Discussion in 'Open Chat' started by Kevin, Jun 18, 2008.
I don't understand, frankly, why anybody would really want to vote for McCain. I can see voting for him because you're so opposed to Obama's policies... I can see voting for him because you believe fervently in continuing the Bush legacy. I can even see voting for McCain because you're a stone-cold racist or a small minded bigot or whatever -- that's one of the downsides to living in a democracy.
What I don't see is how someone could really be excited to be voting for McCain. He seems like like a brittle, phony, doddering old man.
It's the game of US politics. People are excited for McCain not because of him personally or for even his campaign promises that he is stumping but rather for the fact that he is the "Republican" candidate. The US political system is so broken down that it has come down to which party can get the larger number of its members to vote. And, as we saw in 2000, if the number of votes are pretty close then it becomes a matter of which party controls the decision makers in the voting process.
McCain selecting Palin as a running mate is one of the most bizarre things in recent politics but it doesn't really matter because the "true" Republicans will vote for the ticket and smile while doing it.
It is time for a change but unless something radical happens then we are doomed to futility.
Kevin, that's sort of my point. I don't know how many people are actually going to vote for McCain -- most of the people who flip that lever will just be casting their vote for the Republican candidate du jour, and not for McCain specifically.
One thing that has amazed me about this presidential campaign is how little substance there really is behind the GOP ticket. Every campaign and candidate lies, of course, but the McCain team seems to be extraordinarily shameless about it. They keep tossing out lines that are patently empty and beyond any framework of truth -- "McCain is a renegade, a maverick! Palin has plenty of experience! The Democrats are the ones that have made gas prices skyrocket, caused the mortgage crisis and put our country trillions of dollars into debt!" -- and people seem to be blithely accepting them.
Then again... when I was watching football this Sunday (go Panthers!), I saw several Budweiser commercials... and they all talked about how great this beer was, the barley and the hops, beechwood aging, etc. And it all sounded good until I remembered that Budweiser actually tastes like felgercarb. So is the lack of substance behind the McCain/Palin message just a logical outgrowth of the whole "Budweiser, king of beers" phenomenon?
With the McCain ticket, I believe that the emptiness is not necessarily a reflection of our current society but rather with the fact that McCain will say & do anything to be POTUS. His stance on issues changes with whatever group he is talking to to the point where anything he says is just fluff.
Ever watch a movie or TV show where the gag is that a political debate can be won by answering every question with a statement that really doesn't say anything? That is McCain.
Now don't get me wrong... I am not exactly a card carrying Democrat that is wholly behind Obama/Biden either. When it comes to US elections the voting process usually comes down to the lesser of two evils and sometimes that is a hard choice. This year the lesser choice should be pretty apparent to most people.
Wanted to relate this story. Emblematic of the strange times we live in.
I'm sitting in a Chick-Fil-A in Winston-Salem, NC. A guy is sitting with his kid (or grandkid) right behind me. The guy is white haired, thin, balding; the son is maybe ten or eleven years old. They don't know that I'm listening in.
DAD: Looks like the Chinese are going to buy out Morgan Stanley.
KID: Who's that?
DAD: It's like the last investment bank left in America. The Chinese pretty much own America at this point.
KID: How can they own America?
DAD: They just do. And the funny thing is, they're communist. We won the Cold War, and they still own most of our economy.
KID: Why is that?
(Here I brace myself for the Sean-Hannity-esque diatribe about how Democrats and liberals have sold out this country.)
DAD: It's all because of the Republicans. It's the mess made by Reagan-Bush-Bush. They're all corrupt, and they've ruined this country.
SON: Ronald Reagan? I read about him in school...
DAD: Well, he was the worst of all. Just about wrecked all the social programs in this country, drove up our deficits that kids like you will someday have to pay back...
And so on, and so forth. I am so used to hearing the traditional right-wing rant in this most red of states that I live in... it threw me to suddenly hear the same kind of venom, of vitriol, being expressed about the other side.
In similar news... America is finally waking up and realizing that we're in too much of a muck to continue going down the same old path with the same old people. I'm getting more and more optimistic that, this time, maybe things will really change.
Looking back at the campaign up to now, did anyone think it would be as close as its' been recently.......if anything, there's been surprise after surprise this election cycle.......for instance:
(1)did anyone this time last year think either McCain OR Obama would be their parties' respective candidates?
(2)McCain picking of Sarah Palin as his VP was IMO a bold but risky gamechanger.....bold in that he's essentially offering an olive branch to women voters(especially those who voted for Hillary in the Democratic primaries), but risky in that it could undercut his attacks' on Obama's supposed inexperience
(3)considering that its' been a horrid 2 years for the GOP since the 2006 Congressional elections, its' it weird that the Democrats aren't way ahead of the Republicans at the moment
(4)remember all the talk from the Democrats about how they wanted to remake the electoral map and try capturing some traditionally "red" states such as North Carolina, for instance? Unless the polls change radically prior to Election Day, it looks as though we'll still be sweating out who wins Ohio, Florida, etc....
Is it just me, or is this going be another one of those close, we-won't-know-who-won-til'-morning type elections?
I can't see how it matters much. The days of having a "hero" like Alexander in your army are long over, if they really did exist.
Yet this is Sci-Fi
The powers that be preach how one person can make a difference, but the truth of the matter is diametrically opposite. One you are.
You make the difference, so don't tie either your life or happiness to another.
Unless you want the job, in which case that could be used as evidence against you for being "Nuts".
And yet, what company doesn't shiver with the excitement of the hire of a new CEO, one who will turn the company around, boost stock prices and make everything better? What sports fan doesn't feel like his team could win the world championship, if only they had this coach or that coach, or if only they could add that one more player? What parent doesn't feel that their child is an honor student, unrecognized and under appreciated by their imbecile of a teacher, and if only they could get in a new classroom, a new school, suddenly everything would be better???
The idea that we can't possibly pull it around seems hopelessly pessimistic. Yes, the situation right now is dire -- our economy is on the brink of collapse, we are massively in debt, the rest of the world totters in their affection for us between loathing and indifference, and our government reeks of incompetence and corruption. But remember that this wasn't always the case. Eight years ago, we had a balanced budget with a $600 billion surplus, gas was $1.59 a gallon, we had brokered peace deals in Ireland, the Middle East and North Korea, and we were cutting down the size of our government while simultaneously making it more effective and efficient. Sure, things look bad, but if we could fall into a hole this deep in just eight short years, who's to say we couldn't pull ourselves right back out again? We're like a football team going in at halftime down 35-0. Sure, it's a big deficit, but if the other side could score 35 points in a half, so can we, and with the right QB, the right coaching, maybe we could score 36 points and actually win the game.
So yeah, I'm an optimist, but I'm also a realist. The United States is standing on a steep precipice right now, no question about it. If we keep heading in the direction we're heading -- and I'm sorry, but that's essentially what the McCain campaign is guaranteeing us we will do -- then we're going to collapse as a superpower, and begin the long fall down to irrelevance. I do believe that one person, one leader, can right this ship -- I do believe that what we need right now, more than anything, is competence and inspiration, two qualities that I believe that Barack Obama personifies more than anyone else.
Hope & change are two drugs the pusher sells for the dealer. Opiates to placate the masses.
We need many things, but false hope isn't one of them. We're over extended trying to do everything at once. Feed the world, Police the world, (both with no gratitude), and dictate policy through force if necessary, practice ultimate greed in office (corporate & Government) and then "hit the silk" in a Golden Parachute.
More of the same (with sugary rhetoric), is more of the same.
Rezko in Chicago, Reverend Wright, and a "Siamese" attachment to a mainstream party (of the same kind of crooks, with a different handle) Teddy/Hillary (both with blood on their hands, Mary Jo, & Vince) with Hollywood money. Another deadly circus.
The "Greens" ... a joke.
"There aint a dimes difference between a Republican and a Democrat" George Wallace
Libertarian ... if change is what you really want.
A lone hero (without being a "Toadie" to many) in this (Political) system? Better chance finding a Unicorn.
If you wanna see me do my thing, baby pull my string ... (Puppet Man -by- Tom Jones)
I don't think anyone is selling false hope. (I think the McCain campaign is selling false change, but that's a separate rant.) The question is, how do you approach a bad situation? Do you throw up your hands, or do you roll up your sleeves?
I think America is still a great country, even with the damage done over the past eight years. We still have tremendous potential, but we need to really get our priorities in order -- we need to invest billions of dollars here at home on broadband access, clean fusion energy, a revamped educational system, etc., instead of throwing good money after bad in Iraq, in bailing out billionaires, in tax cuts for the Sam Waltons of the world.
I don't wish to get into a P-----g contest, but here are some facts about this fella and his policies.
In the last six months 263 killed (murdered mostly with guns) in Chicago. (having one of the strictest gun control laws in America), 221 killed in Iraq.
State pension fund for Illinois $44 Billion in debt.
Cook County sales tax 10.25%, highest in the country.
Chicago & Illinois school system: Third most expensive per child after New York & California,
Top 100 (lower the number the better) ... not there
bottom 100 (higher the number the worse) ... 98, 92, 91, 87, 85, 81, 69, 62, 40
Illinois & Chicago
Senators Barrack Obama & Dick Durbin
Representative Jesse Jackson Jr.
Governor Rod Blogojevich
State House Leader Mike Madigan
Attorney General Lisa Madigan (daughter)
Mayor Richard Daley Jr ... All Democrats
Do you judge people by their record?
The way they keep their own house? ... most do.
I'm self sufficient and a survivor.
Politics is BS
Bush is a dolt, but Obama ... is not the "Messiah"
Well, there's one endorsement..........
Well, it looks like that [strike]when[/strike] if McCain loses the election, that it will be Palin who will be the designated sacrifice.
I know McCain said Americans wouldn't pick lettuce (all season in Arizona) for 50 dollars an hour.
All I know or who have ever met would, except for a handful ...
$100,000 a year? I'm there ... working overtime.
Absolutely clueless, the both of them. New Feudalism,
Your "Choice" is as to whether what is pre-picked for you is either ...
1. Really really great, or
2. Super-duper great.
Love a choice that was never really yours to make, now that's SciFi.
To the original point/discussion, don't get too excited over either. the world will turn anyway, and what will "change" will fit on the head of a pin.
Lesser of two "chosen for you" evils is ... lose-lose.
Sacrifice? No... I honestly think that the kook-wing of the Republican Party believes that Sarah Palin represents their best chance in 2012.
McCain is their sacrifice, their Bob Dole, the GOP version of Walter Mondale. In a year when everything is stacked against you, run the wooden old party guy, as a reward for his faithful service, with no expectation of winning.
If anybody thinks that Palin actually has the slimmest of chances of carrying the ticket in 2012 then they have been smoking a bit too much peyote.
Carter had Billy. George Junior had Jeb. Clinton had Roger. McCain has Joe.
Did John McCain's Brother Make 911 Call About Traffic?
Separate names with a comma.