Season 3 Closure

V

verdantheart

Guest
[May need to revise . . . in a hurry . . .]

“Resurrection” begins with Sydney entering CIA headquarters in LA--only we know it’s not Sydney because she inserts a contact lens before the eye scan and “freshens” her breath before breathing into the breathalizer. Sure enough, it’s Lauren, who enters to download the Rambaldi equation lately extracted from Nadia while Dixon and Marshall discuss his progress on getting the location of “Rambaldi’s essence.” Unfortunately for Marshall, he enters, wonders aloud why Sydney’s downloading the equation, and is shot for his curiosity. As Lauren leaves, she has Sark initiate countermeasures consisting of activating all the bombs that Lauren tossed along the way during her entrance. Vaughn pursues “Sydney,” but is conked on the head for his trouble, whereas Jack calls in security on Sark and has better luck.

A Mr Foster questions Sydney, who is frustrated to see Lauren borrowing her face to perpetrate yet another insult upon the CIA. After learning what was compromised, Sydney realizes that Lauren was the perpetrator. Foster suggests that Nadia might be involved, at which point Sydney ends the interview and Foster reassigns Sydney to a desk job until the investigation is complete.

Meanwhile, Vaughn tells Jack he’s ready to embark on the mission that they talked about regarding Lauren. Jack cautions Vaughn that the pressure to capture Lauren is about to rise exponentially considering her latest exploit, so Vaughn had better act soon. Therefore, he suggests to Dixon that Vaughn interrogate Sark based on Sark’s pattern of “caving out of fear” (a reason to have Jack interrogate him, wouldn’t you say?). Vaughn beats Lauren’s location out of Sark and moves in.

Sydney discusses the damage with Weiss, who tells her that Vaughn interviewed Sark but got nothing out of him. Sydney calls only to realize that Vaughn has gone after Lauren. She tries to talk him out of it, saying, “It’ll haunt you . . . I’ll lose you all over again.”

Vaughn follows Lauren to a warehouse where she meets with her equation expert. The equations boil down to an encrypted longitude and latitude. Lauren rewards her expert by shooting him, thereby ensuring his silence. Vaughn takes a picture of the location, then lies in wait and knocks Lauren out (Hi, Honey).

Sydney goes for the tape of Vaughn’s interrogation, only to find that it has been classified--by her father. She demands it from Jack, who insists that Vaughn needs closure and this is the only way for him to achieve it. Sydney tells Jack that he’s trying to achieve his own closure through Vaughn, but Jack counters that he had the chance to do that but passed it up--only to live to regret it. He claims that he’s trying to prevent Vaughn from becoming a man like himself. “I love you too much to let that happen,” he says.

Vaughn hangs Lauren from the ceiling. She wakes begging for her life, claiming to have fallen in love with Vaughn, hoping never to hear from the Covenant with further orders from them--but then Sydney came back. Naturally, Vaughn does not believe her. “I hate you, but I love Sydney more,” he says. “That’s the only reason you’re not dying tonight.” At this point he coughs up blood, stabbed from behind.

Sloane enters Nadia’s room to tell her what they’re after--Rambaldi’s consciousness, housed in the “Sphere of Life.” He asks her to go with him.

Vaughn is rushed into surgery. A horrified Sydney tells Jack, “You were right. Lauren has to pay.” Jack insists, “Vaughn has to do it.” But Sydney isn’t listening.

We see Lauren enter the cell next to Sark. She tells him she forgives him for giving her up and tells him that her mother has hired a lawyer. She asks about backup data, but once she has the information, reveals herself as Sydney, using a mask and voice modulator.

The location from Nadia’s data leads to a location in Palermo. Jack has arranged for a plane for Sydney:

Jack: Let me go instead.

Sydney: I can’t.

J: I’ll cover for you with Foster.

S: What is it?

J: Nothing. We’ll talk when you get back.

Vaughn wakes after surgery to find that Sydney has gone after Lauren. He’s agitated, worried Sydney is walking into a trap because it was Katya Derevko who stabbed him. With Weiss’ help, he stages an escape.

Nadia escapes and meets up with Sloane. She reveals that she altered the equations as Rambaldi’s elixir wore off, thereby misdirecting the Covenant and CIA.

Sydney is waiting at the Palermo site as darkness falls. Katya creeps up on her, but Sydney grabs her gun. Katya claims to be infiltrating the site and mistook Sydney for a Covenant guard. Sydney hands Katya her gun only to have Katya pull the trigger on her--fruitlessly. Sydney has pulled the clip. Katya asks, “How did you know?” Sydney admits she didn’t--before, and shoots her with a tranq.

Sydney moves in, taking out several guards. However, Lauren grabs her and a fights ensues. Lauren tells her that if Sydney kills her, she’ll never learn the “truth” and begins teasing her with little tidbits, promising proof in a vault in Wittenburg. She grabs a gun as Vaughn shows up and takes Sydney--“If you love her, you’ll put the gun down!” Vaughn starts to do so, but then shoots her. They kiss, Lauren rises (don’t all the monsters?) and Vaughn plugs her with his remaining four bullets. Lauren gasps out the vault number with her dying breath: 1062. “What was that?” Vaughn asks. “It doesn’t matter,” Sydney claims.

It matters so little that we then see Sydney in Wittenburg entering a bank vault. She breaks into box 1062, where she finds a secret CIA document, readable only via ultraviolet light. On the cover page we read:

S.A.B. 47
17 April 1975
Subject Sydney Anne Bristow
Senior Project Manager Jack Bristow

As she quickly scans the pages, crying, we see someone enter. It’s her father, wearing an expression of deep sadness. “Sydney. You were never supposed to have found this.”


Analysis . . .

First, a couple of words about Vaughn and Jack’s manipulation of him. Jack seizes on an existing opportunity partly in an attempt to solve a huge problem that he’s facing. However, he isn’t creating a situation, but merely facilitating it. He sees where it’s headed and is helping it get where it’s going partially because it will help solve his own problem.

But, in doing this, Jack proposes the idea of vengeance as some sort of “balm for the soul,” an avenue for “closure.” It concludes the life of the betrayer, yes, but you still have to live with your own mistakes . . . I have a hard time seeing Jack as the kind of man who does not realize this. Sydney accuses Jack of getting “Vaughn carrying your burden, trying to get you closure by doing the one thing you never got the chance to do--kill the person who betrayed you.” But Jack knows that it’s impossible for Vaughn to do that . . . that’s not what this is about at all. The question is, with his secondary motive, how fully does Jack believe it when he says, “I did have a chance. And I didn’t take it. And not a day went by that I didn’t regret letting her go. Vaughn will feel the same way. He will end up like me and I love you too much to let that happen.”

Jack’s circumstances are very different from Vaughn’s. Vaughn regrets even marrying Lauren, but Jack cannot regret marrying “Laura”--he’s admitted as much. He has Sydney from the marriage. And even if he is telling the truth, even if he regrets every day that he didn’t kill Irina when he had the chance, doesn’t he in equal part wish he had her back? With every measure of hatred and resentment in his heart, isn’t there an equal measure of forgiveness and love? We’ve seen it. However, it is very much true that Jack doesn’t want Vaughn to turn out like him--we know that it took a long time for Jack to make any kind of emotional recovery from Irina’s betrayals . . . and as we continue to discover, they’re never over, even when she’s absent.

Perhaps Jack realizes that Lauren, who Vaughn used basically as a band-aid to cover the emotional wound of losing Sydney, will continue to irritate Vaughn until he takes action and throws her away. Perhaps it’s not so much revenge that is needed, but confrontation--did Jack allow his opportunity for confrontation slip away? Jack is right that Vaughn needs “closure”--he can never heal his relationship with Sydney without it--but death is not necessarily the answer for that. The circumstances have to be right (and Sydney worked it out so that they were perfect, huh?) . . . in the end Vaughn can’t work it out on his own and drags Sydney into it.

Finally, I must note that the lesson that Vaughn cannot have learned from this all-too-tidy ending is that Lauren is merely a substitute for Sydney and that folly and fallacy is his fault. It is not Lauren’s defect that he married a woman he was not in love with. That Lauren was a betrayer was merely his “good fortune”--for now he can put her behind him without any guilt! Unlike an ordinary divorced man, he has total closure! Not only is Lauren dead, but she wasn’t even who she was represented to be! She had no feelings for him, so he can feel good about hating her and shutting her out of his life! Man, the boy should celebrate instead of feeling badly. However, embracing this reality would be an admission of his glaring faults--that he is too cowardly to face his own grief; that he is too wrapped up in the pride of his own self-righteous self-image to turn to the woman he loves, while merely dropping a woman who represents a mere construct of illusion. Send the guy to a therapist, stat.

Moving on. Lauren reveals a box number to Sydney and Sydney gets to the box and is reading the documents before Jack can get there to stop her. What does this tell us?

First, Jack knows that Lauren has the document, but he doesn’t know where the document is--if he did, he would get to it and Sydney would never have to see it. The fact that Lauren has this document and discloses it to Sydney reveals why Jack is pressing Vaughn to “seek closure” with Lauren--Jack needs Lauren dead, and he needs someone other than Sydney to go after her.

This suggests why Lauren joined the Covenant. She discovered documents like these concerning herself. Her father was part of a project like this--therefore their estrangement and her defection to the Covenant. She turned against the government that programmed her to be a spy. At the same time, she discovered that Sydney Bristow was part of the same sort of experiment--but with even more spectacular success--a field agent of legendary prowess, while she somehow was relegated to a desk. She stole the document and hid it away.

This explains why Jack went to Senator Reed with his information about Lauren instead of working directly through the CIA (something I’ve wondered about). He believed that this--and the loss of the documents about Sydney (he’d be aware of that) and any loss of documents about Lauren are most definitely connected and look to Reed for help in resolving the problem. This might also explain why Jack was so willing to accept the explanation that Reed’s death was suicide even though it most certainly was not. He needed time to decide what to do about Lauren given the fact that she was holding onto what is, to him, a ticking bomb that could destroy the remaining shreds of his tattered family.

When Vaughn goes vengeance-happy over his treacherous wife, he offers Jack an opportunity that he can’t pass up (as discussed). Vaughn can kill two birds with one stone by eliminating Jack’s problem while simultaneously removing a cancer on his relationship with Jack’s daughter.

But Sydney gets to Lauren and Lauren can’t wait to tell her “the truth.” She uses it in an attempt to forestall her death, but also blurts it out in her dying breath.* [Random thoughts] My guess is that she either a) sees Sydney as being in the same boat with her as a “manufactured spy” and that Sydney will pick up the standard that she dropped, or b) she realizes that this knowledge will bring Sydney nothing but pain.

I’ve seen quite a bit that says, well, this proves that Jack must be Covenant. Well, if he were, I think things would have gone quite a bit better for him this season--either that, or he lets things really string out (even further than Sloane does!!!) before allowing them to reel back in to him. In which case, the Covenant is way too unsubtle for him (he’d be manipulating the Covenant, not running it); the Trust would be more his style (and even there, he’s obviously not an official member because he wasn’t required to eyeball the vault lock). However, he must have some sort of importance because he seems to be able to (literally) get away with murder. But his importance is to the US government, not some penny-ante terrorist group. I think if he ever walks away from the US government, he’s taking all the marbles with him--or it’s going to be because they betray Sydney in a way he can’t work around.

Back to the Covenant. Whether Jack was in prison or not following his wife’s “death,” he most certainly was in prison at the outset of this season, and had been there, in solitary, for about a year. So he could hardly have been running the Covenant during that period. And, we’re supposed to believe that Jack was not only aware that Sydney had gone through an attempted brainwash, but that he, himself was behind it?--when he, of all people, knew it was likely not going to work (because of the Project Christmas training that he, himself, implanted)?

OK, let’s pretend Jack doesn’t love his daughter at all and is fine with turning her into an altered personality and feeding her to the likes of Simon Walker (who he later killed, I suppose, simply to silence Walker, not because Walker offended him?). If he were high up in the Covenant, why go to all of the time and trouble of pushing all of Vaughn’s buttons to get him to go after Lauren when he could simply order Cole or someone to pull the trigger on her? Wouldn’t Jack know Katya through the Covenant instead of having to meet her for the first time in “Crossings”? Why would the Covenant be so willing to use lethal force against Sydney? It’s clear that Jack doesn’t want Sydney killed, but Lauren, Sark, Bomani, and Katya were all more than willing to kill her. The only reason that the Covenant didn’t want Sydney dead at first was to get the “second coming” info out of her. After that, she was fair game.

Why would it be Jack registering suspicion and surprise--a private suspicion and surprise--upon realizing that Lauren might be Covenant, if he were, in fact, Covenant himself? If he were Covenant, wouldn’t he be important enough to know she were Covenant already? And, finally, if Jack were Covenant, would he not be expediting their progress toward the Passenger instead of impeding it? Jack is the one person who stands between the Covenant and its goal--the person into whose hands Sloane’s life falls. And he decides against the Covenant when he could so believably and easily have let it go the other way--even by “attempting” to save Sloane, thereby covering his bases with Sydney.

Anyone still believe Jack is Covenant? Please explain to me the basis for this conclusion.

No, the document was all CIA. It was a CIA document that was stolen by Lauren. Sydney is a CIA project, S.A.B. 47, headed by her father, Jack Bristow. This is all we are given (by the episode). We do not know the details of what Sydney learned about herself. [The official website suggested in its initial writeup that Jack was not in fact imprisoned after Irina’s apparent death, but was working with Vaughn and Brill. That he knew about Nadia and that both Sydney and Nadia’s lives had been fully documented. This is not part of the series, however, so it is subject to change.]

Some have already jumped to the conclusion that Jack’s evil. “I think you’re evil. Evil. Evil! Eeevil!!!” Smack! [Sorry, just got a DVD of The Birds . . .] That’s a big conclusion based on a title page of a secret document. I’m going to wait and see. [And it’s going to be a long wait, too . . . sigh] However, I’m going to point to one thing. When Sydney decides to go to Palermo, Jack could have stopped her. She is assigned to desk duty because of the investigation into the security breach and bombing of the Rotunda. But instead of stopping Sydney, Jack backs up her decision and assists her, providing her with a plane and covering with Foster. He is letting her make her own decisions--even though they might hurt her (and him) in the process. He’s letting her be an adult--he’s doing the very hardest thing for a parent to do: let go. And in this case, he’s facing the highest possible penalty for his action, in his mind: the loss of his daughter’s love.

And, again, it looks like Jack must have bugged Sydney or provided for other means of discovering where she was going because he showed at the bank in Wittenburg. It’s believable (especially with Vaughn’s presence) that Sydney would be delayed more than long enough for Jack to have gotten to the documents before Sydney and removed them. But he does’t. He waits for Sydney to discover them and only then does he express his despair that she has had to live through this moment.

So, if Jack’s not an evil Frankenstinian bastard, what is he? What has he always been when he has done terrible things in the past? The things that he’s done that have seemed unforgivable have always been in response to impossible situations. My ex-wife might kill my daughter or worse--I must emphatically demonstrate that she can’t be trusted. The reasoning behind the Project Christmas protocol is still a little murky, but we have reason to believe that Jack knew that Sydney was likely to be pushed into his life, like it or not, and he had to prepare her--and as a result, she was saved from reprogramming.

We don’t know what happened yet, but it looks like this project was initiated on the day of Sydney’s birth. Just when Jack should have been celebrating, suppose he was pushed to the wall instead. Suppose he was given a choice. You can either head this project and have a daughter, or you can decline and have your daughter taken away from you forever. We’ll just tell your wife that the baby died. In either case, Sydney would be spy-ified--there was nothing he could do about that. He was trapped. But if he signed on, he’d at least have some control . . . and he’d keep his family together. I wonder if they dumped a load of Rambaldi on him at this time? That would be one hell of an awakening for a man of 25 . . .

If we decide to believe that Jack initiated this project, that it was his idea, that he set out to make experiments of his children, then everything that has been established about Jack as a character is not correct. Even Irina indicated that she believes Jack to be a good father--and she must know about this, this happened before Jack found out that she was a spy.

On to the series of questions that Lauren brought up:

Do you think the CIA couldn’t find you when you went missing? Was the body correctly identified as not Sydney’s? And if so, who knew? Was Jack in on it as head of S.A.B. 47? Does this account for Jack’s relative lack of demonstrative grief? It would take a lot of convincing for me to believe that Jack would permit Sydney to go through that kind of torture . . . given their history . . . not if he could stop it. It would be a lot easier for me to buy if he were told later on, when it was too late (as with her recruitment into SD-6). I’ll be very unhappy with the writers if they decide that Jack’s imprisonment at the outset of the season is merely a hoax. You can’t turn major important emotional moments in a series to so much smoke and mirrors without draining the series of its impact--and Jack’s relationship with Sydney is one of the two most important relationships of the series (I won’t insult the shippers by arguing that it’s the most important relationship). I love you--just kidding! That’s what we call “a cheat.” So let’s be careful how and how far we go in baiting and switching the fans. We do know that Kendall, at least, caught up with her and served as her handler . . . odd, an FBI flunky serving in that capacity, but, hey . . .

Or you learned the truth by chance? Well, Kendall didn’t just drop by . . . or, I guess he sorta did. But only after Sydney reopened the mess she earlier tried to put a lid on. Which indicates that the CIA was happy to have Sydney follow up on Sloane’s breadcrumbs to her missing memories in hopes that they’d be the ones to pounce on the Rambaldi artifact. This indicates that Sloane was colluding with Jack instead of Irina because the encoded messages in Sloane’s breadcrumb trail were encrypted with a cipher which Jack claimed Irina devised and taught him. (Perhaps all he does to cooperate with Sloane is to recognize the cipher as one of Sloane’s and claim that it is one of Irina’s?)

But if Jack did this, circumventing Sydney’s own efforts to do the right thing . . . why did he do it? Suppose he told her that she erased her own memories for a reason--he knows Sydney would never believe that for a second and couldn’t live with it and be happy. He’s seen how the missing time has tortured her day by day . . . I can’t believe that Jack cares about the McGuffin and whether the CIA gets it or not--he cares about Sydney’s health and happiness. And taking her to some sort of resolution would seem to be the only way to get her there. With so few realistic leads, he pretty much has to allow events to take their course, as he did last season with Irina’s plot. Which leads naturally to . . .

And if your mother’s been helping you since you left, why haven’t you ever spoken to her? Why, indeed? Sydney hasn’t, but Jack has--or thinks he has. He asked for help from Irina and met Katya, purportedly acting on Irina’s behalf. During the discussion about the previous episode, I suggested that Katya has been posing as Irina in Jack’s IM conversations and Irina is either dead or driven underground. Lauren seems to be backing up my suspicions. However, Lauren can hardly point the finger at Jack as complicit in this subterfuge, for Jack is being deceived here.

You can’t believe you and your sister both just happen to be agents. Ah, well, both the CIA and the KGB-cum-SVR are complicit in this, aren’t they, for wouldn’t it have been the SVR who would have administered the Project Christmas protocol to Nadia? Although, if Jack managed to get access to her between her time in KGB/SVR hands and the orphanage, he might have done this--and a good thing too, for she’s even more on her own than Sydney.

We don’t know from the episode how much Jack knew about Nadia, about her whereabouts, and so on, but if he was on the same team with Vaughn Sr and Brill, can we believe that he has the same concerns? Specifically, does he share the same worry about bringing Sydney and Nadia together--the one that Vaughn was so adamant about (the Chosen One and the Passenger are destined to fight and neither will survive)? If so, that would leave Jack with a horrifying choice--to protect his second daughter, he must leave her in an orphanage to suffer. He could not approach her or show any love or concern for her because that would tip others off to her identity. This could help explain Jack’s estrangement from his remaining daughter--an overwhelming guilt over his inability to express his love for both equally! Even if it turns out that he is Nadia’s father, not Sloane (I’m guessing he wouldn’t take Sloane’s word on this)--if Jack knew all this time where she was, how could he ever reveal his fatherhood? The burden of guilt would be too great--for indeed he never showed up, never rescued her from that place. And even if it was for the best of reasons, even if it was to protect her in the only way that he could, he was leaving his child without her parents. And, knowing what Irina is, could he leave her to be brought up by her? Seriously? And now, what could he say that could make up for the past? How Sydney ended up with a father and Nadia ended up with nothing? And there’s still the problem of having Nadia in proximity with Sydney. Far better to keep his distance and allow Sloane to take her--Sloane at least is an able protector and has proven willing to make sacrifices to do so. Let him have his pretense--as long as he plays it to the hilt.

So is Jack trying to hold his fractured family somehow together by keeping it carefully apart? By becoming head of this project, was he trying to stay at the head of his family? Whatever he has said to Sydney about regretting having stayed his hand regarding Irina, too many signs point toward his lingering feelings toward her for us to ignore. He has attempted to conceal his feelings, but they are all too evident, whether from his glances or his behavior. Jack seems to simply let Irina go when she is not threatening Sydney--his strategy seems to be to distance Irina from Sydney; he delayed taking her into custody when Sloane (his objective) was not in the picture during season 2.

Does Jack even keep Nadia safely separated from himself, hidden from the CIA, from terrorists and criminals of all sorts, from Sloane--from Irina herself? Or is she part of his CIA project, followed from birth? If so, how does Jack prevent them from insisting that she be dosed with Rambaldi’s elixir? Who left Nadia at the orphanage, Irina or someone from the CIA? Irina supposedly killed Vaughn Sr to get her--did someone get to Irina afterwards? Jack?

I have a “big spec,” but I’m reluctant to bring out the spoiler tags for fear that if it’s in the works, they’ll change things around . . . (lol)

Within all this mess lies a question: Was Jack’s shaken reaction at Sydney’s revelation that Irina was alive that she was alive, or that Sydney realized she was alive? It’s hard to believe that Jack would not have tracked her down (for better or worse) if he didn’t believe that she was dead . . . And it hardly seems to make sense that they’d have been in contact over the years . . . Did he just let it be? Did she fake her death yet again for his benefit? ’Tis a puzzlement . . .


Random thoughts . . .

First, a few items on the “You’ve got to be kidding me!” scale. The prize-winner, of course was both Lauren and Sydney posing as each other by wearing Mission Impossible-style masks of each other. Problem, guys, this reads a lot better on the page than on screen! If you look closely--or better still, not so closely--at Jennifer Garner and Melissa George, you can see that they are built nothing alike and they are not at all the same height. How could even a casual viewer not notice something wrong--and how could a less casual viewer--say, someone like Julian Sark--possibly fail to notice that something was wrong?!? Impossible! 10 out of 10 on the YGTBKM credulity-stretching scale.

Second, Sydney hands Katya her gun back, sans clip, but Katya doesn’t notice the change in heft. Give me a break! She doesn’t notice that her gun is suddenly much more top-heavy? Does a clip full of rounds weigh so little or the handle of a gun so much? Not last time I picked one up (although, admittedly, that was some time ago). We’re talking top seasoned agent, here, though. 8 out of 10 YGTBKM.

Third, once again, Vaughn springs to his feet after a near-mortal blow. What happened? When Allison was at the bar ordering her shot of Rambaldi juice, Vaughn said, “I’ll have what she’s having--no, better make that a double”?! We’ve seen him stabbed and left for dead, left with an Inferno Protocol drip in him, and now again stabbed in the lung. Don’t call him Boyscout, call him Timex because he keeps on tickin’! Unbelievably. His escape and rescue of Sydney registers 9 out of 10 on the YGTBKM scale. Glad he was there, but--please!

Forth, won’t those people die?! This isn’t Halloween XXI, people. Sydney and Vaughn kiss, Lauren starts to stir . . . that’s not only unbelievable, it’s trite! 6 out of 10 on the YGTBKM scale (lower because we were expecting it); 10 out of 10 on the irritation scale.

Fifth and finally, Lauren getting the better of Sydney in a fight? Was it the distractions or what? C’mon, Allison maybe, but never Lauren!!! Puh-leeeze! Did Sydney see Vaughn out of the corner of her eye and decide to let him have his closure? I’m only going to give this a 5 on the YGTBKM scale, but only because there might be explanations for her lapse.

But other than that, I enjoyed the episode. Really. You’ve just got to do a little better on the YGTBKM scale.

* Let’s hope this was Lauren’s dying breath and that the rumors that she’ll be back for a few episodes next season are just so much disinformation. She was shot six (count ’em, six) times, and I’ve had enough needless back-from-the-dead drama with Allison.

Must admit, when Vaughn spat up that blood, I thought, must be Katya. And sure enough . . .

Again, things turn out, as I’ve mentioned, a little too neat and tidy for Sydney and Vaughn. Isn’t it convenient that his wife turned out to be a betraying spy instead of a nice girl (and wasn’t he an ungrateful wretch about that)? Isn’t it convenient that Lauren gave him the perfect excuse to blow her away--and that it was Vaughn and not Sydney who did it? As usual, things work out great for Vaughn, through no fault of his own, while things are totally screwed for Jack, who has tried everything in his power to prevent disaster (short of holding Sydney back). Would Jack have let someone get the drop on him as often as Vaughn has? No. If it was Jack, would Lauren have lasted long enough to be rescued? No. Vaughn screwed up enough to force Sydney into the picture allowing him to come riding in on his white horse in his shining armor to save her at just the right moment. Nothin’ beats dumb luck, that’s for sure. Yeah, I’m being hard on Vaughn, but I’m exaggerating for comparison’s sake.

I wonder if the number 47 in the project is at all linked to Lot 47 in the DSR's collection? Is there a file about Nadia encoded N?B (or N?S, since she ended up as Santos) 45?

More in-depth discussion regarding Jack in the Spy dad column. It might take me a little while because the character issues are a bit tangly, to say the least.

The cliffhanger of the finale felt a little retread-ish because of its similarity to the Project Christmas revelation of season 2--this feels like it’s just a blown-up version of that. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, Entertainment Weekly reported that the script changed quite a bit from the original plan, which involved a cliffhanger in which Sydney must choose between saving Vaughn or saving Jack. Frankly, I think that would be a terrific choice, but the timing’s not quite right for it now. After this season (if we discount this episode), I’d hope that many of us would take into account Vaughn’s behavior and think Sydney a total chump if the decision weren’t a forgone conclusion. Let’s allow Vaughn to raise his worthiness quotient and then have Sydney face that decision (of course, now it looks like both her men might have to work on their worthiness quotients, huh?). I wonder if the hasty rewrite accounts for some of the lapses in realism? I know this is escapist, but there is such a thing as verisimilitude, after all! I hope this is a direction that they planned to take the series and not a spur-of-the-moment fix. Perhaps that’s also why we never seemed to really get at the resurrection part of “Resurrection.”

The last episode of the season . . . As usual, it’s a sad moment. At least I still have season 1 commentary to fill out--for once I’m happy that I tend to procrastinate! For S/V fans, I’m sure it’s a moment of relief. For family fans, it’s a moment to look anxiously toward the future, hoping that Sydney’s past her run-off-without-waiting-for-an-explanation days. I, for one, am hoping to hear the explanation. It should be very illuminating! And I’m hoping for a season that focuses more on Jack and less on Vaughn--a far more complex and interesting character played by (no offense) an exceptional actor. Sydney keeps prying--it’s time for her to accept the responsibility which goes along with that and either become a true partner with her father or declare her independence from him.


Discuss . . .

[Holding some questions for Spy dad . . .]

Why do you think Jack pushed Vaughn toward “closure”? Was it a) his own personal need to remove Lauren from the picture, b) Vaughn’s relationship with Sydney was being poisoned by his feelings regarding Lauren c) a mixture of both of these, or d) he really is trying to work out his own issues through Vaughn?

Do you think if Vaughn had put Lauren through an acid bath, it would have made him feel any better? Would that have been better or worse than killing her?

Do you think that with what happened, Vaughn has achieved “closure”? Do you think that his basic issues have been addressed or not? What are the basic issues, anyway, and how have they been addressed or not?

Sydney blamed Lauren for what happened to Vaughn and not Jack for inciting him to go after her. Did this surprise you?

What do you make of Lauren? Why did she join the Covenant? Did she discover documents concerning herself and Sydney as I’ve suggested? If not, why else? Did you believe her story about falling in love with Vaughn (as I keep hearing, who wouldn’t--that sound you hear is my suppressed snicker)?

Do you think that Jack knew that Sydney was alive all along--or not? When do you think he found out? How involved (if at all) do you think he was in her undercover mission with the Covenant? Do you think he helped circumvent her memory wipe? If so, was it for the CIA or for Sydney’s well-being? Do you believe that he was really imprisoned, or was that a hoax?

Do you think that Katya has been posing as Irina via IM all along? That Irina never met Sydney during the time when she was Julia Thorne? Do you believe that Irina is still alive? What do you think has happened to her?

Do you expect Sydney to wait for Jack to explain the document she discovered in Wittenburg? In other words, how much has she changed since season 1--is she still willing to take things at face value, or does she now want to look behind the actions for the motivations? Has her basic trust for her father grown? Can she still drop it easily, or is that more difficult for her now? (This is a test of the Sydney Bristow trust system . . .)

Do you think that Jack chose his role as head of SAB 47, or was he forced into it? Do you think he’s basically good or evil?

Do you think Jack’s in the Covenant, or even its head? If so, please explain--thoroughly.

Do you think that Jack knew about Nadia all along? Do you think he knew where she was? If so, why do you think he left her languishing at the orphanage? Do you think if this were true it would help explain his estrangement with Sydney?


Next:
The long, long wait . . . Have a great summer & fall! Don’t forget us--stop by and visit! We’ll be here.


Modifications:
1. Random thought added regarding Lot 47/45.
 
Thank you so much VH for pulling my toes out of the waters of de Nile. Your explination of Jack's actions are soooo much more logical than my "theory" that the document were a fake and someone was in a Jack mask!

Why do you think Jack pushed Vaughn toward “closure”? Was it a) his own personal need to remove Lauren from the picture, b) Vaughn’s relationship with Sydney was being poisoned by his feelings regarding Lauren c) a mixture of both of these, or d) he really is trying to work out his own issues through Vaughn?
I'll go with C.

Do you think if Vaughn had put Lauren through an acid bath, it would have made him feel any better? Would that have been better or worse than killing her?
If putting Lauren in the acid bath would make him feel better, then I'd say look out Syd, but this season has put a bad taste in my mouth as far as Vuagh in concerned.

Do you think that with what happened, Vaughn has achieved “closure”? Do you think that his basic issues have been addressed or not? What are the basic issues, anyway, and how have they been addressed or not?
I feel that it would be dangerous for Syd to get in a relationship with Vaughn right now, he clearly is not well balnced pschologically. "saving" syd from Lauren has not adressed this.

Sydney blamed Lauren for what happened to Vaughn and not Jack for inciting him to go after her. Did this surprise you?
Not really, Syd might feel some dislike towards Lauren for using her face to hurt the CIA which has just been transfered.

What do you make of Lauren? Why did she join the Covenant? Did she discover documents concerning herself and Sydney as I’ve suggested? If not, why else? Did you believe her story about falling in love with Vaughn (as I keep hearing, who wouldn’t--that sound you hear is my suppressed snicker)?
If project Christmas has been used on Lauren then Jack is not as good as I thought. Perhaps her mother used the Russian verison on her or brainwashed her another way - by being her role model... I don't think Lauren feel in love with Vaughn!

Do you think that Jack knew that Sydney was alive all along--or not? When do you think he found out? How involved (if at all) do you think he was in her undercover mission with the Covenant? Do you think he helped circumvent her memory wipe? If so, was it for the CIA or for Sydney’s well-being? Do you believe that he was really imprisoned, or was that a hoax?
I think Jack found out before he saw her on the footage, but most likely not before her funieral. I think Jack never got to see Sydney while she was undercover, but could have been pulling strings before he was put in jail. I don't think he was involved in her memory wipe.

Do you think that Katya has been posing as Irina via IM all along? That Irina never met Sydney during the time when she was Julia Thorne? Do you believe that Irina is still alive? What do you think has happened to her?
I think that Katya could have been posing as Irina on IM, this might explain why she knows/feel so much about/for jack. I doubt Irina's dead but i con't have any Ideas about where she might be.

Do you expect Sydney to wait for Jack to explain the document she discovered in Wittenburg? In other words, how much has she changed since season 1--is she still willing to take things at face value, or does she now want to look behind the actions for the motivations? Has her basic trust for her father grown? Can she still drop it easily, or is that more difficult for her now? (This is a test of the Sydney Bristow trust system . . .)
I hope Sydney would wait for Jack to explain, or at least Jack locked the door so we'll hear it. I hope she's grown since season 1, but it might be nice to see how Jack will convince her.

Do you think that Jack chose his role as head of SAB 47, or was he forced into it? Do you think he’s basically good or evil?
Jack did NOT choose his role as head of S.A.B. 47!!! Jack is niether, but he most definatily has true paternal feeling for Syd, or else I'll boycott!

Do you think Jack’s in the Covenant, or even its head? If so, please explain--thoroughly.
No!

Do you think that Jack knew about Nadia all along? Do you think he knew where she was? If so, why do you think he left her languishing at the orphanage? Do you think if this were true it would help explain his estrangement with Sydney?
I'm not sure about Nadia it could go either way, i'll wait for 7-8 months to make up my mind.
 
Aww, it's the last Spy Family Column until January! (n) That's so sad...But there'll still be the Season Recap column, won't there? At least something else to look forward to.

Okay, first off I have to say V, that your cerebral powers absolutely AMAZE me. How in the world you can keep the entire season in your head, and remember all these intricate relationships and the details of everything, and then not only remember them but analyze them and rearrange them and explore them and make them make sense - I doubt even many of the staff writers for the show could do it. I always think I pay close attention to Alias, but when I read the column, I'm thinking, 'Did I even watch the show this season?!?" Your brain is like the ultimate Alias file cabinet! Thanks for letting us have access to it! :notworthy:

And another random comment - I love the "YGTBKM" scale. :lol: I think you should do one for every episode next season! (Of course, it'd be nice if we didn't need one at all, but you never know.)


Why do you think Jack pushed Vaughn toward “closure”? Was it a) his own personal need to remove Lauren from the picture, b) Vaughn’s relationship with Sydney was being poisoned by his feelings regarding Lauren c) a mixture of both of these, or d) he really is trying to work out his own issues through Vaughn?
I think it was a combination of the first two. Jack isn't the type to re-live his life through other people. I don't think he could get any vicarious satisfaction from a situation totally separate from his own. I didn't completely buy his explanation to Sydney, anyway. I don't believe he regrets not killing Irina. I think he feels that he should regret it, that it would be the appropriate response to what she did to him, but that because of the powerful hold she has over his emotions, he's simply incapable of it.

Do you think if Vaughn had put Lauren through an acid bath, it would have made him feel any better? Would that have been better or worse than killing her?
I don't know about Vaughn, but it would have made me feel a heck of a lot better. ^_^ But it would have been worse than killing her, because he would have to live with it continually. There's no closure if her horrible disfigured acid-eaten cow face turns up around every corner.

Do you think that with what happened, Vaughn has achieved “closure”? Do you think that his basic issues have been addressed or not? What are the basic issues, anyway, and how have they been addressed or not?
In real life, there's no way he could have closure YET. It's way too soon, and it would probably take years to work out the initial complications of the betrayal. But in TV world, and on Alias, I think he'll pretty much have closure next season. I'm sure the first few episodes will feature some residual Lauren issues, and maybe they'll pop up randomly for awhile, but somehow I don't think they'll spend a lot of time dwelling on it. I predict that things will be mostly smooth sailing with Syd and Vaughn next year. The real drama will (once again) lie in the Jack/Syd relationship. And amen to that!

Sydney blamed Lauren for what happened to Vaughn and not Jack for inciting him to go after her. Did this surprise you?
No, because I don't think Sydney believes Jack has THAT much influence over Vaughn. Obviously, she disapproves of the advice he gave him, but ultimately, Vaughn had to want to do it himself or he wouldn't have been so quick to go for it.

What do you make of Lauren? Why did she join the Covenant? Did she discover documents concerning herself and Sydney as I’ve suggested? If not, why else? Did you believe her story about falling in love with Vaughn (as I keep hearing, who wouldn’t--that sound you hear is my suppressed snicker)?
I hadn't been able to come up with anything previously (of course, I didn't try very hard - like I said, I wait till the initial thinking is done for me!) But I think your explanation makes PERFECT sense. That she was a project herself, and that she stole the documents from the CIA. Which makes me wonder - does that mean that Lauren has something to do with Rambaldi? I guess we don't HAVE to assume the project is Ramabldi-related, but the number 47 on the title page kind of rings alarm bells. And why did Lauren's mom join her in turning against the CIA and her father? For reasons similar to Irina's (previous loyalties)? Hmm..:Ponder: I just don't get it.

Do you think that Jack knew that Sydney was alive all along--or not? When do you think he found out? How involved (if at all) do you think he was in her undercover mission with the Covenant? Do you think he helped circumvent her memory wipe? If so, was it for the CIA or for Sydney’s well-being? Do you believe that he was really imprisoned, or was that a hoax?
No, I don't think he knew she was alive at first. He obviously suspected it, or he wouldn't have kept searching. I think he found out about a year into it. And I truly believe he was imprisoned. If the CIA knew she was alive and didn't tell Jack, and then he found out and was preparing to go after Sydney, would that have been reason enough to imprison him? Did they need her to be Julia Thorne for some reason? I can't remember, was it Kendall who convinced her to become a double? It almost seems like Jack's control of his "project" was taken out of his hands for a time, maybe because they needed to take it in a direction that Jack wouldn't stand for.

Do you think that Katya has been posing as Irina via IM all along? That Irina never met Sydney during the time when she was Julia Thorne? Do you believe that Irina is still alive? What do you think has happened to her?
I don't even think the writers know whether Irina is alive or dead. It's hard to imagine that Irina is somewhere where's she's being kept "out of the game" by someone else. From everything we know about her, it seems like she'd be impossible to keep imprisoned for long. If she's truly helpless in everything that's been going on, then she would have to be dead. And I know she wouldn't have sanctioned Katya's attempted assasination of Sydney. (That Aunt Katya...such a loving family.) So they're probably not working together. I don't even know what to think...I just really hope she isn't dead.

Do you expect Sydney to wait for Jack to explain the document she discovered in Wittenburg? In other words, how much has she changed since season 1--is she still willing to take things at face value, or does she now want to look behind the actions for the motivations? Has her basic trust for her father grown? Can she still drop it easily, or is that more difficult for her now? (This is a test of the Sydney Bristow trust system . . .)
I think she'll wait longer than she has in the past, but she'll still be incredibly upset and emotional, which makes anyone irrational. But with everything she and Jack have been through, and with all the insight she has into his motivations now, surely she won't just jump to conclusions like she has in the past. Now that she relies on him so much, she'll want to believe him more than she did before, it'll be almost like a craving to hear him explain it all away.

Do you think that Jack chose his role as head of SAB 47, or was he forced into it? Do you think he’s basically good or evil?
He might have chosen it, but like you said, probably because his only other option was something even more unbearable. I will never believe that Jack is obsessed with Rambaldi, so if the CIA discovered that Sydney was the "prophecy girl," then he would probably want to work with them at least to some extent to ensure that she wouldn't be take away from him. I just wonder if Sloane knew about it? He was in Vietnam at the time, wasn't he? I wonder at what point he found out about the project? And did it have anything to do with him inviting Jack into SD-6 with him?

Do you think Jack’s in the Covenant, or even its head? If so, please explain--thoroughly.
Nope, not at all. The thought never even crossed my mind until I saw a thread for it on here, and I don't think there was any evidence to support it.

Do you think that Jack knew about Nadia all along? Do you think he knew where she was? If so, why do you think he left her languishing at the orphanage? Do you think if this were true it would help explain his estrangement with Sydney?
If he did know about her, and if he did leave her knowingly at the orphanage, then it had to be out of the desire to protect both her and Sydney. I think that if he was aware of her, though, that it's more likely he didn't know where she was, or even if she was alive. It seems that there would be safer places to put her than an Argentine orphanage. That's leaving a lot to chance. Anybody would have access to her there, including the Covenant and Irina. But yes, I think knowing he had another child would affect his relationship with Sydney. It's almost a sense of "I've failed one, so what right do I have to be happy with the other one?"

Wow...That's more writing than I did for finals last week! But SO SO much more fun!! (y)
 
As everyone else has said, it's amazing how you can analyze and explain things so well.

Why do you think Jack pushed Vaughn toward “closure”? Was it a) his own personal need to remove Lauren from the picture, b) Vaughn’s relationship with Sydney was being poisoned by his feelings regarding Lauren c) a mixture of both of these, or d) he really is trying to work out his own issues through Vaughn?
I think mostly A, although he may have used other reasons to justify it somewhat to himself.

Do you think if Vaughn had put Lauren through an acid bath, it would have made him feel any better? Would that have been better or worse than killing her?
I’m not sure what it did for him. His torture of Suit and Glasses scared me, I think he’s becoming dangerous.

Do you think that with what happened, Vaughn has achieved “closure”? Do you think that his basic issues have been addressed or not? What are the basic issues, anyway, and how have they been addressed or not?
I’m not sure if there’s ever such a thing as closure when you’ve been betrayed like that.

What do you make of Lauren? Why did she join the Covenant? Did she discover documents concerning herself and Sydney as I’ve suggested? If not, why else? Did you believe her story about falling in love with Vaughn (as I keep hearing, who wouldn’t--that sound you hear is my suppressed snicker)?
She did not fall in love with Vaughn. It is highly likely, as you’ve suggested, that she took the documents and told Sydney about them knowing the pain it would cause both Sydney and Jack, as well as the thinking that if she had to go down, other should go down with her. The other possibility about wanting to tell Sydney because she felt that of some kind of common experience seems unlikely to me because it’s an odd time to do so when you’re about to be killed by someone. If she really felt Sydney should know, she should have done it earlier.

Do you think that Jack knew that Sydney was alive all along--or not? When do you think he found out? How involved (if at all) do you think he was in her undercover mission with the Covenant? Do you think he helped circumvent her memory wipe? If so, was it for the CIA or for Sydney’s well-being? Do you believe that he was really imprisoned, or was that a hoax?
I don’t really have any concrete ideas on this, so currently I’m just waiting (yes, a long time) to be surprised by JJ & crew come January.

Do you think that Katya has been posing as Irina via IM all along?
This is very possible

Do you believe that Irina is still alive? What do you think has happened to her?
I think that’s up in the air. If Lena Olin suddenly decided she wanted to come back, they’d certainly make her alive.

Do you expect Sydney to wait for Jack to explain the document she discovered in Wittenburg? In other words, how much has she changed since season 1--is she still willing to take things at face value, or does she now want to look behind the actions for the motivations? Has her basic trust for her father grown? Can she still drop it easily, or is that more difficult for her now? (This is a test of the Sydney Bristow trust system . . .)
I think it depends on how much she’s really seen. We’ve seen so little that if I was in her shoes I’d just be asking a lot of questions. However, she’s seen more…

Do you think that Jack chose his role as head of SAB 47, or was he forced into it? Do you think he’s basically good or evil?
To Sydney, I think he’s good, however that may require him doing some evil to society at times. I think he thought what he did was somehow good for Sydney.

Do you think Jack’s in the Covenant, or even its head? If so, please explain—thoroughly.
I don’t think he’s Covenant, but he obviously a lot of connections.
 
First of all... great read as always... secondly, regarding Jack being Covenant: I don't know whether he is Covenant, part of The Trust, or whatever.... but he's seemingly part of something aside from the "normal" duties of a CIA Officer. And when we discovered what happened to Sydney in her missing two years, we discovered that the puzzle pieces were there all season.... are the puzzle pieces there regarding Jack?... I don't know, but I taped all season 3 episodes so I know how part of my summer will be spent.... speculating, speculating, and speculating.

Why do you think Jack pushed Vaughn toward “closure”? Was it a) his own personal need to remove Lauren from the picture, b) Vaughn’s relationship with Sydney was being poisoned by his feelings regarding Lauren c) a mixture of both of these, or d) he really is trying to work out his own issues through Vaughn?

Answer: A.... I had originally thought all along that Jack was indirectly taking care of a situation that he was never able to deal with. But as this episode progressed, the more I leaned towards Jack's personal need to remove Lauren from the picture. One of the biggest puzzles to me this season was Katya's statement to Jack -- "Irina's intentions would become clear to him someday". What are Irina's intentions? I posted this somewhere else but I'm bringing it up again.... Was it Irina's "intention" for Sydney to find the papers in box 1062? And why was it that Lauren (of all people) told Sydney about the box?... How the hell would she know? From Katya?... She did, after all, save Lauren by stabbing Vaughn. From Irina? Why would Lauren bring up Irina to Sydney? Is Lauren more important than we think or even smarter than we think? (I certainly hope not.) Did Jack only recently discover those intentions and was taking the necessary measures to prevent it (ie: having Vaughn take Lauren out of the picture, sleeping with Katya to keep her close to his vest).

Do you think if Vaughn had put Lauren through an acid bath, it would have made him feel any better? Would that have been better or worse than killing her?

He would have ended up feeling worse... this is Vaughn we're talking about -- the boy scout himself... It would have been an act only out of frustration and anger for marrying Lauren in the first place.... and if he had killed her in that moment, it would have been an issue in his relationship with Sydney. Killing her to defend Sydney made it easy for him.

Do you think that with what happened, Vaughn has achieved “closure”? Do you think that his basic issues have been addressed or not? What are the basic issues, anyway, and how have they been addressed or not?

Not necessarily... there are alot of issues that he has never dealt with... Sydney's death for one... he never grieved for her. Yea, he drank himself silly and talked to his "dead" girlfriend, but he never dealt with it. And how do you do that when she's really not dead at all... He has to deal with the fact that his father had a secret life he never knew about... And he has to deal with himself -- for marrying a woman he didn't love.

Sydney blamed Lauren for what happened to Vaughn and not Jack for inciting him to go after her. Did this surprise you?

Not really... I think Sydney was just waiting for an opportunity to take care of Lauren herself. And it finally came....

What do you make of Lauren? Why did she join the Covenant?

I still don't know... I was hoping to find out how & why she joined the Covenant in this episode... I've said in the past that I think Lauren had good intentions in the begining but when her father made sure that she was never field rated, it p*ssed her off... that's why I believe she became Covenant.

Did she discover documents concerning herself and Sydney as I’ve suggested? If not, why else?

I don't think she discovered them herself.... As for my reason why, I answered that in the first discussion question. ;)

Did you believe her story about falling in love with Vaughn (as I keep hearing, who wouldn’t--that sound you hear is my suppressed snicker)?

UH, NO... and it became abundantly clear when Lauren said "you really are a boy scout"... she was playing on his "goodness" to try and get herself out of a terrible situation.

Do you think that Jack knew that Sydney was alive all along--or not? When do you think he found out? How involved (if at all) do you think he was in her undercover mission with the Covenant? Do you think he helped circumvent her memory wipe? If so, was it for the CIA or for Sydney’s well-being? Do you believe that he was really imprisoned, or was that a hoax?

I really don't know how to answer this one yet.... because as I sit here discussing all these questions, I have new theories running through my head.... It's late, so I'm going to sleep on this one and the ones that follow. Good Night, All... ;)
 
"As she quickly scans the pages, crying, we see someone enter. It’s her father, wearing an expression of deep sadness. “Sydney. You were never supposed to have found this.”"

"DEEP SADNESS"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

That's crazy.

How about evil madness? (just to make it rhyme?)
 
verdantheart said:
Third, once again, Vaughn springs to his feet after a near-mortal blow. What happened? When Allison was at the bar ordering her shot of Rambaldi juice, Vaughn said, “I’ll have what she’s having--no, better make that a double”?! We’ve seen him stabbed and left for dead, left with an Inferno Protocol drip in him, and now again stabbed in the lung. Don’t call him Boyscout, call him Timex because he keeps on tickin’! Unbelievably. His escape and rescue of Sydney registers 9 out of 10 on the YGTBKM scale.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Why do you think Jack pushed Vaughn toward “closure”? Was it a) his own personal need to remove Lauren from the picture, b) Vaughn’s relationship with Sydney was being poisoned by his feelings regarding Lauren c) a mixture of both of these, or d) he really is trying to work out his own issues through Vaughn?
I think it was A - killing two birds with one stone. Jack gets Lauren dead. Vaughn gets his closure. Shippers get S/V back and we (most of us) rejoice in Lauren's death.

Do you think if Vaughn had put Lauren through an acid bath, it would have made him feel any better? Would that have been better or worse than killing her?
I think he would have been fine with it - look what he did to Sark, Vaughn told him he wanted to make him unrecognizable. And um, I'm hoping Sark won't have any lasting scars but Vaughn didn't seem too upset about that and it was just Sark. So Lauren, his betraying wife? No, he would have done it and probably not felt bad IMO. Although, Sark kinda was instigating him whereas Lauren was pleading and still trying to sell the 'I loved you, I did!' felgercarb... :Ponder: Shoot, did I just talk myself out of that? No. He would have been okay I think.

Do you think that with what happened, Vaughn has achieved “closure”? Do you think that his basic issues have been addressed or not? What are the basic issues, anyway, and how have they been addressed or not?
Well, provided Swamp Monster doesn't come back *crosses fingers* - he will still have issues. He and Syd have even bigger issues - I'm hoping it's not all rainbows and kittens right away for them next season. Please let Syd call him out on things - like all the felgercarb he put her through this season. Please!

Did you believe her story about falling in love with Vaughn (as I keep hearing, who wouldn’t--that sound you hear is my suppressed snicker)?
Muhahaha, as I watched that I was thinking of the last eppy when she said that to Vaughn before 'releasing' him to get picked up by that semi. Heh, it seemed to work then...until she kicked him in the head! I think she lost all her 'But it was real for me!' credibility the minute her boot kicked his face in.

Do you think that Jack knew that Sydney was alive all along--or not? When do you think he found out? How involved (if at all) do you think he was in her undercover mission with the Covenant? Do you think he helped circumvent her memory wipe? If so, was it for the CIA or for Sydney’s well-being? Do you believe that he was really imprisoned, or was that a hoax?
All this Jack business, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee - I just don't know! :blink:

Ah, it's so late - maybe I shall come back and attempt to make more coherent statements later. Per usual V - your column always helps me clear up the murky stuff :D Excellent stuff - and your sense of humor kills me :lol: (y)
 
Azalea said:
Okay, first off I have to say V, that your cerebral powers absolutely AMAZE me.  How in the world you can keep the entire season in your head, and remember all these intricate relationships and the details of everything, and then not only remember them but analyze them and rearrange them and explore them and make them make sense - I doubt even many of the staff writers for the show could do it.  I always think I pay close attention to Alias, but when I read the column, I'm thinking, 'Did I even watch the show this season?!?"  Your brain is like the ultimate Alias file cabinet! Thanks for letting us have access to it! :notworthy:
:blush: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You're welcome. I think. :lol:

And another random comment - I love the "YGTBKM" scale.  :lol: I think you should do one for every episode next season! (Of course, it'd be nice if we didn't need one at all, but you never know.)
Thanks--and Alias isn't the only one, so it's not like I'm picking on them. 24's finale had a sequence that sent me right off the scale and into orbit! The wife of a dead agent just waltzing into CTU and rifling through her husband's things before they'd even been gone through? Allowed to see data on monitors? Walked right in front of suspects? Allowed to get hold of a loaded gun so that she could shoot and kill said suspect?! Uh huh. I'll buy that. In a million and one years, maybe. :lol:

There's no closure if her horrible disfigured acid-eaten cow face turns up around every corner.
You've got a point there. :lol:

Wow...That's more writing than I did for finals last week!  But SO SO much more fun!! (y)
Glad to hear it! ;)

ivand67 said:
"DEEP SADNESS"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

That's crazy.

How about evil madness? (just to make it rhyme?)
If you say so . . . :o_O: :lol: . . . but, personally, IMHO either your reception or your expression-reading capabilities were poor on Sunday. :confused:

Charlie said:
As everyone else has said, it's amazing how you can analyze and explain things so well.
How nice of you to say so, Charlie! I always love it when you reply to my columns! :smiley:

Well, I'd better get started on the Spy dad column . . . sorry to say I didn't get anything done other than some thinking last night! ^_^
✌️
 
I'm riding the bitter bus right now.... just spent an hour answering the rest of the questions.... I replied and it magically disappeared.... Here we go again....

Do you think that Jack knew that Sydney was alive all along--or not? When do you think he found out? How involved (if at all) do you think he was in her undercover mission with the Covenant? Do you think he helped circumvent her memory wipe? If so, was it for the CIA or for Sydney’s well-being? Do you believe that he was really imprisoned, or was that a hoax?

Yes, I do believe Jack knew she was alive, why she was kidnapped, and desperately trying to find her.... As I said before, Jack is apparantly part of something extracurricular. Whether is was as a part of the CIA or outside of it, I don't know because that is all blurry to me.... because I'm not sure what is within or without of the CIA yet... I'm starting to believe though that he might have been working with Brill and Vaughn Sr. And I'm starting to wonder if he has known about Nadia all along as the passenger and Sydney as the chosen one and what the reprucussions of that would be and was out to protect both of them... We know Vaughn Sr. kidnapped Nadia in order to protect her so I would like to think if Jack knew about Nadia... it was at Jack's instructions that Vaughn Sr. kidnapped her.... At first I thought that maybe Jack was involved with The Covenant but know I don't believe it because of Sydney's kidnapping. I think Sydney was kidnapped in the hopes that Covenant would find Nadia as well. And if Jack was trying to protect Nadia and Sydney, it wouldn't make sense that he was working for The Covenant. As far as his imprisonment.... I would believe it was a hoax if Brill, Vaughn Sr, and Jack were working together as part of a secret CIA division... but if it was outside of the CIA, maybe it was for real... but again, it's all so blurry as to who works for who and who is good and who is bad.... (My head hurts now... :confused: )

Do you think that Katya has been posing as Irina via IM all along?

I just don't want to believe this is true, because I want to believe that Jack and Irina were working together all along to protect their daughter (or daughter's ;) ) But if this were true why would the IM connection disconnect at the mention of the passenger???? And why would Jack, if he already knew of the passenger, ask about it. Maybe Jack figured out that it was Katya instead of Irina and that was his way of finding out.

Do you expect Sydney to wait for Jack to explain the document she discovered in Wittenburg? In other words, how much has she changed since season 1--is she still willing to take things at face value, or does she now want to look behind the actions for the motivations? Has her basic trust for her father grown? Can she still drop it easily, or is that more difficult for her now? (This is a test of the Sydney Bristow trust system . . .)

No... she's not going to wait for an explanation... and I don't think she has been able to take things at face value since the Project Christmas revelation. I think she deperately wants to trust her father but can't because of that. And with the document revelation, how can she trust him.

BTW... off topic a bit.... why do you think that Sydney's disguise in Wittenberg made her look strikingly like Irina? Do you think Sydney felt it was Irina who placed those documents there and she had to look like her to access the box?

Do you think that Jack chose his role as head of SAB 47, or was he forced into it? Do you think he’s basically good or evil?

Absolutely... if he did know about Nadia and Sydney's role in the Rambaldi prophecy, I would like to think it was with good intentions in order to protect them.

Do you think that Jack knew about Nadia all along? Do you think he knew where she was? If so, why do you think he left her languishing at the orphanage? Do you think if this were true it would help explain his estrangement with Sydney?

Yes I do... And if Vaughn Sr. and Jack were working together and Vaughn Sr. did in fact kidnap Nadia per Jack's instructions... then he knew where she was... As far as her being left in an orphanage, maybe that was the best option for her protection. I'm not sure this would explain his estrangement from Sydney though. I really don't know what to think of that.....

Again, as always VH, another great read.... See you in 2005..... (y)
 
freakforalias said:
Do you think that Katya has been posing as Irina via IM all along?

I just don't want to believe this is true, because I want to believe that Jack and Irina were working together all along to protect their daughter (or daughter's ;) ) But if this were true why would the IM connection disconnect at the mention of the passenger???? And why would Jack, if he already knew of the passenger, ask about it. Maybe Jack figured out that it was Katya instead of Irina and that was his way of finding out.
This is something I've realized--if Jack already knows about the Passenger, and Irina knows that he knows, then his asking Irina about it was a test. Perhaps the person at the other end also knows this connection and realized the jig was up. (Jack was hoping they didn't and he'd get a line on who was trying to play him.)
;) ✌️
 
Dear Brilliant Columnist,
I have been reading boards for Alias for months now (watching since season 2/owning both on dvd blah blah blah) and I have never once replied to a single thing I have read. However, I have to tell you, your analysis was THE best I have come across hands down. Insightful, ON TRACK, and extremely well written. Thank you for rescuing us all from the "who's hotter, Vaughn or Sark?" dribble I find almost everywhere else. (Of course I have my opinions on those types of issues but I don't need a message board to figure it out!) Now that I have recovered from the shock of January as a return date, I can get down to business rewatching the seasons on DVD-now, with your commentary in hand I can reevaluate it all in light of some really thought provoking guidance. Your column will be my Alias Flashlight, so to speak! my heartfelt thanks!
 
:thud: VH my head is in a spin after that - what an explanation of the possibilities - agreeing with Azy - do i watch when i watch - cos you see sooooooooooo much deeper. too confused to reply :lol: maybelater when it has all sunk in.

but want to say the YGTBKM scale was hilarious!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: sad we need it but man you hit them spot on!!!!

and hey - Lauren was not oonly shot 6 times - she fell down the hole too!!! ;) :P :P :P she better be dead. (y) 🐟

excellent column!!!! :smiley: (y)
 
Why do you think Jack pushed Vaughn toward ?closure?? Was it a) his own personal need to remove Lauren from the picture, b) Vaughn?s relationship with Sydney was being poisoned by his feelings regarding Lauren c) a mixture of both of these, or d) he really is trying to work out his own issues through Vaughn?

I think a mixture of a & b...but I also wonder how he might not think that killing Luaren in cold blood would not also poison Vaughn and Syd's relationship. I don't think Vaughn is good enough for Syd at this point, so really I cannot possibly see how Jack would think that he is worthy of her...so in talking it out...really I think more of A, because I think he would rather see Syd move on than be with Vaughn at this point.

Do you think if Vaughn had put Lauren through an acid bath, it would have made him feel any better? Would that have been better or worse than killing her

I don't see how that would have made him better...he has always been so moralistic and a "boyscout" , however didn't he get lucky that he got to kill her saving Syd's life...what better reason is there than that. So when his demons start to haunt him he just has to tell himself it was her or Syd....and HELLO that is a no brainer!

Do you think that with what happened, Vaughn has achieved ?closure?? Do you think that his basic issues have been addressed or not? What are the basic issues, anyway, and how have they been addressed or not?

Maybe for him, but how could Syd have closure? He was a major disappointment this season. I think they will have heaps of issues next season...how he could move on so fast. Be duped so easy. Not accept any personal responsibility. Put his pride and need for revenge over Syd and her sisters safety...etc etc.


Sydney blamed Lauren for what happened to Vaughn and not Jack for inciting him to go after her. Did this surprise you?
She had so much anger towards Lauren already, I think it was pretty easy to pin this one on her...it gave her just the reason and push she needed to justify some much desired whooping up on her nemisis.

What do you make of Lauren? Why did she join the Covenant? Did she discover documents concerning herself and Sydney as I?ve suggested? If not, why else? Did you believe her story about falling in love with Vaughn (as I keep hearing, who wouldn?t--that sound you hear is my suppressed snicker)?
No way did she ever love Vaughn...at most he was a conquest which is why she was irritated about him and Syd and the kiss. I loved your theory about finding the documents and defecting to the covenant. Where does her mom come into that though? Did her mom become embittered by her hubbie being married to his job more than her so she got her revenge by joining an agency that worked against what he was working for. And if so did she find the documents first, then recruit Lauren with them? Just thinking out loud....

Do you think that Jack knew that Sydney was alive all along--or not? When do you think he found out? How involved (if at all) do you think he was in her undercover mission with the Covenant? Do you think he helped circumvent her memory wipe? If so, was it for the CIA or for Sydney?s well-being? Do you believe that he was really imprisoned, or was that a hoax?

I cannot believe Jack knew she was alive...I like Vaughn and all, but this relationship is my fav in the whole show. I think Jack wants to protect Sydney from that kind of darkness, from some of the awful choices he had to make. I don't believe for a minute he would have allowed for her to go through what she had to for those years. He may have found out when Kendall did and then just done whatever he had to do for Syd's safety or best interest...

Do you think that Katya has been posing as Irina via IM all along? That Irina never met Sydney during the time when she was Julia Thorne? Do you believe that Irina is still alive? What do you think has happened to her
This is a hard one, I do not think Irina is dead, because until the writers no for sure she is not coming back I think they will leave it open for her to come back. (of course this show is becoming quite fond of bring people back from the dead) It is a very plausible storyline that Katya has been posing as her all along. I just wonder if they are working together or if Katya is against her...judging from the fact she seemed prepared to kill Syd, I would say they have different agendas.

Do you expect Sydney to wait for Jack to explain the document she discovered in Wittenburg? In other words, how much has she changed since season 1--is she still willing to take things at face value, or does she now want to look behind the actions for the motivations? Has her basic trust for her father grown? Can she still drop it easily, or is that more difficult for her now? (This is a test of the Sydney Bristow trust system . . .)
I really want her to wait around because I need to know as soon as possible what is going on!! It is bad enough I have to wait till January, but if she runs off we may not find out for a few episodes. I really want to see the relationship between her and her dad continue to grow; when they work together it is so awesome. I think she has to know that while her dad has done some questionable things, that there is no doubt he loves her.

Do you think that Jack chose his role as head of SAB 47, or was he forced into it? Do you think he?s basically good or evil?
Definitely basically a great guy that has been it situations where his choices were bad or worse or worst...so sometimes he had to make bad choices, but they were the best of his options.

Do you think that Jack knew about Nadia all along? Do you think he knew where she was? If so, why do you think he left her languishing at the orphanage? Do you think if this were true it would help explain his estrangement with Sydney?

This was another great theory. I think Jack may have known about her all along and as you mentioned actions taken or rather the no action taken was for her protection...and actually I think he did take action...If Vaughn's dad was truly working with him, my bet is that Jack placed him in charge of his other daughter's safety...in fact it may be very possible that Jack even helped fake the death of Irina and Vaughn's dad for his other daughter's sake...who knows? January come quickly!!!!














, :rolleyes: :D
 
So those smilies were supposed to be after certain comments but are at the bottom...hmm can't figure that out, or how to do the quote for each question :confused: But anyway I forgot to mention that I love your columns V and I especially love that you are not resigned to Jack being evil and I cannot wait for spydad column!!! :D And that was a big tease with having a big theory and not sharing it !!!! (n) Thanks for all the time you put in to your columns! (y)
 
V, you rock. can i be your new best friend?

And even if he is telling the truth, even if he regrets every day that he didn’t kill Irina when he had the chance, doesn’t he in equal part wish he had her back? With every measure of hatred and resentment in his heart, isn’t there an equal measure of forgiveness and love?

bless you, child. that was an awsome thing to say and i believe it's true. oh and here's another blessing for the YGTBKM scale.

moving on to the discussion part...

Why do you think Jack pushed Vaughn toward “closure”? Was it a) his own personal need to remove Lauren from the picture, b) Vaughn’s relationship with Sydney was being poisoned by his feelings regarding Lauren c) a mixture of both of these, or d) he really is trying to work out his own issues through Vaughn?

honestly, i think it's a mixture of all of the above. i can't help but think that he was trying to see how things would have turned out had he chosen to kill Irina through Vaughn. am i making sense? Jack said that he regrets not killing Irina when he had the chance but i don't think he meant it. still, he wonders how his life would have turned out had he killed her. so by inciting Vaughn to kill Lauren, he sort of gets an idea how things *could* have turned out without actually doing anything himself.

Do you think if Vaughn had put Lauren through an acid bath, it would have made him feel any better? Would that have been better or worse than killing her?

actually no, i don't think he would have felt any better and it would have made things worse between him and Syd. and that choice would have definitely been worse than killing her. torturing someone is very different from a quick kill.

Do you think that with what happened, Vaughn has achieved “closure”? Do you think that his basic issues have been addressed or not? What are the basic issues, anyway, and how have they been addressed or not?

well he has achieved closure in the sense that he is no longer married to a treacherous wife. but that doesn't mean that his emotional and psychological issues are over, far from it. i think his basic issues are 1) to restore his relationship with Sydney and 2) to make peace with himself for marrying a woman he doesnt love and hurting the woman he does love and these two issues have not been *fully* addressed yet, meaning they're still there.

Sydney blamed Lauren for what happened to Vaughn and not Jack for inciting him to go after her. Did this surprise you?

no. the points that were posted above are all good, but i think that in addition to them Sydney deep down understands why her father incited Vaughn to go after Lauren. she may not approve of his motives, but she understands them, even if she doesn't admit it.

What do you make of Lauren? Why did she join the Covenant? Did she discover documents concerning herself and Sydney as I’ve suggested? If not, why else? Did you believe her story about falling in love with Vaughn (as I keep hearing, who wouldn’t--that sound you hear is my suppressed snicker)?

i can't anwer the first questions but i think that Lauren was a "project" herself. maybe she was programmed into joining the Covenant just as Syd was programmed to become a spy. and as for her "falling in love with Vaughn"... well, i think that is ridiculous beyond belief :P.

Do you think that Jack knew that Sydney was alive all along--or not? When do you think he found out? How involved (if at all) do you think he was in her undercover mission with the Covenant? Do you think he helped circumvent her memory wipe? If so, was it for the CIA or for Sydney’s well-being? Do you believe that he was really imprisoned, or was that a hoax?

i don't think Jack knew Sydney was alive right after her supposed death. he said he contacted Irina to help him found out who killed Sydney and i think that after a short while the two of them discovered she was alive together. i don't believe he was involved in her undercover mission with the Covenant or that he had anything to do with her memory loss. as for him being imprisoned, well, it better not be a hoax.

Do you think that Katya has been posing as Irina via IM all along? That Irina never met Sydney during the time when she was Julia Thorne? Do you believe that Irina is still alive? What do you think has happened to her?

no i don't think that Katya has been posing as Irina. i'm thinking that maybe Katya is working with the Soviet Rambaldi researchers (do they have a name?) which is why she has been "helping" Irina find her Nadia all those years. it could be that they need Nadia for some reason, perpahs to continue their expirements on her and get the Rambaldi message. so maybe she pretended to be working with Irina, but after she got the information she needed she got Irina out of the picture by imprisoning her or something. i don't want to believe she's dead yet. she BETTER NOT be dead, you hear? :angelic: one thing though, why do you think Irina met Sydney when she was Julia Thorne? did i miss something?

Do you expect Sydney to wait for Jack to explain the document she discovered in Wittenburg? In other words, how much has she changed since season 1--is she still willing to take things at face value, or does she now want to look behind the actions for the motivations? Has her basic trust for her father grown? Can she still drop it easily, or is that more difficult for her now? (This is a test of the Sydney Bristow trust system . . .)

well yes i expect her to hear him out. i know that their relationship will not be restored right away, no matter how good his explanation is, but eventually it will be. unless he turns out to be evil, which is highly unlikely and unwelcome :P.

Do you think that Jack chose his role as head of SAB 47, or was he forced into it? Do you think he’s basically good or evil?

well i really like your interpretation of that. maybe he was given a choice and heading the project was a whole lot better than whatever his second choice was. is good or evil? well, he's certainly something in between. he's not evil, but he's no saint either. i've heard suggestions that maybe Sloane is being made to be the equivalent of Irina, but i think that Jack is her equivalent. they both love their daughters and both are willing to do awful things for them, whereas Sloane has a more selfish approach.

Do you think Jack’s in the Covenant, or even its head? If so, please explain--thoroughly.

hehehe. no.

Do you think that Jack knew about Nadia all along? Do you think he knew where she was? If so, why do you think he left her languishing at the orphanage? Do you think if this were true it would help explain his estrangement with Sydney?

okay this is confusing. the abc summary said that he did, but that has been changed and nobody has a clue as to why it has been edited. it would make an interesting twist if he knew about Nadia all along as long as he didn't know she was related to Rambaldi. that would mean that Jack knew more about Rambaldi than he was showing and his behavior during season 2 would suggest otherwise. he'd come off as a big-time liar and i don't like that. if Nadia is indeed his daughter, then it could mean that, like Sydney, she is a US government project (and i'm thinking that since Bill Vaughn was working with him back then, then maybe Michael is a project too). however, if Jack knew about Nadia, then he knew Irina didn't die in the car accident. so how did he become convinced that she died later? there has been no indication whatsoever so far that he was in contact with her after the accident. so. confusing. the abc summary suggests that he kept Nadia under surveillance all her life, which means that he knew where she was. maybe he's the one who put her in the orphanage to keep her away from Irina (which, quite frankly, is a pretty good reason for Irina to kick his ass). so, Bill Vaughn takes Nadia away from KGB custody and puts her in the orphanage under instructions from Jack. Irina doesn't know Jack is involved or that he knows that Nadia is alive so she goes after Bill Vaughn and kills him when he refuses to tell her where her daughter is. question is, if Jack didn't know about his daugher(s)' connectio to Rambaldi, why did he keep Nadia away from him? maybe because she's not his daughter? did i mention how confusing this is?

in the end i would like to say that Jack is no better parent than Irina and if he dares to criticize her love for her daughters i'm gonna have to thwack him around the head a few times and knock some sense into him ;).

V, i think i'm gonna miss your columns the most during those 7 months! thank you for sharing you intelligence with us ;).
 
This is my first time responding so if I don't do this exactly right, I apologize. I always read your columns and am amazed at what you come up with. You should help out the writers of this show.
To answer your first question, I think that the answer is C. Jack always wants what is best for Sydney.
For the second question, I don't think that it giving Lauren an acid bath would have made him feel any better and that it would be worse than killing her. He is a boyscout after all and I think that it worked out much better for him to legitimately kill her defending Sydney.
I think that Vaughn will feel better that Lauren is out of the picture(hopefully she is really dead) but I think that the real issue is the fact that he married her in the first place and that he continued to be loyal to her even after Sydney came back and after he decided that their marriage was over. He has every right to be angry at Lauren and to hate her and want her dead but I think some of the anger is at himself but he is directing it all toward Lauren.
I have to admit, it did surprise me when Sydney did not direct some of the anger toward her father for what happened to Vaughn. When Vaughn came to the hospital, I looked at my aunt and said "oh no, she's gonna be mad at her dad!" I have to say that Jack is my favorite character and that I really believe that nearly everything he does is because he loves his daughter.
As for why Lauren joined the covenant, I have this weird theory floating in my head, tell me if I'm crazy, but I have wondered if Lauren's mother could be Irina's other sister and somehow all of this generation is being used in the quest for Rambaldi? Lauren was never in love with Vaughn!
I don't really think that Jack knew that Sydney was alive the entire time unless it was some elaborate plot to keep her safe, but that would mean that the prison thing was a hoax and I just don't believe that. Now I am wondering about the six months he was supposedly in prison when "Laura" died.
I think that it is a good possibility that Katya was emailing Jack the entire time. I don't think that Irina is dead but even if she were or were thought to be dead this is alias and it doesn't really matter. I have no idea what she might be up to.
I hope that since Sydney did not at first get angry with her father over Vaughn that maybe she will be willing to listen to him. Depending on what she read and how upset she is, she might welcome someone explaining it away. Jack looked nearly as upset as she did and that is a lot for Jack. I also believed that he wanted to tell her something before she left. I agree that he must have been forced into it, that it was the best of all of the choices. He is a tragic hero, everyone roots(sp) for him but he always has to take the long hard complicated costly road to saving the day.
There is no way that Jack is covenant and definetly not the head. It just does not make sense.
I don't know if Jack knew about Nadia all along but I think that it would be interesting if he did. I have always thought that he must have known Vaughn's Father very well and it makes sense for them and Brill to have worked together. I think that Jack very well could be the father of both sisters and have felt guilty about whatever role he had in Nadia ending up at the orphanage even if it was to protect her and or Sydney. He may have also felt guilty for being allowed to keep Sydney. I also think that maybe he wanted keep his distance for her as long as he could to give her the most normal life possible for as long as he could especially if he had some info about the prophecy. Maybe it was actually the plan to recruit her into the CIA when she graduated college and Sloan through a wrench into this plan by getting to her first.
I am really looking forward to the Spy Dad column. I think that the character of Jack has a depth that really makes him the most interesting.
 
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