Politics Illegal Immigrants Getting Tuition Breaks

[the_alliance]

This just pisses me off. If you want to come to America, than enter legally and don't act like an innocent citizen while you're not.

They're stealing jobs and just about everything else from the American people. It's not fair.

[post="1337722"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

illegal immigrants are a good thing. they normally take the jobs that no other self-respecting American would take. that may sound kind of mean, but seriously, would you want to be a janitor?

and they only flee their country because of it's conditions. normally America (not Americans, so in no way am I attacking any specific nationality and therefore not in violation of any forum guidelines) has some dealings with their impoverished conditions because of our "foreign policy". so if they're in need, help 'em out.

 

[Jamison]

illegal immigrants are a good thing. they normally take the jobs that no other self-respecting American would take. that may sound kind of mean, but seriously, would you want to be a janitor?

and they only flee their country because of it's conditions. normally America (not Americans, so in no way am I attacking any specific nationality and therefore not in violation of any forum guidelines) has some dealings with their impoverished conditions because of our "foreign policy". so if they're in need, help 'em out.

[post="1337866"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

I don't really think anyone has a problem helping them out...but the problem arises when they are getting better benefits than Americans do...tax paying Americans. It's not fair, when they don't pay taxes they are getting the exact same benefits that the tax payers in their states are getting because of education.

It's just like the new healthcare bill, which would give money to hospitals to treat illegal immigrants, without putting the cost to them to get emergency care/medicine. We have insurance and certainly don't get our healthcare for free, even with insurance costs. It's not at all fair that someone who doesn't pay taxes and who is in this country illegally will essentially get free healthcare...when the rest of us don't.

 

[Azhria Lilu]

Although I agree that a government’s first responsibility it its citizens, and that America cannot accept all people that would like to become citizens as citizens, I don’t understand how some people seem to value the intrinsic value of an American as greater than that of a non-American.

 

[Jamison]

I don't think it's that we value them more...but American citizens pay taxes, and most (if not all) illegal immigrants don't. I think that we should help them, but only when we can help our own citizens first.

 

[the_alliance]

Although I agree that a government’s first responsibility it its citizens, and that America cannot accept all people that would like to become citizens as citizens, I don’t understand how some people seem to value the intrinsic value of an American as greater than that of a non-American.

[post="1338006"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

nationalism

 

[Jamison]

nationalism

[post="1338085"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

I think we should help other people...but that shouldn't come before American citizens.

 

[xinli11]

Cool don't diss illegal immagrants becasue they are the foundation of your country.  If it wasn't for illegal immigrants you guys wouldnt have anyone to exploit.  No one to do the jobs that no one else wants to do... get my drift.  Deny it all you want but its true.  Take it easy on them.

[post="1336401"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Nah...we'd find some other group to exploit. There's always a lowest rung in the ladder. So that's the layer we exploit. And yes that sounds mean and really jaded. But it's true.

But anyway, that's not my main point. The fact is, that tis is a complex issue. While it is true that illegal immigrants do not pay taxes, and thus do not directly contribute to your well being, in a sense, they are in fact a valuable source of cheap labor. They do the jobs that no one else will, and at 1/100th of the cost sometimes. THose savings reaped by businesses eventually do translate into gains for you. So the question is that should the contributions taht illegal immigrants make be recognized in some way?

Now, that is not to say that illegal immigrants are just a god send. They definitely represent a drain on society, in terms of medicare for one. But the question you gotta ask yourself is, are you really better off if this source of cheap labor dried up? I honestly don't know. But I would not be so quick to dismiss their potential contributions right out of hand.

I had to earn my way through college, so I know how it feels to be poor and not really get the kind of financial assistance you need. But then again, I was blessed with a solid education through high school, and a home environment that actively encouraged and fostered higher learning. Many, if not all, of these immigrants lack such conditions. And if it means some expense on my part to give them a chance, then I'd be ok with it.

 

[noggi16]

Thats so much more eloquently put than I ever could. At last a realisation that illegal immigrants aren't going to steal all your jobs and are a total drain on your society.

 

[Jamison]

Well if this is going to continue, then maybe they should out law out of state tuition all together, to help benefit American citizens.

Court weighs tuition breaks for illegal immigrants
Associated Press

TOPEKA, Kan. — A federal judge heard arguments challenging a Kansas law that grants tuition breaks to some illegal immigrants — a case closely watched by eight other states with similar laws.

Lawyers for six parents and 18 students argued Tuesday that the Kansas statute violates federal immigration laws designed to prevent states from giving such tuition breaks.

Texas, California, Illinois, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Utah and Washington have laws similar to Kansas'. If Kansas' law is struck down, other states' statutes could be in jeopardy, said Peter Roos, an attorney representing two Hispanic groups helping defend the law.

"It is perceived, accurately, as a test case," said Kris Kobach, the attorney for the students challenging the statute. "It's the first test in federal court of whether these laws can stand."

U.S. Senior District Judge Richard Rogers said he would not rule at least until late May.

In Kansas, illegal immigrants who wish to qualify for the program must have attended a Kansas high school for at least three years and graduated or earned a general education development certificate in Kansas. Also, they must actively be seeking legal immigration status or plan to do so when they are eligible.

Under the two 1996 federal laws, states can grant such tuition breaks — if they're not based on residency and only if such breaks are available to other U.S. citizens.

Mike Delaney, an attorney representing the state, said Kansas law is written carefully enough to avoid violating the federal statutes. But Kobach said the state's reading of the law would create a "giant semantic loophole" and subvert congressional intent.

Supporters of the Kansas law, which took effect July 1, 2004, argue that many immigrants affected by it have attended school or lived in Kansas for years. If it is struck down, "It's almost a knee-capping, a destruction, of the life chances of these kids," said Roos.

Critics contend the law rewards individuals and families who are violating federal immigration laws. Some students who sued the state were in the courtroom Tuesday and said it's unfair to give the tuition break to illegal immigrants but not to legal residents of other states.

"I know the world's not fair but the world shouldn't violate the law," said Chris Heath, a senior at the University of Kansas.

 

[noggi16]

Well it would stop people moaning.

I've got a radical idea to make sure everyone gets the same treatment:

stop all financial aid

or

put taxes up.

 

[ms.katejones]

Well it would stop people moaning.

I've got a radical idea to make sure everyone gets the same treatment:

stop all financial aid

or

put taxes up.

[post="1338897"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Well, the whole point of financial aid is that it equalizes things so that people with less money can go to college. Obviously the system isn't perfect but I don't think stopping financial aid would help. And we'd have to raise taxe A LOT to make tuition go down for everyone.

 

[Jamison]

Well, the whole point of financial aid is that it equalizes things so that people with less money can go to college. Obviously the system isn't perfect but I don't think stopping financial aid would help. And we'd have to raise taxe A LOT to make tuition go down for everyone.

[post="1338954"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

Exactly...and that wouldn't make people any happier.

Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. Paying taxes is what gives you in state and out of state tuition. Tax payers are paying for illegal immigrants to go to universitys at half the cost then what they should be paying.

 

[noggi16]

Not defianlty.

We run 2 world class and 19 nearly world class universities out of our taxes, run a loan sysem and only charge £1115 a year.

 

[Jamison]

Not defianlty.

We run 2 world class and 19 nearly world class universities out of our taxes, run a loan sysem and only charge £1115 a year.

[post="1338966"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

That's lovely, really...but in the United States taxes would have to be raised an astronomical amount to make prices go down for everyone. I go to an instate public univeristy and my yearly costs are close to 12,000 dollars a year (and this is one of the best rates in the state).

With so many public Universitys in the country which heavily rely on tax money, we would have to raise taxes a ton...especially when tax money towards education also goes to public K-12 schools.

And the illegal immigrant issue really doesn't have anything to do with financial aid. They technically aren't getting a financial aid program. They are getting the same benefits as residents of the states are getting...when they aren't residents.

A girl I know is going to my University because it is one of the few places that offers a study in her field that was realitively close to where she lives (she's out of state). She's paying well over 20,000 a year to go to school here. She's a legal resident, and her parents pay taxes, but because they don't pay North Carolina taxes, she pays out of state tuition. Illegal immigrants don't pay any taxes, yet they get to pay in state tuition in several states. It's almost like punishing tax paying American citizens.

 

[noggi16]

No its nothing like punishing "American" citizens for paying tax, its giving a small number of people, who are in the process of applying for residency. The conditions sound fairly defined to me.

With so many public Universitys in the country which heavily rely on tax money, we would have to raise taxes a ton...especially when tax money towards education also goes to public K-12 schools.

And nearly everyone here goes to state school (public means something else in the UK) and we send 42% of the population to University. So its hardly impossible.

 

[Jamison]

No its nothing like punishing "American" citizens for paying tax, its giving a small number of people, who are in the process of applying for residency. The conditions sound fairly defined to me.
And nearly everyone here goes to state school (public means something else in the UK) and we send 42% of the population to University. So its hardly impossible.

[post="1338990"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]​

But do you have as many state universitys/schools as we do in the United States?

And maybe 'punishing' is a harsh term. But these Americans are paying taxes that benefit the universities...illegal immigrants (some of which have been living here for 10 years and still haven't applied for residency) aren't.

That's the sole reason we have in and out of state tuition...taxes.

 

[noggi16]

But do you have as many state universitys/schools as we do in the United States?

No but you have more people.

I think the real problem is you don't have a uniform tax structure.

And I have a similar situation.

In Scotland there are no tution fees. In England its just over 1 thousand pounds a year. But England and Scotland are the same country. And more tax is spent in Scotland as it is poorer. So to go to university in Scotland would cost me the same as a French person. Now that doesn't bother me.

 

[Jamison]

I don't have any problem with out of state tuition. If you or your parents/guardians are paying taxes that go towards education in a certain state then you should pay less in tuition. And it's fair that you should have to pay more if you go out of state.

It becomes a problem when people who are not residence and don't get any money in taxes to the education system get the benefits of an in state tuition.

 

[the_alliance]

1. Economic Root Causes of Migration. Increased economic integration between the United States and Mexico in the last 25 years, especially since the adoption of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) in 1993, has not led to improving living standards for the majority of Mexicans, and economic growth in Mexico has not kept pace with growth in the labor force. Congress ought to consider an economic package which targets sectors of the Mexican economy, especially agriculture, which employ low-skilled workers. Congress should also examine NAFTA’s impact on low-skilled Mexican workers and consider ways to mitigate the negative impacts which lead to migration.

2. Legalization. A main feature of any comprehensive immigration reform measure should be a legalization program which allows undocumented immigrants of all nationalities in the United States the opportunity to obtain permanent residency, either because of contributions already made or through a prospective work requirement. Specifically, a program of legalization would keep families together; recognize and maintain the economic contributions of the undocumented; improve wages and working conditions for all workers; promote development and stability in Mexico and Central America; and help bring U.S. immigration policy in line with U.S. economic policy.

[refer to provisions of the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act (S. 1033), introduced by Senators John McCain (R-AZ) and Edward Kennedy (D-MA)]

3. Employment-based Immigration. Abuses in past “guest worker” programs can and must be avoided, and a new model for a temporary worker program would help to protect the rights and welfare of U.S. and foreign workers alike. A just worker program which creates legal avenues for migration will mitigate the amount and effects of undocumented migration, which can lead to abuse, exploitation, or even death of migrants.

4. Family-based Immigration. Statutory limits on family immigration, enacted in 1990, are now inadequate and can lead to waits of more than eight years for spouses to reunite and for parents to reunite with minor children, Bishop Barnes said. The wait for adult siblings can be 20 years or longer. The system is in urgent need of reform. Such lengthy waiting times are unacceptable and can actually provide unintentional incentive for some migrants to come to the United States illegally.

5. Due process. Some foreign nationals are denied due process of law – the requirement that they be treated fairly in legal proceedings – and can be barred admission to the United States, permanently in some cases, because of previous infractions of immigration law, regardless of how minor. The penalty for violating these grounds of inadmissibility are disproportionate to the actual violation committed. They also separate families for indefinite periods. Congress ought to repeal the harshest of these laws.

6. Enforcement. The human dignity of the individual must be protected in any law enforcement action. Concerns have grown increasingly that the U.S. immigration enforcement regime violates basic human dignity and has placed the lives of migrants at risk. Despite the expenditure of more that $20 billion since 1994 to secure the southern border, an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 undocumented migrants still cross into the United States from Mexico each year. It is evident that the basic human need to survive will continue to force migrants to attempt to run the gauntlet of our southern border. Reform that is truly comprehensive would mitigate the need to migrate, and as part of that, a reformed enforcement regime which is targeted, proportional, and humane ought to be enacted.

i think they bring up soild points about immigration. the US claims to be a Christian country but her policies are sometimes at best disgraceful.

 

[facade47]

I have a question. Does becoming a legal US citizen take a really long time? Because if they became legal citizens, then there would be no need for threads like these.

I guess it's okay if they get financial aid like the rest of us, just as long as they don't get it because they are illegal. That would be...well...illegal...I think.