Season 3 The code and the key

[freakforalias]

Tell me what you think...

I have a feeling that while Sloane probably knew about Sydney during those two years, I think Irina did too because they Sloane and her were still working together. I wonder if Irina came in contact with Julia surprised to see it was Syd.

I think she instructed her to send the key to Sloane marked "For Sydney" so Syd would be able to find out what happened to her during those two years without Irina giving herself up. She did this because she wanted to help her daughter. I think Irina probably then extracted her and dropped her off in Hong Kong. (Still can't figure out how Sydney knew who she was though in Hong Kong).

As far as Jack and Irina communicating with each other in that time and then acting "surprised" to find out syd was alive..... can't figure it out. I guess she had to act that way so she wouldn't give herself up.

Am I crazy? I have so many theories running through my head......

 

[crazy spinster]

the only thing i can't understand is that, IF irina knew sydney/julia was alive, then why didn't she tell jack? from what jack's said, they seemed to be working pretty hard together in order to find out where she was. i mean, he even got thrown in prison for working with irina!

i know irina has her own motives, but i can't believe she would be THAT cruel to jack...

 

[Existentialist]

the only thing i can't understand is that, IF irina knew sydney/julia was alive, then why didn't she tell jack? from what jack's said, they seemed to be working pretty hard together in order to find out where she was. i mean, he even got thrown in prison for working with irina!

i know irina has her own motives, but i can't believe she would be THAT cruel to jack...

That's what I'm thinking too.

 

[jems]

the only thing i can't understand is that, IF irina knew sydney/julia was alive, then why didn't she tell jack?  from what jack's said, they seemed to be working pretty hard together in order to find out where she was.  i mean, he even got thrown in prison for working with irina! 

i know irina has her own motives, but i can't believe she would be THAT cruel to jack...

That's what I'm thinking too.

me too!

 

[Manu]

Sloane and her were still working together.

No they weren't. They were just using each other to gather all of the Rambaldi artifacts and their partnership pretty much ended when Sloane found out she would betray him and removed all of the artifacts from the warehouse in Zurich. The opening scene of The Telling was supposed to make that clear but it was cut in editing.

As for Irina not telling Jack that she knew Sydney was alive (because it was obvious that she knew), Sloane could very well be setting her up. Also, their IM conversation was way too short, Jack didn't tell Irina that he knew Sydney was alive either nor did he give her any details about it. I assume that's something they would rather tell each other in person.

Assuming that Sloane isn't setting Irina up... it isn't necessarily a bad thing. If Julia/Sydney was really working with Irina, why the hell did Irina taught her the code so that Julia could send it to Sydney through Sloane of all people? And the weird thing is that Jack learned the code from her (Irina) so he was supposed to be the only one who could break it. If she didn't want Jack to find out, she wouldn't have taught him the code in the first place.

 

[Sarah Vartan]

i know irina has her own motives, but i can't believe she would be THAT cruel to jack... 

I know, right. But Irina is only loyal to herself, so maybe she's not telling Jack for a reason. Who knows, and how are we supposed to find out answers if Irina isn't in the episode?

 

[Azalea]

I think we're at a point in the season right now where it's absolutely impossible to put any of this stuff together, because we simply don't have enough information yet. No matter what we come up with, it'll have to be revised every week as we get more details. In some ways, this is the most exciting part of the season - when everything is still up in the air and we have all these burning questions and crazy theories (not that your theory is crazy...it actually makes a lot of sense).

I just would hate to think that Irina spent two years lying to Jack and deliberately misleading him. I know she's not above lying; it's actually her specialty. But we know how much she truly loves Sydney (and Jack as well, I believe), and I want to think that she wouldn't betray that in such a calculated manner. Unless, of course, she was working toward what she believes is a "higher" good, for Sydney, or perhaps, all three of them. But I don't think her motives will be revealed anytime soon.

 

[verdantheart]

I know everybody's rushing in to give Irina the benefit of the doubt--as usual--so allow me to--as usual--play devil's advocate.

the only thing i can't understand is that, IF irina knew sydney/julia was alive, then why didn't she tell jack?

Easy, if she had reason not to--say her own motives. What if she was behind faking Sydney's death in the first place? Why would she ruin it by telling the person she faked it for that it was faked?

from what jack's said, they seemed to be working pretty hard together in order to find out where she was.  i mean, he even got thrown in prison for working with irina! 

Assuming Irina was behing Sydney's disappearance, how better to keep tabs on Jack's investigation?

i know irina has her own motives, but i can't believe she would be THAT cruel to jack...

Sadly, I can. Past history . . . ::sighs:: It's not impossibly cruel to continually spy and lie to your husband--a man who loves you more than life--over a period of 10 years? To fake your death and leave that man thinking you are dead for another 20? Is that not cruel? I guess not. Is concealing the fact that his supposedly dead daughter is really alive all that much more cruel? Perhaps it is somewhat more cruel, especially considering Sydney is all he has left, but let's admit that she's had a lot of practice treating his heart like an archery target.

Also, their IM conversation was way too short, Jack didn't tell Irina that he knew Sydney was alive either nor did he give her any details about it. I assume that's something they would rather tell each other in person.

Huh? The first thing Jack told Irina once he was out of prison was that Sydney was alive. I can only assume that he couldn't tell anyone (Irina or Vaughn) that she was alive before he was tossed into prison because he had no time. If Irina knew Sydney was alive, IM or not, there is little excuse for her not telling him the truth. She could have encoded into a number sequence if nothing else. Oh, yes, there's that over-arching "there must be some wonderful good reason that she's doing all these seemingly horrible things" theory . . . Sorry, wearing a little thin. I need a fact--an action--something that stands up over a period of time--just one--and not just words or hopes--to back that up. I'm leaving my mind open to that remote possibility, but that possibility is remote.

 

[ALIAS_RULES]

the only thing i can't understand is that, IF irina knew sydney/julia was alive, then why didn't she tell jack? from what jack's said, they seemed to be working pretty hard together in order to find out where she was. i mean, he even got thrown in prison for working with irina!

i know irina has her own motives, but i can't believe she would be THAT cruel to jack...

Yeah same here.

 

[verdantheart]

Well, it's pretty clear she knew somewhere along the line, and I bet it was before Jack knew, with her contacts (assuming she wasn't behind the disappearance or transformation). You explain it to me.
-_-

 

[J.A]

I think the storylines are suffering from Lena Olin's absence. I'm not sure things will ever (or could ever) be explained with her not around. Having said that, I highly doubt she had anything to do with Syd's disappearance but I agree with Manu and vh that it's obvious she knew something would happen with Sydney, which is why she warned her about Sloane and the Prophecy in the finale. "You're the only one who can stop him". Can't wait to see how that will play out.

As for the code and the key, I think we won't know the truth until Irina comes back again. I'm not sure Sloane is setting her up but since he's sort of aware of things in advance, it would be a perfect set up for Sydney to be caught by the NSC and for Sloane to side with Jack and Vaughn to save her, hence gaining Jack and Sydney's trust, which I'm sure will happen sooner or later.

 

[alias:kate_jones]

Ok, i like your theory (freakforalias and others). Maybe Irina wasn't in a position where she could help sydney by telling Jack. and if she did perhaps he could harm syd by trying to help her in his probably forceful way. So maybe the only person she could trust to help sydney was sloane (she knows that he cares for sydney even though she hates it). So she is attempting to "release" syd from her juilia hypnosis but first somehow instructs juilia to send the key and code (she teaches the code to jack without giving herself away) and then sends syd to hong kong. ...???

 

[Chanel]

wait how didi slaone get the key.. in the first place.. im confused / might have missed that part.. howd he get ti

 

[crazy spinster]

i know irina has her own motives, but i can't believe she would be THAT cruel to jack...

Sadly, I can. Past history . . . ::sighs:: It's not impossibly cruel to continually spy and lie to your husband--a man who loves you more than life--over a period of 10 years? To fake your death and leave that man thinking you are dead for another 20? Is that not cruel? I guess not. Is concealing the fact that his supposedly dead daughter is really alive all that much more cruel? Perhaps it is somewhat more cruel, especially considering Sydney is all he has left, but let's admit that she's had a lot of practice treating his heart like an archery target.

i suppose. but it really seemed that her feelings for jack and sydney were genuine last season. of course, she could just be incredibly deceptive, but towards the end of the season, it really seemed that she was "above" all of that. it really seemed that a lot of what she was doing was for sydney's good, even if she had her own twisted idea of what was right or wrong for sydney. which would fit with azalea's idea that maybe irina is working towards a "greater good" for sydney. so maybe in that sense, hiding the information from jack would be better for sydney somehow?

call me a romantic, but i guess that i had just hoped that in those two years (or one year, or however long jack and irina were working together), jack and irina had become close enough that neither one of them would keep such vital information from the other. which is another reason i still don't really like the two years thing - we don't get to see any sort of development in their relationship during that time.

anyway, that electronic voice during jack and irina's IM conversation sounded surprised. :lol:

I think the storylines are suffering from Lena Olin's absence. I'm not sure things will ever (or could ever) be explained with her not around.

i agree. a lousy im conversation isn't enough. we need the real deal here. she was such an integral part of the plot last season that it just seems a bit..empty without her. :mellow:

 

[verdantheart]

i suppose.  but it really seemed that her feelings for jack and sydney were genuine last season. 

Just because she cares for them doesn't mean she isn't above hurting them or using them for her own purposes. (That is, she just might be "evil"; the negative to Jack's positive; the evil-stained-by-good to Jack's good-stained-by-evil.)

of course, she could just be incredibly deceptive, but towards the end of the season, it really seemed that she was "above" all of that.  it really seemed that a lot of what she was doing was for sydney's good, even if she had her own twisted idea of what was right or wrong for sydney.  which would fit with azalea's idea that maybe irina is working towards a "greater good" for sydney. 

There's little evidence that Irina moved "above" all that. She wanted Rambaldi's machine (what happened to that, by the way?) and maneuvered Sydney to do whatever she needed to get it and move the players where she wanted them, not where Sydney needed them. She was not helping Sydney. Certainly if it turns out that she is behind Sydney's transformation into Julia the assassin, that is not motherly, that is Machiavellian.

so maybe in that sense, hiding the information from jack would be better for sydney somehow?   

It's possible--we have the hope that her giving the cipher to both Sydney and Jack is for a good purpose (allowing Sydney to discover the secret of her missing time), but it might be part of an even more intricate and multileveled plan (perhaps transferring Julia--her agent?--from the Covenant's hands to a more secure post hidden within the CIA?). But any of this would be speculation.

call me a romantic, but i guess that i had just hoped that in those two years (or one year, or however long jack and irina were working together), jack and irina had become close enough that neither one of them would keep such vital information from the other. 

Do you really expect Irina to ever change and open up, even to Jack? Dream on, as Depeche Mode would sing. I admire your romanticism, but duplicity is central to her nature. She might self-destruct if she ever were completely honest with anyone. Jack is capable of openness, Irina is not.

anyway, that electronic voice during jack and irina's IM conversation sounded surprised.  :lol: 

You're kidding, right?
:lol:

 

[VHo2413]

the only thing i can't understand is that, IF irina knew sydney/julia was alive, then why didn't she tell jack?  from what jack's said, they seemed to be working pretty hard together in order to find out where she was.  i mean, he even got thrown in prison for working with irina! 

i know irina has her own motives, but i can't believe she would be THAT cruel to jack...

That's what I'm thinking too.

me too!

yea.....me too! heh.

When she and Jack were chatting online, she seemed genuinely (well as genuinely as you can get online) surprised that Sydney was alive.

Ah...you can't think too much with Irina.

Or Alias for that matter.

Jen

 

[verdantheart]

Oh come on!!! Going by appearances with Irina? Have you learned nothing? Even if she is helping, she has something up her sleeve.
:blink:

 

[Alias_Gay]

and has anyone thought of the possibility that maybe Irina and Julia didn't interact ... it is not 100% sure that they did ... evrybody is speculating here ... and not even Sydney is sure she could have been in contact with her ...

and btw ... the way Sloane told Syd about trust ... in a recent date ... it might be that he knew about the transformation ... but he didn't give the key and code to Syd before, because something needed to happen between them, so he could ... and no, he did not de-code it ... he said so himself ...

 

[Barlowe Girl]

OK I have a theory that Sydney has disocciative identity disorder (multiple personality disorder --MPD) and that Julia is an alter personality of hers. One of the most common symptoms of people with MPD is that they put up "amnesic barriers" between their personalitites. Sydney's "missing" two years may very well be one of these amnesic barriers. However, it is also not uncommon for one personality to know of all the other personality's actions and thoughts. So maybe "Julia" was not amnesic to Sydney while Sydney is amnesic to "Julia." This means "Julia" would know of Syd's and Sloane's relationship and would know that Sloane would get that to Sydney!!! Maybe trying to communicate through the "Amnesic barrier"???? Does this make sense at all?

 

[crazy spinster]

while dissociative identity disorder is a perfectly good explanation for the julia/sydney problem, i feel like it's too...obvious and simple for something as complicated as alias. there's gotta be more to it than that.

Oh come on!!! Going by appearances with Irina? Have you learned nothing? Even if she is helping, she has something up her sleeve.

all right. i give. you made good points. it's funny because i was originally part of the irina-is-evil camp. i don't know how i drifted. :lol: