1. Our web server is getting tweaked this week and as a result some links are behaving strange. We're working on getting everything back to normal ASAP.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Alien Soup is a free community for fans of science-fiction, horror, & fantasy! Everybody is welcome here.

Fantasy IS Science Fiction

Discussion in 'Sci-Fi, Horror, and Fantasy Talk' started by Tom, May 30, 2010.

  1. Tom

    Tom An Old Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Location:
    Gulf Coast
    Just to share this Idea with you

    From my article

    There is much debate on science fiction stories containing fantasy elements.
    The fanatics of the genres claim a science fiction story cannot have dragons, magic, sorcery, elves, giants and the like.

    There are Hard scifi fanatics that refuse mind transfers, FTL travel and the like.

    As a general rule of a science fiction story there must be a basis in actual science underpinning the technology used in the story. The story doesn't have to be about the science but the science must be probable.

    Right now, there is science that supports the possibility of Elves, Giants, Magic, Sorcery, Dwarfs, Hobbits, Ogres, Dragons, Mages, Witches, Werewolves, Vampires, Frankensteins, and any other creature or manifestation you can imagine.

    FOGLETS - A basis for experiments in the nanotechnology field called
    "intelligent" polymorphic substances or "Utility Fog"

    Reference - Aspects of Utility Fog
    Original source: Nanotechnology
    Dr. J. Storrs Hall
    <josh@cs.rutgers.edu>

    Quote:
    Nanotechnology is based on the concept of tiny, self-replicating robots. The Utility Fog is a very simple extension of the idea: Suppose, instead of building the object you want atom by atom, the tiny robots linked their arms together to form a solid mass in the shape of the object you wanted?

    Reference: Ufog Dreams

    Quote:
    * Change a certain volume from one substance to another, ie. change running water to solid wood
    * Make objects appear and disappear, hence furnish your house
    * Automatically recycle used or obsolete materials
    * Connect to a super nano-internet which would provide a complete education for all in all languages
    * Build entire cities, whether in Bogota or on the Moon
    * Monitor your bodily functions, such as heartrate, etc. and take preventative action if necessary
    * Have your DNA pre-programmed, thus provide you with total immunity from all bacterial and viral agents, such as colds and AIDS
    * Perform surgery on the spot
    * Read your mind!

    Reference: Utility Fog

    Quote:
    "Imagine a microscopic robot. It has a body about the size of a human cell and 12 arms sticking out in all directions. A bucketfull of such robots might form a 'robot crystal' by linking their arms up into a lattice structure. Now take a room, with people, furniture, and other objects in it -- it's still mostly empty air. Fill the air completely full of robots. The robots are called Foglets and the substance they form is Utility Fog, which may have many useful medical applications. And when a number of utility foglets hold hands with their neighbors, they form a reconfigurable array of 'smart matter.'"

    Reference: Dr. J. Storrs Hall - Research Fellow of the Institute for Molecular Manufacturing.

    The best article I have read on the possibility of Nanotechnology is from Eric Drexler.
    His Essays called Engines Of Creation is a wonderful journey into the coming era of new science.

    Ok, so there is a basis for the substance of a demon materializing in a science fiction story. It can be structurally created in detail. That Dragon that attacks the space port? It can be a real substance creature. But how will it be able to move without life telling it what to do?

    Here is an article that talks about the coming Technological Singularity

    Singularity Institute
    P.O. Box 472079
    San Francisco, CA, 94147 USA
    Yes, its a real place and so is the Nanotech Institute

    Quote:
    direct brain-computer interfaces, biological augmentation of the brain, genetic engineering, ultra-high-resolution scans of the brain followed by computer emulation.


    Quote:
    The Singularity is the technological creation of smarter-than-human intelligence.


    Source: http://singinst.org/overview/whatisthesingularity

    If you add a singularity computer controlling the nano-constructs they will have the processing power to move and act as if alive. If the nano-tech advances to a point of the ability to replicate living flesh and organisms the constructs will be "alive" in their own right.

    My Point is that anything is possible when exploring science fiction concepts.

    As for MAGIC, WITCHCRAFT & SORCERY

    Thats the easiest science to explain!

    Imagine you were born in the early 1800's and you saw a person reach down and start a campfire with his hand. What you didn't see was the Bic lighter he used to ignite the flame. Magic, Witchcraft and Sorcery is all relevant to the observers frame of reference. Just because you don't know about a technology doesn't make that technology any less real.

    I invite your opinions and observations...
     
  2. Patrick G Cox

    Patrick G Cox Captain Writer

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Location:
    Germany
    There is always an element of fantasy to any form of science fiction. We tend to forget that operating a switch and causing a light to illuminate a room is "magic" to someone used to having to strike flint to steel to make a flame. Likewise a computer that responds to voice is "magic" to someone who has never seen one - or the remote that allows you to turn the TV on or off is a "magic wand" to someone who does not understand the prinicple of IR beams and signals...

    Fantasy is a part of what makes us human - it's the bit that teases us into asking the question, "What happens when...?"
     
  3. Webster

    Webster The Red Tarheel

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    Location:
    Morganton, NC
    Excellent point; I was going to say something similar but that sums it up. :cool: ;) :)
     
  4. BirdOPrey5

    BirdOPrey5 Rocket Ranger

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    There are elements of fantasy in science fiction but trolls, elves and dragons are NOT Sci Fi... Cylons, Vulcans, and X-Wing fighters ARE Sci Fi... I'm not degrading 'fantasy' in this post but it is a separate genre then Sci Fi... Harry Potter should not be in the same movie section as Star Trek. Please don't pretend like they are the same thing, they aren't. Just because magic sages are possible via nano-technology this doesn't give a back-door for every possible thing in existence to be part of sci-fi just because in theory they could be created on the holodeck.
     
  5. Patrick G Cox

    Patrick G Cox Captain Writer

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Location:
    Germany
    I would agree that casting spells and waving "magic" wands is not scifi, but when it comes to "creatures", everything depends on perspective. A silicone based lifeform may be a "troll" to us, the Area 51 beings could be elves or even orcs....
     
  6. deuteros

    deuteros Scout

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    I would say that science fiction is fantasy, not the other way around.
     
  7. jeniverre

    jeniverre Cadet

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Location:
    philippines
    I agree with deuteros.

    I guess all sci-fi could be an illusion (may or may not be proven), so it's still fantasy unless it's proven, then it'll be called science if it is...

    I don't want to argue when fantasy is sci-fi because old entity is very different to the new one.

    =)
     
  8. Tim

    Tim Creative Writer

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Location:
    England
    If you take it that scifi is everything that is, "out there," then fantasy is a sub-genre of scifi!
     
  9. Patrick G Cox

    Patrick G Cox Captain Writer

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Location:
    Germany
    Asimov used FTL travel in his stories, so did Heinlein and even the great A C Clark toyed with the suggestion of it, so to me that is 'science' and 'Scifi.' Creatures and evolution are environment driven, so as I have said before a silicone based life-form (a la Star Trek the first series) is a possible and so are any number of variations of others. Will they resemble us in form, number of limbs, etc.? Who knows? To our way of seeing things, this is the most efficient body structure we have come up with, but it may not be the most efficient in another environment or atmosphere where tentacles may be better than vertebrate limbs or the atmosphere be so thick it resembles a liquid (The oceans on our planet are in fact merely a liquid form of our atmosphere - H2O is a gas which is liquid at normal temperatures and pressures.) and a more aquatic form may be the best shape for the dwellers thereon.

    Magic is another matter, some technologies may be so far in advance of our own, or so different, that it may appear to be 'magic' but it is still science.

    Personally I like my Scifi obeying the laws of physics such as we know them, but to those who then say, "Ah ha! But that excludes FTL travel...." I would say this, Einstein himself changed his own E=mc2 formula twice and was still arguing that there was a missing factor or element because observation showed that some things simply broke the rule or ignored it.

    Early experiements with the CERN Particle Accelerator encountered numerous problems because the particles seemed to hit a 'wave' and vanished. It was then discovered that photographic plates to be used to 'capture' the particle were apparently exposed before being inserted into the machine. Changing the storage location and keeping them in lead lined vaults failed to stop the exposures and scientists are still arguing about what it meant. The fact that the 'exposures' actually matched what they expected from the impacts they were trying to generate made the argument even more complex. I believe the experiment was eventually abandoned and the whole scheme changed.

    Science doesn't have all the answers and probably never will, but it is worth noting that most of the really great leaps forward were usually the result of someone, somewhere, trying to prove something couldn't be done...
     
  10. amenhotepi

    amenhotepi Captain

    Joined:
    May 14, 2005
    Location:
    saudi arabia


    _ we've come a long way since magic, Medievalism and the Middle Ages. "today" we have more "moderate" forms of social norms ! the ordinary human-being is able to accept [.. predisposed to] the "polarised, extreme-science view of the world _" i suppose in einstein's world we can equate it as: c. _ we boil an electric-kettle and make a coffee in c [compared to being burned at the stake for being a witch,] is how i like to think of it !
    discoveries in science "tip the world," to "a more liberal" and nascent predisposition .. that leads us to an "optimistic" view of: "life slash science slash SF" _
     
  11. dotdotdash

    dotdotdash Cadet

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Forgive me if this has already been said before, but I wished to put things in my own words :3

    At the very core of the principle I would say that science fiction is fantasy/fantasy is science fiction in as much as they both approach the same principle but solve it in distinctly different ways; where "fantasy" provides spells, mana and wizards, "science fiction" presents lasers, plasma and all-knowing engineers; on a shallow level they are very different things, but at a fundamental level they serve the same purpose and fulfil the same roles. You could take a fantasy storyline and easily transfer it over to a science fiction setting... well... perhaps not easily. At face value the difference may appear vast, but both on an abstract and practical level there is very little difference between the two.

    They're not mutually exclusive either. Science fiction readily presents situations where "magic" appears to be used (such as Q in Star Trek) and whilst that isn't overstated (you'll never hear one of the crew of the Enterprise talking about "Q and his magic") the same association is still made. Conversely fantasy has readily incorporated schools of science - such as biology or "alchemy" (for want of a better example) - in the process of magic; you may not make the concious association but it is still present.

    Personally I think that going any further than the above is a wasted effort. I am unaware of the psychology involved (the entire process of removing ourselves from reality to revel in the suspension of disbelief) but I imagine that it's safe to assume that both science fiction and fantasy fulfil the same role in that regard. And I leave it at that. I don't think it matters beyond that.
     

Share This Page