SiriCerasi
Cadet
Oooooh yeah and in the beginning, when Legolas and Aragorn and Gimli are running, Gimli's quote about dwarves being "natural sprinters" :lol:
lol! I love Gimil's character...and him and Legolas are hilarious. "elf friend"
I also love the scene with Legolas and Aragorn arguing...and as Legolas speaks in Elvish, Aragorn says "Then I shall die as one of them." It always gives me goosebumps.
And to stick with my Eowyn ways...I love when she talks of her fear...a cage...
I also love the scene with Legolas and Aragorn arguing...and as Legolas speaks in Elvish, Aragorn says "Then I shall die as one of them." It always gives me goosebumps.
And to stick with my Eowyn ways...I love when she talks of her fear...a cage...
*Agent Legolas*
Cadet
Yes, I was really happy that they took that line of Eowyn's directly from the book.
SiriCerasi
Cadet
Oooh yeah that was a GREAT scene.btvaughn said:
And yes, i was so happy when they put that Eowyn line in! There are so few strong female characters in Tolkiens work, so that made me very happy
I remember re-reading TTT a day or so ago and I know they didn’t take so many lines to it, but I was completely surprised when I read that scene where she and Aragorn nearly have the same conversation as they did in the movie. :lol: Apparently I forgot that part… And Eowyn IS an amazing character…better than that other female…*cough*
And Eowyn IS an amazing character…better than that other female…*cough*
SiriCerasi
Cadet
*cough*arwendie*cough* Yes Eowyn ROCKS!
Yeah, as I'm reading through all the books I read a line and say "Hey that's in the movies!" Although it's in a different book, or a different person says it it's still there!
Yes Eowyn ROCKS!Yeah, as I'm reading through all the books I read a line and say "Hey that's in the movies!" Although it's in a different book, or a different person says it it's still there!
Alassè Culnàmo
Cadet
Poor, poor, Glorfindel. He got cut because LOTR apparently needed a strong female lead that wasn't a lead in the books. Life's unfair isn't it?
a.k.a.Kate_Jones
Cadet
just because she was in the books doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed in the movie. and she WAS in the books. her story is there. it's in the appendicies. ^_^K. Ackles said:
there's a great GreenBook essay (when is a GreenBook essay NOT great? :lol
about the whole Arwen debate. I'll go find it.
SiriCerasi
Cadet
yeah teh story is in the appendicies ^_^ i knwo she didnt save frodo, and i miss glorfindel but that was my fav part of the movie although i hate the romance pargts, they seem so... soap operaish ^_^ and it is good to have more female leads
although i hate the romance pargts, they seem so... soap operaish ^_^ and it is good to have more female leads a.k.a.Kate_Jones
Cadet
found it. ^_^ I would normally link it but I *really* like this one so read it please.
SPECIAL GUEST:
Lúthien - Arwen's Defense
Ask any die-hard Ringer what they think of Arwen Evenstar, or more specifically, the prospect of Arwen Evanstar as interpreted by Peter Jackson, and the response will most likely range from a grim look of terror to a long tirade about how she's going to destroy the movies. Fans seem to be able to stomach omission (did anyone really expect PJ to announce that Robin Williams would be playing Tom Bombadil?), but the notion of addition sets the foot-fur of even the staunchest hobbit on end. What purpose could Arwen serve in the movies, after all, other than to lure our esteemed, brooding hero into a bunch of goo-goo love scenes, á la Titanic?
Well, first of all, don't underestimate those goo-goo love scenes. As Anwyn aptly pointed out in her Green Books article Men Are From Gondor, Women are From Lothlorien, the women of the Lord of the Rings are often strong motivational forces in the hearts of their men (whether they should be anything more than just motivational forces is quite another matter, which I'll leave to the feminists). The fact remains that whether Aragorn is escaping from Moria, battling orcs, or walking the Paths of the Dead, he's always thinking about Arwen. Because Tolkien writes through hobbit eyes, we become acquainted with Aragorn not through his internal thoughts, but through his actions. However, when we are allowed a brief glimpse into Aragorn's mind, his thoughts are more often than not about Arwen. Out of all the stories he chooses to tell to the hobbits on Weathertop, it's the story of Lúthien and Beren that he most eagerly relates-a story that must serve as a constant source of inspiration and hope for him. Later, in the forest of Lothloríen, we're reminded of the springtime of Arwen and Aragorn's love, when they plighted their troth and chased each other around Cerin Amroth with flowers in their hair. Gazing at Cerin Amroth, Aragorn lets us in on his thoughts for the first time when he whispers "Arwen vanimelda, namarië" before turning to Frodo. Finally, when he receives Arwen's banner before walking the Paths of the Dead, secretly wrought, he already knows what it is without having to be told. This implies unseen communications, conversations held between Arwen and himself that Tolkien doesn't report to us. Or perhaps Arwen and Aragorn are so deeply connected they're practically psychic. In either case, they are always aware of each other's movements and actions. Arwen's presence in the movies is not an addition to the original Tolkien; it's already there. PJ is illustrating the back scenes which already exist, but are never shown.
And while Aragorn is battling against all the forces of evil, we've got to ask ourselves: what is he fighting for? It's not just to save Gondor, and it's not just to become King (such arrogance would never corrupt our Aragorn!)-he's fighting for the women of Middle Earth and for the things that the women represent: peace, serenity, prosperity, freedom. He's fighting so that the little folk of the Shire can gossip about their pipeweed, so that Ioreth and the other women of Gondor can do their laundry in the Anduin, so that the men of Middle Earth can focus on their homes and their families and have campouts in Ithilién. The life that Arwen is leading in Rivendell is not the dull world of needlepoint and poetry relegated to those who're left behind, but the last bastion of the type of life that Aragorn is hoping to reinstate, a preservation of Middle Earth family values, if you will. She symbolizes for Aragorn all that he's fighting for.
Of course, early reports indicate that Arwen will most likely be stealing Glorifindel's limelight in the race to the ford, but we must look at this from a movie producer's point of view. Their goal is to win the hearts of people who've never read The Lord of the Rings before (without alienating us, the dedicated fans). Arwen will be a neophyte's first glimpse of an elf, and given that her character plays such a crucial role in Aragorn's emotional life, it makes good sense to double the exposition of Aragorn's love and Intro to Elves 101 into one character and one scene (PJ is trying to convey as much information possible in the shortest amount of time, after all, in order to keep the movies from blossoming into a Wagner Ring Cycle). Furthermore, I'm sure New Line is well aware of the fact that out of all their target audiences, the mainstream female audience will be one of the hardest to hook, since women tend to shy away from fantasy and science fiction films (for reasons this female author does not understand). Arwen is one of the only female characters with a substantial part in all three movies-beefing up her role will give female viewers someone to latch onto early in the trilogy and then follow through the rest of the films.
Finally, Arwen's lineage must be considered. PJ and the folks at New Line seem to be playing up the fact that Arwen is an elf with a serious dilemma: the choice between remaining an immortal or following her love into death. In fact, her tag on the official website, designed to introduce viewers to the cast and the characters, says: "Arwen is the beautiful and bewitching elf who must choose between immortality and love." Sound familiar? If anyone thinks that Arwen is nothing but the cream to Aragorn's coffee, they should remember that her story and her choice is the quintessential Tolkien legend, foreshadowed by only two others in the whole history of Middle Earth: Lúthien Tinuviel and Idril Celebrindal. It's no small thing for an elf to marry a human. The first time it happened, Morgoth was overthrown and a silmaril wrested from his crown-quite a feat! The second time it happened, events were set in motion which eventually hastened the destruction of Gondolin. Arwen's love for Aragorn falls in a direct line from this depth of faith and devotion. We should applaud the fact that by enhancing Arwen's role, PJ is calling attention to the Silmarillion and the history of Middle Earth.
So, given that Arwen is Aragorn's constant emotional backdrop, why shouldn't she play a larger role in the movies? Goo-goo love scenes are not completely outside of Aragorn's character, anyway. He is a hopeless romantic, the last of a long line of hopeless romantics, starting all the way back with Beren and Turin. We can almost hear him singing Brian Adam's lyrics to Arwen as he works to overthrow Mordor: everything I do, I do it for you.
Oh, and a final note on Liv Tyler. Her acting credentials have been under attack for quite some time now, and admittedly, by working on such projects as Armageddon and Empire Records, she's done nothing to further her Oscar contention. However, for those of you who remain skeptical, rent Stealing Beauty and watch our future Arwen act her pants off (pun *somewhat* intended-go see the movie).
-- Lúthien
SPECIAL GUEST:
Lúthien - Arwen's Defense
Ask any die-hard Ringer what they think of Arwen Evenstar, or more specifically, the prospect of Arwen Evanstar as interpreted by Peter Jackson, and the response will most likely range from a grim look of terror to a long tirade about how she's going to destroy the movies. Fans seem to be able to stomach omission (did anyone really expect PJ to announce that Robin Williams would be playing Tom Bombadil?), but the notion of addition sets the foot-fur of even the staunchest hobbit on end. What purpose could Arwen serve in the movies, after all, other than to lure our esteemed, brooding hero into a bunch of goo-goo love scenes, á la Titanic?
Well, first of all, don't underestimate those goo-goo love scenes. As Anwyn aptly pointed out in her Green Books article Men Are From Gondor, Women are From Lothlorien, the women of the Lord of the Rings are often strong motivational forces in the hearts of their men (whether they should be anything more than just motivational forces is quite another matter, which I'll leave to the feminists). The fact remains that whether Aragorn is escaping from Moria, battling orcs, or walking the Paths of the Dead, he's always thinking about Arwen. Because Tolkien writes through hobbit eyes, we become acquainted with Aragorn not through his internal thoughts, but through his actions. However, when we are allowed a brief glimpse into Aragorn's mind, his thoughts are more often than not about Arwen. Out of all the stories he chooses to tell to the hobbits on Weathertop, it's the story of Lúthien and Beren that he most eagerly relates-a story that must serve as a constant source of inspiration and hope for him. Later, in the forest of Lothloríen, we're reminded of the springtime of Arwen and Aragorn's love, when they plighted their troth and chased each other around Cerin Amroth with flowers in their hair. Gazing at Cerin Amroth, Aragorn lets us in on his thoughts for the first time when he whispers "Arwen vanimelda, namarië" before turning to Frodo. Finally, when he receives Arwen's banner before walking the Paths of the Dead, secretly wrought, he already knows what it is without having to be told. This implies unseen communications, conversations held between Arwen and himself that Tolkien doesn't report to us. Or perhaps Arwen and Aragorn are so deeply connected they're practically psychic. In either case, they are always aware of each other's movements and actions. Arwen's presence in the movies is not an addition to the original Tolkien; it's already there. PJ is illustrating the back scenes which already exist, but are never shown.
And while Aragorn is battling against all the forces of evil, we've got to ask ourselves: what is he fighting for? It's not just to save Gondor, and it's not just to become King (such arrogance would never corrupt our Aragorn!)-he's fighting for the women of Middle Earth and for the things that the women represent: peace, serenity, prosperity, freedom. He's fighting so that the little folk of the Shire can gossip about their pipeweed, so that Ioreth and the other women of Gondor can do their laundry in the Anduin, so that the men of Middle Earth can focus on their homes and their families and have campouts in Ithilién. The life that Arwen is leading in Rivendell is not the dull world of needlepoint and poetry relegated to those who're left behind, but the last bastion of the type of life that Aragorn is hoping to reinstate, a preservation of Middle Earth family values, if you will. She symbolizes for Aragorn all that he's fighting for.
Of course, early reports indicate that Arwen will most likely be stealing Glorifindel's limelight in the race to the ford, but we must look at this from a movie producer's point of view. Their goal is to win the hearts of people who've never read The Lord of the Rings before (without alienating us, the dedicated fans). Arwen will be a neophyte's first glimpse of an elf, and given that her character plays such a crucial role in Aragorn's emotional life, it makes good sense to double the exposition of Aragorn's love and Intro to Elves 101 into one character and one scene (PJ is trying to convey as much information possible in the shortest amount of time, after all, in order to keep the movies from blossoming into a Wagner Ring Cycle). Furthermore, I'm sure New Line is well aware of the fact that out of all their target audiences, the mainstream female audience will be one of the hardest to hook, since women tend to shy away from fantasy and science fiction films (for reasons this female author does not understand). Arwen is one of the only female characters with a substantial part in all three movies-beefing up her role will give female viewers someone to latch onto early in the trilogy and then follow through the rest of the films.
Finally, Arwen's lineage must be considered. PJ and the folks at New Line seem to be playing up the fact that Arwen is an elf with a serious dilemma: the choice between remaining an immortal or following her love into death. In fact, her tag on the official website, designed to introduce viewers to the cast and the characters, says: "Arwen is the beautiful and bewitching elf who must choose between immortality and love." Sound familiar? If anyone thinks that Arwen is nothing but the cream to Aragorn's coffee, they should remember that her story and her choice is the quintessential Tolkien legend, foreshadowed by only two others in the whole history of Middle Earth: Lúthien Tinuviel and Idril Celebrindal. It's no small thing for an elf to marry a human. The first time it happened, Morgoth was overthrown and a silmaril wrested from his crown-quite a feat! The second time it happened, events were set in motion which eventually hastened the destruction of Gondolin. Arwen's love for Aragorn falls in a direct line from this depth of faith and devotion. We should applaud the fact that by enhancing Arwen's role, PJ is calling attention to the Silmarillion and the history of Middle Earth.
So, given that Arwen is Aragorn's constant emotional backdrop, why shouldn't she play a larger role in the movies? Goo-goo love scenes are not completely outside of Aragorn's character, anyway. He is a hopeless romantic, the last of a long line of hopeless romantics, starting all the way back with Beren and Turin. We can almost hear him singing Brian Adam's lyrics to Arwen as he works to overthrow Mordor: everything I do, I do it for you.
Oh, and a final note on Liv Tyler. Her acting credentials have been under attack for quite some time now, and admittedly, by working on such projects as Armageddon and Empire Records, she's done nothing to further her Oscar contention. However, for those of you who remain skeptical, rent Stealing Beauty and watch our future Arwen act her pants off (pun *somewhat* intended-go see the movie).
-- Lúthien
SiriCerasi
Cadet
Oooh that was good! I agree with most of what they say, and I think it was a good idea to put her in that role. But why did she hafta change from the brave elf who rode against the Nazgul to some wimpy one who cries and sits looking pretty?? *sigh*
I also didn't like that paragraph about how women are peace and serenity and should do laundry... :lol: that's the femenist in me speaking ^_^
I also didn't like that paragraph about how women are peace and serenity and should do laundry... :lol: that's the femenist in me speaking ^_^
a.k.a.Kate_Jones
Cadet
it doesn't say that they ARE, it says that they represent. or at least Arwen represents. ^_^ she's a feminine character in what is primarily a guy's movie. (most of the lead characters are guys, after all.)
I'm trying to get what you mean by sitting and crying and looking pretty. I mean, I get what you mean (which in itself doesn't make a lot of sense. :lol but what opportunities does she get in TTT to be the brave elf we saw in FOTR? her people are leaving middle-earth forever, she has to make a colossal decision about her future.... there's not a lot of time to kick some nazgul butt there. :lol: ^_^
I'm trying to get what you mean by sitting and crying and looking pretty. I mean, I get what you mean (which in itself doesn't make a lot of sense. :lol
but what opportunities does she get in TTT to be the brave elf we saw in FOTR? her people are leaving middle-earth forever, she has to make a colossal decision about her future.... there's not a lot of time to kick some nazgul butt there. :lol: ^_^
SiriCerasi
Cadet
I know, but its just such a drastic change. We first meet her riding against them, and then for the rest of the time she sits on her butt doing nothing.
SiriCerasi
Cadet
btw today is the 30th anniversay of J R R Tolkien's death
SiriCerasi
Cadet
yeahi know he was *sigh* sucha brilliant man
I finally saw TTT! 
it was reeeeally reallly good
but i was confused- during the Helms Deep war... didn't one of those dudes kill Legolas? he went down or something... he got struck on the back of his head... or maybe it wasn't Legolas, they guy had long blond hair though ^_^
WHERE'S THE GAG REEL ON THE SECOND DISC?????
it was reeeeally reallly good but i was confused- during the Helms Deep war... didn't one of those dudes kill Legolas? he went down or something... he got struck on the back of his head... or maybe it wasn't Legolas, they guy had long blond hair though ^_^
WHERE'S THE GAG REEL ON THE SECOND DISC?????
SiriCerasi
Cadet
YAAAAY NANCE! CONGRADULATIONS!
umm thats not Legolas :lol: its Haldir
umm thats not Legolas :lol: its Haldir
