I'm going to put my 2 cents in as I've heard this argument before and I've played/play tabel top games. D&D and Runequest(I believe this is the name of the game, I've never played, but understand the concepts, it's Rune something anyways) are kind of the grandaddies of MMOs. Now, the important part is that whatever the name of that Rune game, it was based on skills unlike D&D which has levels, AC, spell resist etc. I'm going to jump forward a bit and talk about Shadow Run, which I'm more familiar with, and also is skill based, like the Rune game which brought it about.
If you have, or in the future play table top games, you should definitely try playing D&D and also Shadowrun. Now, I know D&D is more medieval fantasy, while Shadowrun is Cyberpunk/Fantasy, but if you look at just the "rules" I believe Shadowrun is a hell of a lot more fun. Usually, I prefer complete fantasy, but the rules in Shadowrun are what make it fun, and more of what I hope to see in MMOs in the future. Shadowrun makes it more like real life then D&D where everything is pre-defined and you only have pre-cast molds to choose from.
In Shadowrun if I wanted, I could create a character with lets say, all gambling skills. Bluffing, Poker, Black Jack etc. I could essentially create anything I want, anything you can do in the real world (and a lot that you can't) you can choose as a skill. In addition to this, everyone has the same (HP). In Shadowrun, there is no (HP) you don't gain more as your character increases in power. There are wounds, and usually armor doesn't make much of a difference... Wounds are the same for everyone, Light, Moderate, Serious, Deadly. 10 Light wounds would = Death doesn't matter even if you're a dragon (granted, wouldn't be easy to hit the dragon but...) I find this interesting b/c lets say I've been playing a character 2 years, and you're fairly new, and you've got me in the sights of your sniper rifle 2000 yards away, blam! You get really good rolls and my brain is mush. That's why I love Shadowrun...Now I will stop rambling...
If you have, or in the future play table top games, you should definitely try playing D&D and also Shadowrun. Now, I know D&D is more medieval fantasy, while Shadowrun is Cyberpunk/Fantasy, but if you look at just the "rules" I believe Shadowrun is a hell of a lot more fun. Usually, I prefer complete fantasy, but the rules in Shadowrun are what make it fun, and more of what I hope to see in MMOs in the future. Shadowrun makes it more like real life then D&D where everything is pre-defined and you only have pre-cast molds to choose from.
In Shadowrun if I wanted, I could create a character with lets say, all gambling skills. Bluffing, Poker, Black Jack etc. I could essentially create anything I want, anything you can do in the real world (and a lot that you can't) you can choose as a skill. In addition to this, everyone has the same (HP). In Shadowrun, there is no (HP) you don't gain more as your character increases in power. There are wounds, and usually armor doesn't make much of a difference... Wounds are the same for everyone, Light, Moderate, Serious, Deadly. 10 Light wounds would = Death doesn't matter even if you're a dragon (granted, wouldn't be easy to hit the dragon but...) I find this interesting b/c lets say I've been playing a character 2 years, and you're fairly new, and you've got me in the sights of your sniper rifle 2000 yards away, blam! You get really good rolls and my brain is mush. That's why I love Shadowrun...Now I will stop rambling...
I'm intrigued about Shadowrun. I've never played the tabletop version, but I have played a game with that title for the snes. Interesting gameplay, but more importantly it had an interesting setting. It was definately cyberpunk, but it had stuff like dwarves, orcs and voodoo. I'm curious how you expand your skills in a completely skill-based game. In D&D 3.5 (a mix between levels and skills), everytime you gained a new level you get a certain amount of points to spread out amongst your skills. I'm curious how this works in a pure skill based game though.
I might actually give Shadowrun a look, though I fear my buddies prefer fantasy settings for PnP.
I might actually give Shadowrun a look, though I fear my buddies prefer fantasy settings for PnP.
Well I can explain more Volund...Shadowrun is the PnP game I have the most experience with, and while the SNES game was ok, it barely touches the tip of Shadowrun. You and your friends should give it a shot, even if they prefer fantasy(as I do) they will love, love Shadowrun, I promise you. Like you said, there is still a lot of fantasy in it.
Some lore on the world: Essentially, in 20something AD, we as a world are more technologically advanced then we are now, corporations essentially rule the world. Magic begins seeping back into the world, people turn into Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Trolls, etc. That's why Shadowrun is interesting...b/c it's definitely Cyberpunk, but it's also definitely fantasy. You can be a mage or you can be a Street Samurai cyber warrior, with a cybernetic arm and wired reflexes...
About advancing skills...All advancement is based upon Karma points which are rewarded primarily by GM discretion. So, lets say that I have Hand 2 Hand Fighting 6 Blue Dragon Kung Fu 7 (The 7 would be a specialization). You would need (if I remember correctly) 14 karma points to increase the 7 to an 8. Attributes would work the same. It's a really neat system, which allows a lot of leeway, but also has almost no errors. It's a hell of a lot of fun, especially b/c the "runs" missions, can be awesome. You're not going to steal some dragon's treasure, instead, you have to assassinate some yakuza boss for instance.
Some lore on the world: Essentially, in 20something AD, we as a world are more technologically advanced then we are now, corporations essentially rule the world. Magic begins seeping back into the world, people turn into Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Trolls, etc. That's why Shadowrun is interesting...b/c it's definitely Cyberpunk, but it's also definitely fantasy. You can be a mage or you can be a Street Samurai cyber warrior, with a cybernetic arm and wired reflexes...
About advancing skills...All advancement is based upon Karma points which are rewarded primarily by GM discretion. So, lets say that I have Hand 2 Hand Fighting 6 Blue Dragon Kung Fu 7 (The 7 would be a specialization). You would need (if I remember correctly) 14 karma points to increase the 7 to an 8. Attributes would work the same. It's a really neat system, which allows a lot of leeway, but also has almost no errors. It's a hell of a lot of fun, especially b/c the "runs" missions, can be awesome. You're not going to steal some dragon's treasure, instead, you have to assassinate some yakuza boss for instance.
Rrr3311z
Scout
Don't forget one of the longest running MMORPG's out, Ultima Online, pure skill based.
Ultima Online Has been up for 8 years, still huge playerbase. :blink:
But like I said, every mmorpg has a randomizer to their skills/attacks/defenses/etc
And like all of the mmorpg's, D&D had it.
But I think that's just about it, and I'm damn sure someone would have made it anyways.
Ultima Online Has been up for 8 years, still huge playerbase. :blink:
But like I said, every mmorpg has a randomizer to their skills/attacks/defenses/etc
And like all of the mmorpg's, D&D had it.
But I think that's just about it, and I'm damn sure someone would have made it anyways.
I was actually considering trying out Ultima Online about a month ago. Sounded like it had some wonderful sandbox style mechanics, plus it sounded more challenging than the current crop of mmos. So I started reading reviews, and a lot of people were saying how much better it was before (EA?) took over. After finding out exactly what these differences were, I decided to look into the free servers. Found a site that lists the top 200 Ultima Online player-run servers. Got suspicious when the ranks completely changed once every hour or so (the one ranked first dropped to like 35 or something). Forgot about it after that, got snookered into a free trial of CoV by one of my buddies.
As for Shadowrun, I know the snes game is "the tip of the iceburg". As for trying it out, I'm gonna try to convince my friends to give it a shot (we tried a different game than the D&D system once - GURPS, and it failed horribly). It does sound really good though. I'm going to try to find some resources on it tonight.
As for Shadowrun, I know the snes game is "the tip of the iceburg".
As for trying it out, I'm gonna try to convince my friends to give it a shot (we tried a different game than the D&D system once - GURPS, and it failed horribly). It does sound really good though. I'm going to try to find some resources on it tonight.