Role Play Death

Navarre said:
How about hardcore realistic perma death? One good sword chop to your exposed neck and you are gone forever, be you level 1 or level 50. Nah... That is too hardcore, even for me :cool:

Hah, ya know, I really wouldn't mind a couple servers with perma rules. I invest too much time into my character with RP to play my mains on it, but I think it'd be kind of fun to mess around in when the mood so strikes.
 
I love when death is detrimental (I love the new Spell Check in FireFox 2.0, btw :smiley: detremental -> detrimental ) enough to be avoided. I don't care for exp penalties so much. I prefer it taking a long time to be able to get back to full health/stamina. You die. You get dragged to a Cleric and Healer. Healer fixes your wounds. Cleric brings you to life. You tip both generously (silver nugget? no.. flawless diamond!). Then you rest while your stamina and spirit return to full strength. Maybe 20-30 minutes later you are finally ready to head back out to battle.
 
The major problem I see with the balance between the harsh realities of death and the unrealistic popping back up to kill your killer is that it weighs in on Simu's "less tedium" idea.

You can't craft a game around not running around collecting countless herbs, mass manufacturing generic items to sell, and sitting on long flight paths, just to then force the player to sit around for half an hour if they die. Many people can only play an hour a night and while I personally wouldn't mind stiffer penalties, it's because it would only eat a tiny portion of my game play. To some other unfortunate, it would eat half their time.

Now, to look at this whole death thing from another angle:

Of course, it all depends on how much death happens too. In my opinion, if we want a stronger RP system, we shouldn't be talking about what happens when you die, but how to make death a rarer event. I mean, people get knocked out of commission all the time, end up in the hospital in traction and whatnot, but they only die once.

Perhaps, maiming, being knocked unconsious, or other such states of not-quite-death could replace a traditional "oh no I died AGAIN" system.
 
*whines*But I want to play as an assassin!

Seriously though, if HJ offers the ability to play as an assassin then death needs to be a true death. If not, then the deed is pointless.
Now if HJ offered a "build your mod" kind of thing, then death would actually that. But since LOTS of people would be playing, no one would agree on letting there character be assassinated, especially if there high lvl (assuming it could be done).
I guess more information about how the game will work will determine how I want to play.
 
Suppose death needs to have a costly cost. Otherwise no one would mind and it'd be a simple time grind one way or another. Wait 20 minutes, kill so many mobs to get the debt back, corpse run, whatever. We pay in time as is.
I don't mind the 'I've only got 3 mans left' outlook on the game. Like a good Mario Bros. game, let you earn lives and pay them at various costs of time and/or effort. If you run out of lives, maybe you can bum one off of your friend like in the ol' side scroll beat'em up games. Otherwise you're a pestering pest of a spirit doing pestering spirit things.
 
A nice harsh death is great for the assassin types like me and you...but it sucks for those who have invested so much time in their characters and just logged in to have some fun for a couple hours. I've always been involved with large RP groups where I never had a problem RPing assassinations. Playing with other who understand RP helps a lot. Besides, from an RP standpoint you wouldn't want to assassinate somebody without some sort of mutual agreement.

We have to realize that most people play games for enjoyment and entertainment. The last thing they want to do is sit around for a long time in the "dead" state before they can start actually playing the game.

While I would like a death system that has consequences, even spending 10 minutes going through the "death" process is TOO long for me when I'm paying $15+ a month for entertainment. Not to mention one of the most annoying things in an MMO is constantly waiting for at least 1 of your 6 party members while they make their way back to the group. I've prolly spent more time sitting around and waiting than I have actually playing...then again, as an RPer, that's not always a bad thing for me.

I think one solution (at least in pvp) would be to use faction/reputation as a consequence. Make it to where your social standing/rep will take a hit if you commit haneous acts and murder (unless it's in a war/battle circumstance). Of course this is more of a question of PVP than the death system, but it should limit the deaths somewhat. I do agree that making death a little more rare would be a nice thing to see. Like Gate said, it should be a lot more likely to be knocked out or incompacitated. I'd like to see some AI that doesn't keep beating you to death once you drop unconscious. From an RP standpoint, if you fall in battle, it makes sense that you could be saved from death by medics and the like.

As far as popping back up to kill your killer...I'm fond of a "grace/halo" period for revenge. Make it where you can't attack your murderer for a decent amount of time. It'd actually make manhunts a bit more fun as revenge would have to be planned and hunted rather than just spawn/run/swing/kill/dead on the low health player who had just killed you 45 seconds ago.

MY IDEA!
If there is a fame system where NPCs and such view characters based on their fame, that could be used as a consequence to death. After all, people will view you as a fool if you constantly go out and get yourself deadlike. And if you happen to survive many many battle perhaps your fame will rise. A system like that would not hender people from playing for awhile because they died, but it might make quest or items unavailable from NPCs because they aren't quite famous enough. That would reward those who make a point not to die as well.
 
Heh, anyone remember the "death" discussions on the old SWG dev boards?

I am in the camp of death needs to be painful.
Being the odd twisted sort that I am, I actually liked corpse runs back in EQ1... some of my greatest moments were in making really difficult corpse runs. Though they did tend to make you stay up way past your bed time..... just can't go to bed when you have an unretrieved corpse with all your worldly possessions on it....
 
I liked old GS3 murder and death rules.

If you killed another character the following happened.. whether you thought you were justified or not.

Upon getting close to any town or gate, hidden <rogue skills> or not you were arrested stripped of everything you owned and thrown into jail. You sat in jail for a while <few minutes> and then dragged before a judge. The judge then declared your guilt. Yes you were always guilty if you went before a judge and then fined. Murder was an extremely costly fine. Then you were released naked back out into the world. You could then pay your fine and retrieve all of your belongings or re equip your character and have the fine held over your head in which case the collecter would show up from time to time and take any cash you happen to have on you. It was a neat system. Pickpocketing was handled the same way and rogues typically were very famaliar with the jailhouse :P. Pickpocketing fines were not too steep. Murder was astronomically expensive and avoided at all costs. It kept murder at a very low rate. By the way murdering anyone anywhere in the game caused this arrest warrant to be issued against the murderer.

Seiv
 
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