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tasoli
Guest
Read this... it's long, but it's a good read. This is Dungeons and Dragons. This is where MMORPGs came from.
DnD 3.5 Revised
DnD 3.5 Revised
Zee_CinVin
Cadet
To say that MMO's came from DnD is an overly simplistic view of its orgins. That being said... I dont think you are completely off base. Haven't read the link yet but I'll get around to it.
::mutters something about E3::
::mutters something about E3::
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tasoli
Guest
If you look at the game mechanics for (most) MMOs they almost all use an AC (Armor Class) of some kind which can be traced directly back to Dungeons and Dragons origins. Not to mention Saving Throws, and Stat Modifiers.
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frostydf2
Guest
Definatly a good read. I never got into DnD, but I would like to try it out one of these days. I got invited a few times to try it out with a paintball field owner. Me, and my buddies were invited, but we never went. Hmmm...
Zee_CinVin
Cadet
If you are actually interested in this subject go ahead and read Bartle's Designing Virtual worlds. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/013101816...5Fencoding=UTF8
But be warned its a good 800 pages long.
But be warned its a good 800 pages long.
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tasoli
Guest
You're gonna sit and tell me you seriously don't believe that MMORPGs and the idea for a game where you role play came from the DnD craze in the 70's? Where do you think this movement for playing characters who are in a medieval setting came from? Look at the classes for the first few RPGs that these companies created and tell me where you think they got their ideas. Hell look at the 4 core classes in any medieval MMO- Mage, Fighter, Thief, Healer- the 4 core classes of DnD.Originally posted by HJ-Zee@Apr 28 2006, 11:44 PM
If you are actually interested in this subject go ahead and read Bartle's Designing Virtual worlds. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/013101816...5Fencoding=UTF8
But be warned its a good 800 pages long. But he gives a varrying different view on how MMO's began and, to be honest, I'm more likely to believe his version than yours.
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tasoli
Guest
Not really, if you look at the bone structures of dinosaurs and the bone structures of mankind, both species are completely different anatomically. Not to mention on a cellular level.
However, if you look at when DnD was popularized and when RPGs first came out in text form, then using graphics, it was right after 1970 which is right after the DnD boardgame craze.
Additionally, many of the classes are the exact same, and many of the game mechanics incuding saving throws can be viewed in the combat info window in many games still around today.
Anyone else?
What about Chainmail? It wasn't exactly a dungeon crawler like D&D, but a bunch of the rules you mentioned (like AC and stuff) actually came from that game. It was sorta a precursor to D&D.
It was a table top war game, sorta like Warhammer. Anyway, Gary Gygax and some other dude (can't remember his name - sorry) were some of the designers of Chainmail. They later thought it'd be neat to follow the adventures of individual heros from Chainmail. Using some of the same base concepts from this wargame they created the basic ruleset for D&D. In the very beginning Chainmail rules were required to play D&D.
I won't go as far as to say that D&D (or Chainmail, for that matter) were the first to come up with the concepts you see prevelant in MMORPGs today. However, I will agree that D&D was definately the most popular and certainly a heavy influence on any rpg you see today though.
It was a table top war game, sorta like Warhammer. Anyway, Gary Gygax and some other dude (can't remember his name - sorry) were some of the designers of Chainmail. They later thought it'd be neat to follow the adventures of individual heros from Chainmail. Using some of the same base concepts from this wargame they created the basic ruleset for D&D. In the very beginning Chainmail rules were required to play D&D.
I won't go as far as to say that D&D (or Chainmail, for that matter) were the first to come up with the concepts you see prevelant in MMORPGs today. However, I will agree that D&D was definately the most popular and certainly a heavy influence on any rpg you see today though.
Azdel
Cadet
Not really, if you look at the bone structures of dinosaurs and the bone structures of mankind, both species are completely different anatomically. Not to mention on a cellular level.
However, if you look at when DnD was popularized and when RPGs first came out in text form, then using graphics, it was right after 1970 which is right after the DnD boardgame craze.
Additionally, many of the classes are the exact same, and many of the game mechanics incuding saving throws can be viewed in the combat info window in many games still around today.
Anyone else? [/b][/quote]
I know dinosaurs were different from humans, that's precisely my point. They were the same in that they had flesh, bones, organs and blood, but as you said, there were fundamental differences. Two things can be similar without being directly connected.
And by the way, mammals started appearing when dinosaurs were in their prime too.
Similarties and narrow time periods have their merits as evidence, but they don't really help us do more than make educated guesses at the factual conclusion, and if we're talking about educated guesses, I think that someone in the industry is probably the most qualified to make one.
Rrr3311z
Scout
Is this a debate?
It kind of seems like you guys are purposely trying to start an argument over something very stupid.
If you didn't know, not everything starts off from one simple thing.
Why, cars for instance, I'm pretty damn sure others have tried to build a type of car before they were popular from one dealer.
It's the fact that one person might get heard before someone else and get all of the glory.
And maybe it's the whole perspective thing.
Maybe the reason why you think it originated from D&D fully is because it was the craze at that time.
But multiple things happen in this world.
We're a planet of 6,034,213,000 human minds, please take that into consideration. :lol:
It kind of seems like you guys are purposely trying to start an argument over something very stupid.
If you didn't know, not everything starts off from one simple thing.
Why, cars for instance, I'm pretty damn sure others have tried to build a type of car before they were popular from one dealer.
It's the fact that one person might get heard before someone else and get all of the glory.
And maybe it's the whole perspective thing.
Maybe the reason why you think it originated from D&D fully is because it was the craze at that time.
But multiple things happen in this world.
We're a planet of 6,034,213,000 human minds, please take that into consideration. :lol:
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frostydf2
Guest
Azdel go for it. We are open for debate anywhere, just try to understand someone elses point of view is all I ask. No flaming, but if you think someone is wrong, or you have a better idea! Of course, throw it out their!
Azdel
Cadet
Could someone please explain to me how I "flamed" anyone, because I thought we were just talking. Well, unless you mean Killarai, but I was rude to him because I hate it when people tell me what my intentions are and I just don't stand for being treated that way, but as for Tasoli, I thought we were simply having a conversation, and I don't really see how I was rude to him. If I'm missing something, then please tell me.
Rrr3311z
Scout
Sorry, I just sort of figured we were allowed to have a conversation here. My bad.[/b][/quote]
I'm not saying you can't start a debate, I'm just saying, before you go all crazy with it, please take into consideration of others thoughts.
Quit being such a kid, and quit jumping to conclusions.
And no need to flame me, that's pretty harsh.
Azdel
Cadet
I'm not saying you can't start a debate, I'm just saying, before you go all crazy with it, please take into consideration of others thoughts.
Quit being such a kid, and quit jumping to conclusions.
And no need to flame me, that's pretty harsh.
[/b][/quote]That doesn't really answer my question. You still haven't explained how having a discussion automatically qualifies as picking a fight. You tell me to stop jumping to conclusions, yet you won't explain your own assumptions about my actions. I made another post asking for someone to help me understand what I did wrong, so I'm obviously intent on correcting my mistake, but you simply ignored that post and repeated yourself. You can't expect me to "quit being such a kid" if you won't tell me what it is that defines me as one, so maybe you should be helping me do something about it rather than continuing your condescending lectures.
Rrr3311z
Scout
That doesn't really answer my question. You still haven't explained how having a discussion automatically qualifies as picking a fight. You tell me to stop jumping to conclusions, yet you won't explain your own assumptions about my actions. I made another post asking for someone to help me understand what I did wrong, so I'm obviously intent on correcting my mistake, but you simply ignored that post and repeated yourself. You can't expect me to "quit being such a kid" if you won't tell me what it is that defines me as one, so maybe you should be helping me do something about it rather than continuing your condescending lectures.[/b][/quote]Originally posted by Azdel+Apr 30 2006, 09:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Azdel @ Apr 30 2006, 09:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
I'm not saying you can't start a debate, I'm just saying, before you go all crazy with it, please take into consideration of others thoughts.
Quit being such a kid, and quit jumping to conclusions.
And no need to flame me, that's pretty harsh.
*sigh* This is a great example on how you're being a kid.
I wasn't refering to your past post talking to Tasoli, I was refering to you talking to me in a rude manner.
Look, I'm moving right now, I'm sorry, I just jumped on to see what was going on, and I'm getting yelled at by some oddball who has a problem with others perspections.
So I'll just be on my way, lots of hauling to do.
I don't mean to be a... Mean Moderater, but you can't always be happy go lucky.
cheers.
Azdel
Cadet
*sigh* This is a great example on how you're being a kid.Originally posted by killarai+Apr 30 2006, 03:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (killarai @ Apr 30 2006, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
I'm not saying you can't start a debate, I'm just saying, before you go all crazy with it, please take into consideration of others thoughts.
Quit being such a kid, and quit jumping to conclusions.
And no need to flame me, that's pretty harsh.
That doesn't really answer my question. You still haven't explained how having a discussion automatically qualifies as picking a fight. You tell me to stop jumping to conclusions, yet you won't explain your own assumptions about my actions. I made another post asking for someone to help me understand what I did wrong, so I'm obviously intent on correcting my mistake, but you simply ignored that post and repeated yourself. You can't expect me to "quit being such a kid" if you won't tell me what it is that defines me as one, so maybe you should be helping me do something about it rather than continuing your condescending lectures.
I wasn't refering to your past post talking to Tasoli, I was refering to you talking to me in a rude manner.
Look, I'm moving right now, I'm sorry, I just jumped on to see what was going on, and I'm getting yelled at by some oddball who has a problem with others perspections.
So I'll just be on my way, lots of hauling to do.
I don't mean to be a... Mean Moderater, but you can't always be happy go lucky.
cheers.
[/b][/quote]Your observations were actually very astute Killarai. You WERE talking to a kid. My younger cousin spent this last week with me, and apparently, he'd been using my computer without me realizing it. I never actually posted in this thread myself. I'm really sorry about this whole mess. I'll make sure nothing like this happens again. Anyway, I have to go check some other forums to see what trouble he may have gotten me into elsewhere. Sorry again.