A question to you guys in the US

Dyngo

Dyngo

Cadet
I saw an old documentary (from the 80th i think) and it brought up kids in school. And they did something called Pledge to the flag or something. All kids talking at the same time as the teacher and all standing up.

something like:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag and the united states of america."
blah blah...

The documentary didn't talk about that, it was about something else, but that caught my attention. Is that something you do in the first years of school? Or was this an exception perhaps (too some schools)? Or was this something that used to take place, but don't any more?

Every time I see patriotism take those forms it makes me scared... That's why I wonder?

(it was probably stage in the film, to look good.. but still)

I hope I don't step on any toes...
 
It's required in public schools, but private schools have a choice. That said, it's mostly a formality left over from earlier days when the country was really concerned about the thoughts going through it's kids' heads. Not sure if it was Cold War era or one of the World Wars, but in any event, the country really needed to show (and to some extent, confirm) it's spirit, so they introduced the "Pledge of Allegiance" to schools.

That's my understanding anyway.
 
In most public schools in the U.S., we're taught "The Pledge of Allegiance", and yes, it starts just like you mention. Check out Pledge of Allegiance - Wikipedia for more info.

My personal opinion on this? Well, please no flame wars, but... in my own personal life, I feel it is a good thing to teach children, in the respect that they should have pride and feel a sense of belonging to their country, and to it's people. As we get older though, we get jaded, as we realize the wrong doings of our country/politicians, and while an allegiance to ones own country is always preferred, there should be an allegiance to voting & making the country what you want it to be.

There is an extreme side to "pledging allegiance" which I don't particularly care for, and that is the "extreme" without a question: taking such pride and love in one's own country, that everyone else is lower class and basically, "scum". I have seen people take that approach, and it saddens me, for in my own life, I swear to my country, even with it's faults and severe problems... but I accept, acknowledge and vote in order to attempt to change what I feel needs changing.
 
Some people are die hards for it, such as regardless of where you are, what you're doing, and who you're with, you should take off your hat, stand, and say the pledge too.

Generally it's just a school thing, or sports.
 
I don't see why it should be seen as so scary. It's just like singing along with a national anthem, which I'm almost positive other countries do too.

The kids you are seeing aren't really thinking anything of it, let me assure you. While they are mouthing off the pledge like drones, in their minds they are thinking of lunch time and recess, not about "wow...this is a great thing we are doing.." That is, until middle school when you start getting the "under God" debates going.
 
Growing up, every morning in grade school we all stood, covered our hearts, faced the flag and said the pledge before class started. That lasted until about 4th grade (1994ish) when the practice seemed to be dropped. I'm not sure what prompted the drop but my little brother who is six years younger than me never had to say it.

It could have stopped earlier than that in most schools. My home town is largely southern/mid-western, we had paddlings as a valid form of punishment up until I was a sophmore in high school and there was an uproar from the public when the school decided to stop doing them. Very "old school" area, I'd imagine we were one of the last schools to stop saying the pledge.

There was a controvercy some time ago about the words "under God" in the pledge, I think all the uproar about that prompted a lot of schools and such to just stop the practice of saying it. Rather than choose either side of the conflict.

And yeah, I assure you most kids don't pay any attention to it. We always started our assemblies and pep rallies with the national anthem and most kids didn't even stand for that. America isn't a country of forced patrotism at a young age, our young people don't give a felgercarb about anything... ever. I promise XD
 
I my school system, we had to say the pledge up until high school, when the pledge was still recited at the start of morning announcements, but we weren't required to say it anymore (so no one did). We still had to stand for it though.

It really doesn't have much meaning anymore, just something that bored kids stand to do each and every morning, never really thinking about what it really is about.
 
Thanks for your answers all!

I sort of understand the meaning and all, but I would make a different approach, to kids at least, regarding respect and pride. But it was not my intention to go into political detail, as that could end up in a silly flame war. My "scary"-note was abit provoking, I know, that's why I ended with the "toe"-part..

When I grew up (in Sweden) we sang the national anthem the day school ended for summer break, but that was about it. And I had no clue what so ever why we did, it was just "something you did".

I tend to ask question like this, because most of the time when I hear something from America (or any other country for that matter) I never get the answers for "why" and what people think about it.. just that "that's what they do". And I hate that...
 
The "Pledge of Allegiance" always pissed me off, even when I was a good little boy that went to church and believed what he was told. *groan* Though, at that time, it was only because we were forced to do something that I disagreed with, and had nothing to do with my religious views. My country wants to win me over, it'd damn well get up off its ass and do something worthwhile, 'cause I don't do the whole brainwashing nonsense.

Anymore, it infuriates me. I'm anti-patriotism in pretty much all forms, and the "under God" line? This isn't a theocracy, damn it! I'm fine with institutions, but "the System" can kiss my stark white ass.

Children shouldn't be subjected to any kind of patriotism or religion, as both are personal beliefs, and a child won't stop to ask "Why?" We might as well make child soldiers, if that's the route we want to be taking! Heh, "Land of the Free"... Free to do as we're told, anyway. :-L
 
We went to church as well (the last day before summer break), forgot to say that.. also something that I never really understood as a kid. They try to "keep" those traditions in schools nowadays as well, but as the mixed cultures and religions are introduced (and anti-religion for that matter) it's more or less free for kids to gather in church and/or sing the national anthem today.

What's scares me about patriotism is the different forms it tends to take and how its preached and if it's not OK to question.

I would ask my son not to pledge any allegiance to anything. I see no reason why anyone would need to.
___
edit
oh, and to Watchmaker:
To grow up in Sweden is, as far as I understand, very different to USA. If it's worse or better depends on how you look at things, I guess, but very different.
 
Well, at the very least, the government was never the one that made me go to church. That'd've brought up all kinds of issues, tough stains, and property damage.
 
Chiming in a little late on this discussion but oh well :smiley:2

It shouldn't be mandatory in any regards but should always be an option for those kids that want to do it. Ya ya I know the under god part stirs up a lot of heated debate all around the country but still its one of those things that lets people have pride in their country and their flag. But still needs to be an option an not a requirement since we are still a free country.

People are gonna always disagree with some thing or another the government does and we have the right to say what we feel against or for what their doing. Pledging to the flag is just an old time belief that you have pride in your flag (which does still mean something) and your country.
 
Can't help noticing the people that say the Pledge with the most fervorare the ones signing against --- rights, abortion, stem cells, and immigration. Liberty and justice for all? Not. :P
 
Welcome to America, the land of the "free."

Still, we have more money than anyone else, so we must be doing something right.
 
While I generally see myself as patriotic, I view the way we use the Pledge of Allegiance as wrong.

We ask young school children, who are not legally old enough to make any binding contracts on thier own, to recite what could be viewed as a binding pledge of, well, allegiance. And yet once an American reaches adulthood they are never again asked to recite the Pledge, when it could be technically a binding statement of intention, very similar to the words spoken during a swearing in ceremony used by the military or police forces.

The children reciting the Pledge don't understand the meaning of what they are saying, only that they have been instructed to do so by an adult authority figure.

Aelwulfe
 
Dyngo said:
The documentary didn't talk about that, it was about something else, but that caught my attention. Is that something you do in the first years of school? Or was this an exception perhaps (too some schools)? Or was this something that used to take place, but don't any more?
Click to expand...

I think it may also depend on the teacher. My favorite teacher in High School (He was in the Army Reserves too) said it was my choice, and I had (and sometimes still do) a lot of negative feelings toward being forced to do so.

On the other side of it, my homeroom teacher (first two weeks of school we had homeroom. Don't know why it's stupid) almost kicked me out because I refused to do so.
 
Yes its required as they said. Its interesting as well that the final line is "freedom and justice for all" and yet they force you to pledge alegance to a symbol.

One my daughters once refused to do it in grade school and the teacher forced her to sit at her desk for hours with her head down. Fortunately later on this teacher was suspended for other issues with students.
 

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