
-Inter-faction/Intra-faction PvP (can you kill anyone or just those on an opposing or even neutral "team")
-Consequences? (does your pvp action affect the world, some larger goal, or does a body mean nothing more than another tick mark in your tally)
-Faction vs. Personal (can there be actual wars between guilds/factions, or is any such thing unofficial)
And any others that I may have missed.
Luciro
Cadet
I still think a faction vs faction vs faction system would be grand. Not outright war, but let HJ have espioniage. Then on a guild vs guild level there's no doubt going to be 'shards' or 'servers' or what ever in HJ. Let conflict result in a real loss. Something like.. If your guild loses however so many losses, missions, resources, check points, favor or whatever. They log in next time on a new server. Sure they can have what they gained by playing, but bam! They're all of a sudden the outsiders. LoL I always liked that idea, but I will admit the biggest flaw is that it doesn't really have any sort of RP mechanic for the losing side what so ever. We need more RP devices in games. But I'm sure something could be cooked up. That's 'distressing', but not.. Make people quit disturbing.
